Electrolysis => HV and hydroxy => Topic started by: Steve on May 26, 2008, 10:04:28 am
Title: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 26, 2008, 10:04:28 am
Post here your ideas on HV and Hydroxy
br Steve
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 27, 2008, 08:16:30 am
Ive been experimenting lately with compressed air and water mist across a plasma arc at the tip of a spark plug The 120psi pressure and 12kv makes plasma but no GTNT...
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 27, 2008, 09:51:54 am
Very good to hear that you are trying this. As i do not have compressed air here to do those kind of tests! Keep us updated CN!
br Steve
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 27, 2008, 16:52:28 pm
Very good to hear that you are trying this. As i do not have compressed air here to do those kind of tests! Keep us updated CN!
br Steve
Title: HV fracturing video...almost made my me...
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 17, 2008, 11:03:41 am
Hi,
Well, there is always a first for everything. And here are the first bubles of a working HV water fracturing setup.
feature=user
Br Steve
ps sorry for the noice....
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 17, 2008, 18:10:01 pm
Very Very nice!!!
man that is loud... what is making all that noise? is it the cell?
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 17, 2008, 23:12:24 pm
Proof of concept!!!. Try using super corona dope recommende by HMR. It works a lot better. Slowly we are putting the bits and pieces together. The dope has a dielectric strength of 4100V/mil compared to the 500v/mil provided by delrin. The inner tube has to be completely insulated inside and outside.
Liquid tape has DS of 1400V/mil but it did not work for me. Super corona dope worked right away. I will have to buy a gallon of it before the MIB bans it.
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 18, 2008, 00:19:35 am
Proof of concept!!!. Try using super corona dope recommende by HMR. It works a lot better. Slowly we are putting the bits and pieces together. The dope has a dielectric strength of 4100V/mil compared to the 500v/mil provided by delrin. The inner tube has to be completely insulated inside and outside.
Liquid tape has DS of 1400V/mil but it did not work for me. Super corona dope worked right away. I will have to buy a gallon of it before the MIB bans it.
Hahahahaha, very good!
br Steve
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 18, 2008, 01:15:47 am
Those bubbles appear to be massive. How big are they? Are these bubbles comming off your plate cell? Great job. I'd like to know a lot more about what you are doing. I can't place the sound. Thanks.
Well, there are no plates and no tubes....... And the noice was a bonus of youtube.....its not in my original video... Its all in a baby phase. I hope to inform you all soon with more details.
br steve
Title: Re: HV fracturing video...almost made my me...
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 22, 2008, 22:04:44 pm
Well, there is always a first for everything. And here are the first bubles of a working HV water fracturing setup.
feature=user
Br Steve
ps sorry for the noice....
So in theory, you could could hook up multiple cells and not draw more current off the primary of the step up transformer?
Mikemongo
yes, you are right with that conclusion.
br steve
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 23, 2008, 00:17:03 am
steve that looks alot like hydrocars cell and variac in the video is it his video
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 23, 2008, 00:44:39 am
That's great Stevie!
This is the path I have been trying to go down also, it's the only form of making gas that I've ever been interested in.
It's nice to see some results even if their not mine, it does give me some much needed inspiration.
I'm looking forward to some details about your setup. Maybe once we know some details we can help expand this to some massive production (if you haven't already).
Mikemongo
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 23, 2008, 01:04:09 am
dudly, it is hydrocars. you seen that right. But as i said earlier, we actually are investigating why it works. Its all so premature...
br steve
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 23, 2008, 08:30:12 am
Hi stevie. We would appreciate if you give us some info.
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 28, 2008, 05:16:59 am
hi steve, nice to see this ,i would like to know how much gas and is it a tube setup rgds paul
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2008, 02:05:14 am
This thread needed bumped back to the top.
Since there is no tubes or plates, what shape are the wires formed?
I've spent most of the day today wondering and searching the net for what would be better than concentric tubes to shape the electric field.
I downloaded the video off youtube of ddanvos(? spelling) before it was removed and have watched it a lot. That setup was producing massive amounts of bubbles and the interesting thing was what looked like the bubbles weren't just rising to the top, some were circulating.
I think he was using the spark gap for creating high voltage pulses instead of just a straight HV potential.
It also looks like the bubbles come from something surrounding the 2 electrode wires. My belief is this is shaping the high voltage field. The emanating voltage field is somewhat similar in theory to a magnetic field, so I believe it can be shaped.
I don't know how or if I can post the video, it is a flash video and the .flv extension isn't included in the allowed file types for attachments. I will try and see if it works when I post this. It didn't work.
