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Projects by members => Projects by members => Burntwire => Topic started by: Burntwire on April 29, 2009, 13:00:07 pm

Title: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 29, 2009, 13:00:07 pm
Just setting up my project no content yet.
I'll start loading content this weekend
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 05:03:55 am
Here we go.  I wound this based on How to wind a vic.   On question I have is the main coil are now insulated by the PVC .1875 spacing.  That's supposed to be 500Volts per mill. That works out to 93,750 volts.  My question is where the wires cross over to go too the next space.  or since it's only 1 wire the real issue is the net of the voltage across the main bundles.

I hand hoped to finish today. However wife and kids wanted to go to the beach.  We had a blast.

I finished the Bifilar and primary all thats left with that is to solder to the post.

I turned the secondary and did a primary bore.  I'll finish boring that tomorrow night.

With luck maybe Wednesday I'll be able to take it for a power up.

Here are some picks.  I'll work on the quality

Raw Stock

Bifilar / primary turned

Bifilar / primary with wire

Secondary just turned



Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 05:10:33 am
gorgeous.

you and john are skilled in the craft.
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 05:15:31 am
Thanks,

Making pretty bobins is the easy part winding them in my only pain.  I know you say by hand however I think I might go mad doing that.  I did a 600 turn torodial last weekend.  Also as I was so far in I solder that broken wire and coated with enamal.  With luck I'll fire this up wednesday or Friday.

Later,
bw
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 05:50:45 am
look forward to seeing it's outputs.

i have no real machine.

i make little contraptions out of coffee cups,extra ss tubes, and toilet paper rolls and i just start counting.

did you make the toroid from the patent?

i had to wind this one by hand with a long thin spool and everything is layered with tape.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/Photo7.jpg (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/Photo7.jpg)

what was the outcome with your toroid coil if it was the one from the patent.....most notably how quickly did it get ho?
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 11:12:11 am
Burntwire,

Very very nice work!
Keep us updated! :)

Best regards
Steve
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 14:12:41 pm
Burntwire,

Very very nice work!
Keep us updated! :)

Best regards
Steve

So happy to have invited Burntwire over .

So Burntwire , how do you like this site ?

Better than waterfuelcell.org ??
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 17:22:02 pm

[/quote]

So happy to have invited Burntwire over .

So Burntwire , how do you like this site ?

Better than waterfuelcell.org ??
[/quote]

I ike the site fine to the point that I donated ;-)

Better than waterfuelcell.org?
Both site offer alot of content for research;  However the audiance seems more serious about things here.  Which I perfer.

BW
Title: VIC and WFC Project May 4th
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 03:11:32 am
Some progress tonight.

Completed secondary bore.

I even managed to get a few turns of 36 AWG on tonight,

400 turn per gap.  When completed it will be 8,000 turns ;-)


Thanks,
Burntwire
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project May 4th
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 03:22:39 am
Some progress tonight.

Completed secondary bore.

I even managed to get a few turns of 36 AWG on tonight,

400 turn per gap.  When completed it will be 8,000 turns ;-)


Thanks,
Burntwire


Wow , Burntwire deserves 3 stars added to his name for working so fast .

I took 1 year to get to the point where you are . Slowly getting there .

Then again , the team is so big now , I sure got alot of friends to make this with me , alot of other people who never show their faces also .

We are legion , and we are coming for ya Stanley Meyers .  :)
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 03:24:02 am
good stuff, how do you like working with plastics on the lathe? sure is messy :)
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project May 4th
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 03:26:57 am

Wow , Burntwire deserves 3 stars added to his name for working so fast .

I took 1 year to get to the point where you are . Slowly getting there .

Then again , the team is so cudly now , I sure got alot of friends to make this with me , alot of other people who never show their faces also .

We are legion , and we are coming for ya Stanley Meyers .  :)


Thanks,

When I get a bug I pretty much go all out on it until I get it or it gets me ;-)

I would stay up later however I have several meets starting tomorrow moring 6am.  So good luck and good night.
BW
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 03:28:00 am
good stuff, how do you like working with plastics on the lathe? sure is messy :)

Sounds like you've been there I'll post a pic of the floor tomorrow you will laugh you a-- off at all the crap.
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 03:34:07 am
i love working with aluminum, however there is not much call for that in the wfc project, i've done some work with different kinds of plastics, some get really stringing and caught up in everything
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2009, 04:20:17 am
No pics tonight but I'll post some tomorrow I made it through 1,800 turns tonight with no broken wire !!!
Also I put a digital counter on my lathe. anyone who is going to turn coils on a lathe I'd would highly reccommend the 29bucks plus a few switches.  Man so much easier not having to keep count.  Without that addition I would have only put on around 900 or so tonight.

later all,
Burntwire
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2009, 05:01:12 am
can you post a picture of your counter on the lathe? i will be winding mine on the lathe, so that would be of interest :)

also what rpm are you using while you wind?

Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2009, 13:06:22 pm
No problem Donaldwcf

I purchased the counter on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/new-DIGITAL-RED-LED-PANEL-COUNT-METER-COUNTER-TOTALIZER_W0QQitemZ260404545061QQcategoryZ73174QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m183QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%252BS%252BIA%26itu%3DIT%252BUA%252BPSS%252BUCC%252BCRS%252BIA%252BUCI%252BSI%252BUS-BWR%26otn%3D8%26ps%3D33

The box I mounted it in is from radio shack

Switch mounted on lathe is part from a microwave I bought from walmart for $50.00 bucks.  I bought the microwave for the transformer and other parts.  Buying the parts seprate were twice as much as the microwave.  ge700 watt

Important Lathe winding tips I've figured out at breaking a few wires
I wind at 80 rmp.
Note:  I hand turn the lathe for the first 5 turns after moving to the next gap
Also I release the belt drive before starting the lathe this allows a gradual pick up in speed less chance of breaking wire.
Wire step up is important also.
I had made a custom bracket mounted on the Lathe however this proved to be too close and didn't work as I intendend. When winding the spools tendend to bounce.
I then moved the spools about 6 feet way from the Lathe mounted them on a ladder.  This is working well the distance allows the feed to go much smoother.  Also I had to add a slight tensioner to the smaller spools to keep the bifilar wraps the same tightness.  First try one gap filled before the others as the wire tension was less on the smaller spool.
Tape each completed gap off trust me.
Burntwire


Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2009, 13:50:50 pm
thanks for the tips

one of the lathes goes 54 rpm at the slowest, i was thinking i would start there, but now I am thinking i should use the other one which has a clutch for a smoother start, and i guess practicing with copper wire would be cheaper than the stainless steel wire... i can't afford to make any mistakes with that wire
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2009, 17:24:51 pm
Dont worry about the wire Burntwire  .

If you run and because you broke too much , I'll just send you another 1/2 free of charge .
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2009, 19:37:53 pm
Dont worry about the wire Burntwire  .

If you run and because you broke too much , I'll just send you another 1/2 free of charge .

Deal  ;D
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 08, 2009, 02:07:34 am
Nice to have the site back up Thanks Steve.
Well good new and bad news
Good news first
Icompleted the bifilar and primary last week
I completed the seconday last night

Good news
Secondary measured out at 1.98kOhms 6,300 turns 36 AWG
Primary around 2 Ohms
Bifilar leg a 0.396 kOhms

Bad News
Bifilar leg b open circuit
After double and triple checking my connections I just unwound the Primary & Bifilars.
Bifilar leg b broke on the third gap  :-[
So I'll try again

More to come.

BW
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 08, 2009, 05:27:45 am
Burntwire,
I sent your 430FR wire Thursday.  I have built this coil and figured out how to balance the inductance in it.  When you wind the stainless steel the mass of your core changes and so does the math for figuring the inductance of the copper secondary and primary inductance.  I don’t know how to adjust the math but I did balance it through trial and error.  My coil is small as I designed it around an available ferrite core. I have 14 ea .0625 wide segments on the chokes and secondary bobbins.  I wound 160 x 2 wraps in each segment for my chokes.  It should have worked out to be 160 wraps for each segment of my secondary but that wasn’t working on my inductance meter.  After adjusting the math for the 5th time I hit the balance.  It took 165 wraps to get only be a few mh off.  I then used the 165 wraps for my primary.  This gives me a 14:1 ratio step-up.  What I wanted to do was have the same inductance in the primary as in each segment of the chokes and secondary and I ended up getting it very close.  I hope this helps you in your wind.  You need to connect both ends of your secondary to the chokes without a diode to read the inductance on each choke and the secondary.  I got this one to balance and you can too.     
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 08, 2009, 16:04:40 pm
Johnbostcik, Thanks for shipping I can't wait! ;-)
Very nice VIC by the way. Have you powered it up yet and looked at the wave forms yet?
I have a question on the Wrap of your chokes. 
You say "160 x 2 wraps in each segment for my chokes. " Do you have each choke in a seprate segment as Dankie mentions? Or each choke sharing the same gap?