Mikemongo
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2008, 15:13:59 pm
could someone please reupload the video you are talking about? I'd be very interested to see it.
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2008, 21:38:17 pm
Since there is no tubes or plates, what shape are the wires formed?
I've spent most of the day today wondering and searching the net for what would be better than concentric tubes to shape the electric field.
I downloaded the video off youtube of ddanvos(? spelling) before it was removed and have watched it a lot. That setup was producing massive amounts of bubbles and the interesting thing was what looked like the bubbles weren't just rising to the top, some were circulating.
I think he was using the spark gap for creating high voltage pulses instead of just a straight HV potential.
It also looks like the bubbles come from something surrounding the 2 electrode wires. My belief is this is shaping the high voltage field. The emanating voltage field is somewhat similar in theory to a magnetic field, so I believe it can be shaped.
I don't know how or if I can post the video, it is a flash video and the .flv extension isn't included in the allowed file types for attachments. I will try and see if it works when I post this. It didn't work.
Mikemongo
Mike , i added the FLV format, to be uploaded to this forum. At this moment, i allow files of maximum 20mb. Is that enough for your file?
br Steve
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 12, 2008, 02:25:11 am
Thanks for adding the flv format to the attachments Stevie. It's only about 1.5Mb
He didn't give much info in the comments other than it was powered by a neon transformer. He said this was some work from a couple years ago .
Here's the video.
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 12, 2008, 18:24:14 pm
I love the device in the video. Where can we get more information about it so we can build it. It looks like it has great promise.
Fiditti, this is the only info I've seen on this setup.
I downloaded it from youtube before it was removed by its creator. I think he removed it because people were hounding him for info.
In the comments he said it was some older work and wouldn't reveal any details other than it was a neon transformer.
I don't remember for sure if it was this video or one of his other videos, he said something about not revealing details due to a nondisclosure agreement and hoping to make enough money to put his kids through college.
Have ten or more tubes and you'd be able to run a tank. Thanks.
This is why I'm so interested in HV dissociation, there is no current flow through the water and with proper design more "cells" or areas of dissociation can be added with no additional current draw from the power supply. The only drawback is HV is a PIA to work with and this kind of voltage potential really doesn't like to be contained.
I think the HV power supply from a powder coat machine is an ideal source if it can be pulsed. Depending on the brand, they make up to 100KV open circuit voltage, which is the same type of scenario we're looking at. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a source or datasheet on these supplies yet.
If anyone knows of a datasheet or source for these power supplies, please let me know.
I don't know if this type of setup is ideally suited for an automotive application, but it for sure has potential for home heating, running a generator, bbq grill... our imagination is the limit. Winter is just around the corner and our utility bills are going to be ugly.
Mikemongo
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 12, 2008, 23:16:36 pm
Thanks for sharing with me. Do you remember the name of the guy who posted the video? It looks like he's got two separate alternating plazma arcs taking place in the water. I'd sure like to figure out how he's doing this. It's a great little cell with a lot of possibilities.
Now I remember, it's ddanvos68.
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2008, 09:48:18 am
I remember that that turkisch person blew up his whole house with hydrogen and the goverment thought he was a terrorist...:-)
br Steve
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2008, 16:30:31 pm
Well, i do hope so. Tad doesnt respond at all.
br steve
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2008, 00:00:36 am
The Ddanvos68 System appears to be a simple variation of the Aqua Fuel Generator Plans as posted on the JNaudin Web Site. :o
Earlier I typed up a post refuting this, but I decided to watch the video several more times, and now I'm confused again.
It could be an altered version of the bingofuel. The sparks in the video are so erratic, it's hard to tell. The bingofuel video looks like much more UV light coming out. The resolution of this video sucks, especially on my computer at work. It looks like instead of the electrodes being fully immersed in all the water, like the bingofuel videos, maybe there's only a small amount of water exposed to the HV sparking. Look closely , the bubbles are coming out of one area. I don't know if this video can be upped in resolution, but it might help.
It's kinda hard to describe unless you watch the video a bunch of times. There's a lot to see if you watch it multiple times and do some deep thinking.
Mikemongo
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 11, 2008, 03:16:38 am
This is Tad. What can I do for you? It looks like there are now quite a few folks that are replicating the Old Meyer system like I did, but with different HV schemes. Looks like it can be done many ways. I just hope these other systems were more reliable than my experiment showed.
This guy is pretty interesting. He seems pretty high strung to be messing with the Meyer stuff but none the less = )
http://www.waterforfuel.com/product4.html
P.S. HV is not 120-500VDC, High voltage that Stan had stated is 600V-10KV. Stan told me he could electrolyze one gallon of water per minute using 10KV of potential. I was only using 1200VDC.
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 11, 2008, 09:47:09 am
This is Tad. What can I do for you? It looks like there are now quite a few folks that are replicating the Old Meyer system like I did, but with different HV schemes. Looks like it can be done many ways. I just hope these other systems were more reliable than my experiment showed.
This guy is pretty interesting. He seems pretty high strung to be messing with the Meyer stuff but none the less = )
http://www.waterforfuel.com/product4.html
P.S. HV is not 120-500VDC, High voltage that Stan had stated is 600V-10KV. Stan told me he could electrolyze one gallon of water per minute using 10KV of potential. I was only using 1200VDC.
Hi Tad,
Welcome to Ionizationx.com! I hoped for this to happen after the emails from Fiditti and myself to you. You are as far as i know the whole Waterfuelcell world the only on that ever duplicated Stans work proper. As you can see on the forum, we have some guys here who are good researchers, but what we miss is the final link. Nobody has done what you reported some years ago. We would like to replicate your setup and see if we also can achieve the 12watts / 3 ltrs production figures. I know you told that the circuit is pretty unstable, but we have then a point from where we can start developing it.
What we would like from you is a description of what the variables are and which components you used for that. I know its a lot to ask.....but would it help if i added a "please"?
br Steve Administrator Ionizationx
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 11, 2008, 10:06:12 am
Nice and exciting to have you here Tad . Hope to see you sharing your replication with us.
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 11, 2008, 13:24:55 pm
Ok Tad,
This is what you wrote about your setup:
Quote
1. Pulsing circuit or power supply capable of producing 600+ Volts @ 20Khz+ @ 100uA+. My system was a simple, off the shelf inverter with an input of 12VDC and an output of 1200VAC @ 20Khz @ 1mA. I then took this circuit and modified the circuit to run at 42.5-43.0Khz. This was an off-the- shelf inverter sold by Fry's electronics. It is a neon power supply with a very small bobbin core transformer. Anyone can buy this circuit or one just like it and modify it to run within the specs I gave you. The hard part is obtaining resonance which takes years of electronics expertise to do. 2. A small electrolysis cell with the ability to vary distance between conductors. 3. 2 - Chokes, one adjustable, one fixed. 4. One high voltage diode to go in-line with the cathode of the power supply output. 5. Inductance Meter, Capacitance meter, frequency counter/Oscilloscope, and high voltage probe.
The key to the Meyer process is resonance, and without resonance the system produces no gas. At 12 watts you see why no gas is produced without resonance. This is a standard LC resonant circuit in which you MUST (!) match Capacitive reactance with Inductive reactance. This then creates an LC resonant circuit in which the two legs of the power supply match in frequency exactly. A Ham calc make the calculation of resonance easy once you know the capacitance of the cell and the frequency you are driving it at.
Once you have your inductance calculated you then buy the proper chokes that fall within the inductance range needed. The adjustable one needs (obviously) to be tunable within a small range, so that when the cell temperature changes and causes the capacitance of the cell to change, then the inductance can also be changed to keep the cell in resonance. If your cell has the ability to vary distance between conductors, then you simply change the distance and thus change the capacitance of the cell rather than changing the inductance. You must vary one or the other though. I have found since then that the capacitance of the cell can be changed and works just as well as the inductors being adjusted. You don't use ANY electrolyte, you don't want ANY amperage at all, only voltage @ resonance.
REPEAT, YOU DON'T NEED ANY CURRENT FLOW, ONLY VOLTAGE! What I found frustrating is that the cell temperature would change and the system would stop making gas. In order to keep the system making gas you constantly have to keep the cell in resonance, and thus you really need the system to be controlled by a processor, that constantly checks frequency on both legs and then adjusts inductance to keep the cell in resonance. This is why Stanley move to the other patents where the spark plus type of electrolysis chamber was used instead of a large cell. + With the cell running at 1200Volts @ 1mA @ 42.8Khz I found I could make 200LP/H of gas. Do the math and you will find that this is impossible given our current understanding of electrolysis. If you scale this equation up you will find that you can make over 20,000LP/H of gas for 1200Watts. This is easily enough to run most any Internal combustion engine. The only problem has been keeping the cell in tune. An alternator will easily produce 3000 watts of power, so this is easily enough to power the car on this system alone. This is how the Volkswagen Buggy was running around on water only. The car has to wait a minute or two before he stored enough gas to run the car, then once it was started and running it would make enough gas to run the car at up to 60MPH. I never saw this car run personally, but I have two people that went to two showings and both said it worked and they verified there was no gasoline on board.