Balancing Measurements.
"having the same inductance in the primary as in each segment of the chokes and secondary "
I understand removing the diode. I'll assume this is measure at the point where the WFC would be?


Based on this reading you adjust the winding you primary to match that.  Very cool

I'm currently at total of 6,300 wraps 330 per gap on my secondary
150 wraps on the primary 42:1 ratio

Bw

Title: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 24, 2009, 03:08:27 am
Update May 23rd

Cold Rolled Grain Oriented Core the way to go for Bifilar Chokes. This is a re-post to a reply I made in another thread, however I want to keep my work together.  Getting bubbles with the below configurations using pure water. WFC messured at 230kOhms
5 to 13 milli amps through the WFC

Using the same bobbin with 300 turns per gap (pic 4) of my bifilar yeilded the following Henry readings
AIR
                     0.076 H leg 1
                     0.075 H leg 2
Ferrite
   0.152 H leg 1
   0.150 H leg 2
CRGO
   2.954 H leg 1
   2.933 H leg 2

Now the interesting findings 
Check out the following signal pictures.
Input Voltage 12Volts
Freq. 4.9 KHz

Pic1
Bifilar hooked up with full lenght of both legs

Result:   Normal frequency double and some voltage gain
60Volts p2p with 1.94 A on primary

Pic 2 (Tap2)

Bifilar hooked up with full length of leg one (as Stan shows) and leg two exiting on the last tap of the second leg.  Effectively shortens the second coil by 600 turns.

Result:    
Weird frequency Massive first Voltage spike
2nd and 3rd Pulse much smaller
622 Volts p2p with 0.49 A on Primary
Voltage gain is great in terms of peak to peak differental however I’m not getting the steping yet with hooked up to the WFC.  Readings are fairly stable at 1kv

Pic 3 (Tap 1)
Bifilar hooked up with full length of leg one (as Stan shows) and leg two exiting on the second to last tap of the second leg.  Effectively shortens the second coil by 300 turns.

Results:
Weird frequency another Massive first Voltage spike then a bunch of little spikes until the next pulse

578 Volts p2p with 0.32 A on Primary

Thoughts welcome on the wave forms.
bw


Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 24, 2009, 05:13:32 am
@Burntwire
First off, VERY NICE!! You are doing what Meyer showed in his patent diagrams. If you know what your looking for...he had a "wiper" arm on the negative leg of the bifilar choke. It is common practice to scrape some of the insulation off so a "wiper" arm can be used to effectively bypass turns on the "resonant charging choke".

What your pics show is you tuning in closer and closer to resonance. The huge spikes are not an "initial" spikes (the current dampens the Forward EMF spike)....they are "trailing" spikes, caused by the  back EMF (the voltage is produced by the change in work over the change in time (Delta W/Delta T)....in this case change in work is the changing magnetic field...the change in time is how long it takes the field to collapse....as the off time/collapse becomes closer and closer to zero the voltage spike goes up)...the "bunch of little spikes" are the "ringing" oscillations which are tell-tale signs of resonant oscillations. Once you have hit the point where the large spikes are largest that is your "primary harmonic", there will be many harmonics that produce voltage spikes...but, the primary harmonic is the best one.
Again...great job you are on the right track
However, you will not see voltage step up until you address the charge leakage across the water gap...I suggest prolonged operation to build up layers on the SS tubes...the extra layers will help to get a more capacitor like action...This point is stressed by the Ravi replication that took months to "seed"
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 24, 2009, 14:06:27 pm
VERY nice
primary as in choke or xformer?
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 24, 2009, 14:45:37 pm
VERY nice
primary as in choke or xformer?

Thanks Guys!

Sorry I should have been more clear.

reading above are into Primaray leg of the xformer. 

The choke is averaging between 5mA and 13 mA

Radiant _1 yes you are correct I was reading Stan's tb for the 100'th time last night.  To date I've only been reading the VIC section in great detail. I read section "WFC Hydrogen Gas Management System" last night and read were he coats the tubes with derlin. Page:3-11"

I can't find it in liquid form to coat with so I'm going to remove my tubes today and coat with DEVCON 5 minute epoxy  with a dielectric strength of 490volts/mil

Can't wait need to let this stuff cure for awhile.

bw
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 24, 2009, 15:00:28 pm
The delrin isolation refers to part 72 of fig 3-25, which shows that the outside of the cell is insulated (and inside of the inner tube, was supposedly also insulated, but is not shown).
But perhaps fully coated with delrin could give surprising results; read the tay hee hau patent (somewhere on this board) which can help you choose the correct insulation.