I have here a nice small off-the- shelf inverter sold by Fry's electronics. without load it produces 7kv See picture! I do have a HV probe for my scope as well. And i have tons of Stainless tubes and plates. So i can do whatever i can here.
1.: Is it 42khz a must? 2.: what type of chokes must it be? Please size and turns and wire thickness. 3.: Did you hookup the diode up to the choke, like Stan did? Actually you made a half rectification of the AC voltage from the inverter trafo? 4.: What gapspace between inductors? 5.: any insulation needed for inductors? Why didnt you get a deadshort condition between the 2 legs of the trafo? 6.: I understand LC. But are the inductorplates/tubes the C? And if so, how do you calculate the C. If i hookup my C meter i measure a leaking capacitor. So at the end i cannot say exactly what the capacitance is...How did you measure yours? 7.: Is the end goal a charging from chokes to cell and back. Is that the resonance we are looking for? A DC resonance system?
Hope you want to provide us with this info.
br Steve
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 11, 2008, 14:06:56 pm
Tad , where did you hear about the frequency needs to be 42 khz ?
i thought this was the larmor frequency and it was a variable depending on the fields strenght ?
google : larmor frequency
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 11, 2008, 14:53:54 pm
Tad, I've read your post from overunity.com over and over and over.....
Is your setup a parallel LC circuit?
The reason I ask, is because you emphasize inductive and capacitive reactance must match.
In my experience when they match in a series circuit you get maximum power transferal at the resonate frequency. Whereas in a parallel circuit it acts like a bandstop filter which should allow maximum voltage across the water capacitor.
I've wanted to ask this question, along with some of the others listed for a long time, but I don't like to pester people.
Stevie and or Hydrocar, are you ever going to give the details on your HV experiment? Been waiting patiently.
Mikemongo
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 11, 2008, 20:24:00 pm
Hey tad , like Stevie i am also wondering how you calculate the capacitance of a tap water capacitor... I also measured my tap water but it was 0 capacitance.... a leaking capacitor... how exactly did you calculate yours ?
Did you add a coating so that you could use regular water ? I wanna make this work with regular tap water ...
Also i am wondering why you chose 48khz ???
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 11, 2008, 21:23:10 pm
Hey tad , like Stevie i am also wondering how you calculate the capacitance of a tap water capacitor... I also had it measured but it was 0 capacitance.... a leaking capacitor... how exactly did you calculate yours ?
Also i am wondering why you chose 48khz ???
Also , i was wondering if you could post a basic picture of your connection or photo or your setup ... maybe take a picture that doesnt reveal much but gives us an idea ???
if you have a multimeter you can measure it's capacitance......easy as that.
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 11, 2008, 21:56:28 pm
TAD sorry for the annoying voice in the background...
So you say you need to adjust the inductance ? I love what 2curious has done with the sliding core i think is better than having a slider on the negative choke ... what do you think of this idea ?
How do you adjust your inductance what kind of slider ?
Can we see what you did to the negative choke plz? Maybe take a pic of the construction and hide all other details ?...
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 12, 2008, 18:51:27 pm
Tad, you seem like your quite a few steps ahead of everyone else!
Why change the inductance though?
Why not just use fixed inductors and change the frequency using electronics like you mentioned. I have heard of several people who have replicated the following circuit of Stan's and they have claimed that it worked. From what I understand the circuit is used for resonant frequency locking.
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 13, 2008, 22:45:30 pm
You there Unclefester ???
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 14, 2008, 08:57:04 am
I think the 42.8KHz is from keely literature which mention water vaporize when physically pulsed at that frequency. It is mentioned in Dale Ponds video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9125003792513982191&ei=lIAeSerEOIeAwgPEncT3BQ&q=%22dale+pond%22 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5430570751600484561&ei=lIAeSerEOIeAwgPEncT3BQ&q=%22dale+pond%22
I wonder if what everyone trying to achieve is 85.6KHz DC sinewave (sine wave but never going trough zero)? At the second part Dale pond mention that when Keely mention about 42.8KHz it could be 85.6KHz.
Base from the video, I assume that we can get greater energy by using double frequency, for example 85.6KHz, 171.2KHz, 342.4KHz, ...
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 14, 2008, 17:26:00 pm
I think the 42.8KHz is from keely literature which mention water vaporize when physically pulsed at that frequency. It is mentioned in Dale Ponds video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9125003792513982191&ei=lIAeSerEOIeAwgPEncT3BQ&q=%22dale+pond%22 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5430570751600484561&ei=lIAeSerEOIeAwgPEncT3BQ&q=%22dale+pond%22
I wonder if what everyone trying to achieve is 85.6KHz DC sinewave (sine wave but never going trough zero)? At the second part Dale pond mention that when Keely mention about 42.8KHz it could be 85.6KHz.
Base from the video, I assume that we can get greater energy by using double frequency, for example 85.6KHz, 171.2KHz, 342.4KHz, ...
Ive seen somebody who tried this with just a straight pwm pulsed dc , it did nothing...
What kind of pulse ? how much voltage ?
I'm sure alot of people tried this with their dave lawtons setup...
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 14, 2008, 18:59:37 pm
Ok he does mention 42,8 khz.... but he then says he didnt find anything special about it ... I'm sure of it was true we would have tons of reports about this...
Maybe Unclefester could explain more ?
Unclefester you there ???
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 15, 2008, 02:52:44 am
I'd guess the energy used was all vibrational .. Keely used acoustic vibrational energy, why not try acoustic/ultrasonic frequencies.
I've heard the physical / vibrational frequency of water is within khz range.
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 16, 2008, 04:11:19 am
I think if we want to replicate John Keely work we need to use sine wave. Or if we want to replicate Tesla / David Gray work we need to use perfect square wave. High voltage should increase the effect. But I guess it's hard thing to achieve.
Would the circuit I post bellow work for making DC sinewave? edit: Just realize that it should have been L3 that has to have more voltage, maybe twice L2 does.
Dale Pond mention Keely may use physical movement to vaporize water instead of sound. But other literature mention that it use sound: "A means of acoustically dissociating water, instantly exploding 3 drops to produce pressures up to 29,000 pounds per square inch"
http://www.frank.germano.com/svp.htm
Newer literature mention that we can have high efficiency water electrolysis if we use very high temperature. It mention that water electrolysis at nuclear reactor heat waste is very efiicient, using H2SO4 and temperature of 800 degree celcius.
If we can dissociating water at room temperature with vibration, I think we could get more efficient electrolysis. I hope it wont instantly burn like salt water microwave (kanzius?) http://www.rustumroy.com/Scans/Observations%20of%20polarized%20MRI%20vol%2012%20is%201.pdf
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 05, 2008, 01:05:08 am
Tad,
I've tried to contact you via email and PM for several weeks now, I would like to replicate your experiments from the late 90's ... I've searched in vain through sci.energy.hydrogen news groups for your posts....
Can you please provide details for your experiment?
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2008, 04:06:44 am
The setup (remembering now 12 years ago) was an inverter I had setup for variable frequency and could only be tuned over a small range. I used adjustable chokes on cathode and anode sides. There is a major problem with this cell setup in that it is leaky as stated by Meyer (which I did not understand at the time). Stan told me "resistance is the key". What he meant by that was that the cell voltage will reach zero too quickly and thus the cell will not stay charged. Adding resistance across the secondary portion of the circuit (cell side) allows less leakage and allows the cell to stay charged and producing H2. If you simply use a brute force method with lots of current at the higher voltages it defeats the purpose of the whole process since we want very tiny amounts of current and only high voltages.
Of course all of this has now been solved by JLN and others and it is a simple matter of following their experiments. I am no longer working on this system for the same reason Meyer dropped it. It is a touchy, frustrating process in which constant control of the pulse parameters MUST be kept or else the cell stops producing gas, and ven then there are much better processes to use. Others have found the same problems and dropped it entirely. It is better to use a plasma and break a water vapor up as it enters the intake of the engine.
The setup below shows a much better way to break water, even though it is not exactly what Stan was doing with the "Water Plug".
I hope that helps a little. Sorry I have not been around much, I have been trying to feed my family and work on more advanced experiments on the weekends. This leaves me literally NO TIME to respond, or help any further than I have. In fact, one of the reasons I came back to look at some posts was that Dankie was calling me a fraud on multiple experimentation sites. Even though he does not know me nor was he there, nor had he seen the results of these crude, early experiments. Even though my wife told me not to respond and simply let it go, I felt the need to at least defend myself if he was going to be as ignorant about these posts of his. So I will clarify anything I can for you but I will not respond any further if I am going to be continuously a fraud or fake.
Tad
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2008, 04:46:23 am
ted your description is very vauge
what was you approimate
choke size wire size core material tube size Length,Height,Diameter and number of tubes
also using that small sine wave generator with the laminated transformer at 42.8khz was their alot of distortion in the output signal
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2008, 04:58:24 am
The setup (remembering now 12 years ago) was an inverter I had setup for variable frequency and could only be tuned over a small range. I used adjustable chokes on cathode and anode sides. There is a major problem with this cell setup in that it is leaky as stated by Meyer (which I did not understand at the time). Stan told me "resistance is the key". What he meant by that was that the cell voltage will reach zero too quickly and thus the cell will not stay charged. Adding resistance across the secondary portion of the circuit (cell side) allows less leakage and allows the cell to stay charged and producing H2. If you simply use a brute force method with lots of current at the higher voltages it defeats the purpose of the whole process since we want very tiny amounts of current and only high voltages.