You could try to put a diode on both sides of the choke (like figure 8-11) and see what happens
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 24, 2009, 15:58:41 pm
Burntwire , let me put you in contact with people who made the VIC .

thx for coming here and posting your findings .

It seems like Radiant`s answer has helped you . Thx Radiant

I will also be looking for some sort of coating and will be by your side very soon .

I love those GO vs non GO figures .

How did you get such a high resistance cell , are you using pure lab water ???

Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 24, 2009, 16:29:35 pm
The delrin isolation refers to part 72 of fig 3-25, which shows that the outside of the cell is insulated (and inside of the inner tube, was supposedly also insulated, but is not shown).
But perhaps fully coated with delrin could give surprising results; read the tay hee hau patent (somewhere on this board) which can help you choose the correct insulation.

You could try to put a diode on both sides of the choke (like figure 8-11) and see what happens

I can try thta and see what happens.  However I think this is to stop multiple charging chokes from interfering with each other.  W/o the second diode each choke would discharge into the other and not the WFC. IMHO
br :)
Title: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 24, 2009, 22:04:22 pm
Ok just made a new set of WCF tubes.

I'm going coat these with enamle for a first attempt. I'm not sure how this with hold up under water should be interesting.

bw
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 24, 2009, 23:33:36 pm
There is a replicator named Dr. Scott Cramton who uses Super Corona Dope as an insulator.  Patrick Kelly reports on his progress in his updated chapter10.pdf every so often.

regards,
Andy
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 25, 2009, 11:39:05 am
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter10.pdf
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 25, 2009, 20:31:31 pm
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter10.pdf
Thanks both of you. Interesting reading. I'm stuck waiting for my enamel to dry at the moment. Its rained everyday for the last 2 weeks so the humidity is like 100% I think it will take 4 days for my wfc to dry at this rate.
bw
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 25, 2009, 20:56:25 pm

How did you get such a high resistance cell , are you using pure lab water ???

Dankie,
I’m actually using condensation from my portable a/c.  Think of it as distilled by Mother Nature ;-)  I also us it to re-fill my solar battery bank in addition to my WFC source of water.
bw
Title: VIC and WFC Project Let the seasoning begin
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 26, 2009, 13:25:56 pm
First,
  Thanks for the feed back based on some of your comments.  I now have 1 enamel coated wfc tube and one clean.  Today I'm leaving the unit on 24x7 to see if I can season the uncoated pipes.  They are producing a small amount of gas at the moment. I have everything truned way down since this will be running unattend much of the time.  Does anyone know how long the seasoning process should take?  If not I'll start counting for future reference.

br
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 26, 2009, 15:30:50 pm
Yeah Burnt , let the wfc season begin  :D
Title: Re: VIC and WFC Project
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 14, 2009, 02:59:03 am
Hi all,

I'm back. I last left off with my VIC bubbling away slowly.  Well after much time no change in gas output.  I'm not surprised.   So I took sometime off and did some reading on Resonant Circuits.  I've purchased and read many books on the topic.  (IMHO) By far the best book all around for this topic and many others is the "ALL New Electronics Self - Teaching Guide” If you are like I was and not following all of Stan's math pertaining to the VIC I'd highly recommend it.  Good examples and lots of practice problems with answers. The ISBN is 978-0-470-28961-7.

After reading the book and now understanding what I'm trying to achieve looks like my current component Rf is either 1.1 KHz or 81 Hz.  What's the big difference you ask?  Well when I measure my WFC's capacitance with my AMPROBE 37XR-A it never produces truly steady reading but indicate around .65 uF.  This with my total Inductor inductance of 5.88H for the Bifilar yields a Rf = 81Hz.  When I now calculate the capacitance using Cf=KEoA/d I get 3.49E3 pF which with the same Bifilar yields 1110Hz.
If I bring the frequency down that low I have to back the input voltage way down as the current on the primary rises rapidly.   So what’s next?  I think I'm going to remove the WFC and just work on achiving a good resonance signal will a regular capacitor with a known value.

Thanks again,
bw