Of course all of this has now been solved by JLN and others and it is a simple matter of following their experiments. I am no longer working on this system for the same reason Meyer dropped it. It is a touchy, frustrating process in which constant control of the pulse parameters MUST be kept or else the cell stops producing gas, and ven then there are much better processes to use. Others have found the same problems and dropped it entirely. It is better to use a plasma and break a water vapor up as it enters the intake of the engine.
The setup below shows a much better way to break water, even though it is not exactly what Stan was doing with the "Water Plug".
I hope that helps a little. Sorry I have not been around much, I have been trying to feed my family and work on more advanced experiments on the weekends. This leaves me literally NO TIME to respond, or help any further than I have. In fact, one of the reasons I came back to look at some posts was that Dankie was calling me a fraud on multiple experimentation sites. Even though he does not know me nor was he there, nor had he seen the results of these crude, early experiments. Even though my wife told me not to respond and simply let it go, I felt the need to at least defend myself if he was going to be as ignorant about these posts of his. So I will clarify anything I can for you but I will not respond any further if I am going to be continuously a fraud or fake.
Tad
Thank you for sharing ...
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2008, 17:28:54 pm
choke size wire size core material tube size Length,Height,Diameter and number of tubes
also using that small sine wave generator with the laminated transformer at 42.8khz was their alot of distortion in the output signal
choke size - don't remember, it's been 12 years you need to use an LC resonance calc to find it for your cell wire size - don't remember it's been 12 years core material - pre-made inverter, so it was probably a ferrox cube (high frequency ferrite) as usual tube size Length,Height,Diameter - attaching picture, it's all I have and number of tubes - see attached picture
This experiment was a few pieces cobbled together since I had very little electronics skills back then, and minimal machining capability. It took 6 months to see any results, and over a year before I ended up with 13.33 Liters per watt/per hour, and that was with Stan Meyers help (asking questions through my friend John Weider). There have been three different experiments that are current and could be followed. If you want to cobble a bunch of junk together like I did, that's ok, I will pull out all the parts and give you the part numbers and values, but JLN and others have much much better setups. Although this process alone is not worth playing with if you are trying to get a small engine to run solely on water. It requires processor controls like I have built many times now for different processes, Processor setup (http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=An6KLPlm%2F%2FpOiL4i7gDHZA%3D%3D) and even then it's not the right process for running vehicles solely on water. Folks, this is why Meyer dropped the process. Do you want a model A or a modern mustang GT? ::)
Tell me if you need anything else. I will devote hours to this if it will help you, although I could show you much better setups to follow, including JLN's:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/wfc/index.htm
P.S. Don't even think about attempting this experiment without at least a few years electronics experience and a good scope, LCR meter, DVM's, and lots of time.
Tad
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2008, 17:54:50 pm
tad part numbers and values would be helpfull
according to your blueprint you ran a 1/4 gap with a 1 inch od tube and a 3/8 bar am i correct in what i read
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2008, 18:06:42 pm
Thanks Tad for writing some answers here. You know as well as I that there are many people proclaiming stuff that isnt true. I ll guess that Dankie had a bad feeling because of those people. I understand from your email and your posting that you are not the biggest fan of that HV setup. But, many here are willing to find that out too.
Thanks for telling about the need for resistance. I read you telling that you did that experiment 12 years ago and that details are difficult to remember.
Am i right, if i resume your details here:
Pulsing 1200v DC or higher some coils a resistor in line with wfc Resonance between coils and WFC? Or is it resonance in the coils?
About JNL, he said he used insulated tubes. Did you use insulated tubes?
br steve
Ps.
I also do not always listen the mrs... ;)
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2008, 19:03:32 pm
@Tad - Thanks for sharing, again thank you...
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2008, 20:12:15 pm
according to your blueprint you ran a 1/4 gap with a 1 inch od tube and a 3/8 bar am i correct in what i read
That must have been the wrong drawing. I used 1mm gap as per Stan's instructions.
1. Secondary inductance needs to be taken into account also when looking for resonance.
2. Bifilar wound choke like JLN's is best because they are magnetically coupled.
3. Power supply must be capable of enough current to get the process started. Mine only gave a few milliamperes and it was tough to overcome the loss of the cell leaking down after every pulse. It may be possible to add a few picofarad cap in parallel with the cell in order to store up a small charge to keep the cell from leaking down to zero after each pulse. Small inverters like I used are very low on current and will make major headaches.
4. Probably better to use a flyback core (ferrite) and wind it with the appropriate number of turns in order to maximize current and have a wide frequency capabilty. Mine only had a narrow range and thus was difficult to tune to the frequency given by the resonance calc. Snubbers may be needed in order to not fry your mosfets or which ever transistor you are using. Once the effect is established, the pulse width can be narrowed in order to reduce current and thereby increase efficiency.
5. True Meyer process requires at least 500 to 600 volts to see the real effect. Don't try running a high current 12VDC system and then call it Meyer process, it is NOT.
6. Visual output can be deceiving, use a jug filled with water upside down in a 5 gallon can and measure using that method at least. I used a Cole Parmer gas flow meter on my experiments since it was the most accurate way I could measure real output.
7. When temperature changes, you can expect the cell to stop making gas since it will change the capacitance of the cell and throw off your resonance calculations. A processor is the only way I can find to easily control this tuning issue.
8. Cell can use many different types of water according to Stan, but I only used distilled water. No chemicals (sodium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide, etc) in the cell! No electrolyte!
9. Don't attach your scope probes to the cell directly, it will be seeing wide voltage swings due to resonance. In later experiments I built a 100 Megaohm resistor to use in series with my probes in order to not fry my Tektronics scope.
I will try and dig up the original components and take pictures of them. Although they are all available from common electronics stores and the HV inverters are cheap over at Information unlimited's site. Although you will have very limited control over frequency when you use these types of power supplies. Best to use the power supplies I have been building for my plasma experiments I have been contracted to perform (already posted this video). These use a PIC16F876 processor and use two of the PWM outputs (CCP1 and CCP2) for pulsing high voltage step up transformers. It also uses a snubber network since the 600 volt mosfets I am using will not handle the transients on the primary.
Tad
http://www.amazing1.com/hv-hf-power-supplies.htm
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2008, 20:37:20 pm
Thanks Tad for writing some answers here. You know as well as I that there are many people proclaiming stuff that isnt true. I ll guess that Dankie had a bad feeling because of those people. I understand from your email and your posting that you are not the biggest fan of that HV setup. But, many here are willing to find that out too.
Thanks for telling about the need for resistance. I read you telling that you did that experiment 12 years ago and that details are difficult to remember.
Am i right, if i resume your details here:
Pulsing 1200v DC or higher some coils a resistor in line with wfc Resonance between coils and WFC? Or is it resonance in the coils?
About JNL, he said he used insulated tubes. Did you use insulated tubes?
br steve
Ps.
I also do not always listen the mrs... ;)
My tubes were not insulated but that would help greatly in power consumption and capacitance would not float all over the place.
It's not that I am not a fan of HV electrolysis, it's that like Meyer I understand why it is not best to use a submerged in water type of scheme. It is a very poor way to get engine running on water. It requires cumbersome tanks and filtered water, and complex electronic setups which can cause many headaches. A much much better process is to use a water vapor and break it up using less than the energy of a submerged cell and yet without any constant tuning required. Do you see my point here? Does anyone see my point on this aspect?
The details you mentioned are what I used, which is almost identical to the JLN setup although I had little control over current and frequency since I had no way to vary duty cycle of the input signal driving the transistor. I also did not use a bifilar wound choke, I used off the shelf variable chokes which also had limited range of changing inductance, it was a real pain. I calculated resonance based on the secondary inductance, the chokes, and the cell capacitance, but even then it took alot of tuning to find the right frequency for this cell and the calculations ended up being off by over 5Khz. I would venture to say that you could not pay me enough money to reproduce that original experiment without allowing a processor controlled scheme, it was truly a nightmare of tuning and going over and over all the calculations. It's obvious why Stan went with a different scheme in the latest patents.
Tad
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2008, 21:03:23 pm
tad i see your point why you see it is a useless process to go thru and am well aware of all the negative issues you described but as im sure you are aware most of meyers designs were orginated from the learning curve as he experimented he came across all the issue you described plus more and then changed his designs accordingly to compensate as you are now doing but for most people who are unaware of these issue they have to start some where this is a good spot to start and work their way up from to acheive the next level of building/learning
thanks james
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 07, 2008, 00:37:01 am
I think i would have it tattooed on my back with Egyptian letters or some shit ...
Not if it was 12 years ago and not something you wanted to remember. Not if it was useless to me. And also not useful to anyone else, all these parameters change with every cell, even if they are the same size there is going to be fluctuations in water type etc. YOU CANNOT USE THE SAME PARAMETERS FOR MULTIPLE CELLS, ALL MUST BE RECALCULATED! You are not going to be running engines on this type of setup. The cell size alone to run a car would take up the trunk and passenger seats, and would quit working about every 100 miles without computer controls. Here is a picture of this type of attempt which still turned out to not be big enough for a 6 cyl vehicle:
(http://i35.tinypic.com/2vt3wk9.jpg)
(http://i36.tinypic.com/r7vvyw.jpg)
That's 150 tubes!
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 07, 2008, 01:36:28 am
P.S. The above tubes (150 of them) are about 2 foot tall each. These guys were going to compete in the vehicle X-Prize and have millions of dollars in backing. I was helping them try to increase output from the cell so the vehicle would run entirely on water instead of a mix of gasoline and H2.
Tad
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 07, 2008, 01:55:05 am
HAHAHA , thats a huge cell !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I believe you now Unclefester . Dam that shit is huge ...
Thats like 1000$ of stainless right there
Arent you supposed to have inductive reactance bigger than capacitive reactance ?
Let me go delete the post i made @ overunity
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 07, 2008, 03:29:54 am
I believe you now Unclefester . Dam that shit is huge ...
Thats like 1000$ of stainless right there
Arent you supposed to have inductive reactance bigger than capacitive reactance ?
Let me go delete the post i made @ overunity
The power supply for that unit is very large. If capacitance increases (such as this case) then inductance must be lowered or frequency must be lowered in order to keep resonance. They had over 5000 american dollars in that unit in machining costs and stainless. They found some interesting effects and used them to create a new HHO booster unit that is more efficient than any other on the market and of course uses no electrolyte = ) I am told they will be selling them beginning next year. They would probably not be happy for me posting these devices but I doubt they will be checking this forum out anyway.
Use the calc below to play with parameters in order to understand the relations between L, C, and Freq
Anyway, this is some of the research going on privately regarding these devices, but most have gone to plasma units since they are cheaper, simpler and more reliable. I was paid to do the electronics and perform some of the research along these lines. However since the economy is waning the money has started to dry up and investors are less apt to throw money around now.
Tad
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 07, 2008, 03:42:41 am
Ok, after seeing 150 tubes in parallel with such great length i am assuming you guy's used very clean water? I have seen the effect with 6 tubes and tap water at around the resonate freq of the chokes, But by no way can i understand 150 parallel tubes with that length.
It must have been a very efficient device, and you and i both know efficiency doesn't mean dirt.
I respect the way you chose to present the truth,, But i am curious, Did you stop work on these setups and just drop it and move on with your life, Or did you take a different direction...
Br, Brian, The guy that doesn't try to get something from nothing such as stan claims, But the guy that tries to Take it to the atomic level bypassing the need for high amounts of gas as stan also claims!
This unit used steam distilled and then deionized water. Current on start up was a problem because of the massive surface area. Once it got running the current would drop down and not burn the power supply out, but it was touchy. Tap water would have burnt the power supply out very quickly because it would have wanted to pass large amounts of current through the mineral content.
I stopped work on the submerged types of cells for reasons previously stated, but I continue work on small engines with plasma reformation of water and or emulsified fuels (this is what my investor desires so I have to stick along these lines). This is for modification of gen sets of both diesel and gasoline units and uses both plasma reformation before intake and also plasma spark systems to enhance the effect further.
I look at it as either using nature, or using brute force. Nature, just as Bedini has stated will buck you and fight you the whole way, unless you go along with how nature wants us to use energy, and it is all transients. The things we learned to snub out in school because they burn electronics out are the exact things giving us energy on the cheap. This is the key to Gray, Tesla, Meyer, Bedini, Adams and others. It is the same effect seen across all devices and therein is where all of these devices are connected. Just as Tesla stated, the solution to all the worlds energy problems rely on high voltage at very short pulse duration, it is the key to obtaining all the energy we could ever need.
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 07, 2008, 05:17:28 am
Plasma reformation allows us to create hydrogen from any source, whether it be a hydrocarbon, or water. It uses very tiny particles of water or fuels, and since these particles are so small, the electric field can easily break them apart. Unlike a submerged cell where we have liquid in mass quantity it takes large amounts of energy to break them up compared to a plasma converting a very light particle. You see the larger the field surrounding a particle (energy density per molecule) the easier it is to break the particle up. We don't have this luxury in a submerged cell because we have a highly loaded power supply which is trying to break up a high density liquid.
I suppose a good analogy is a rock crusher. The more rocks you throw in at once, the more the engine has to work on order to break those rocks up into smaller ones. The less rocks you throw into the jaws, the less work has to be performed at one time. Plasma physics is a complex science and the equations I cannot comprehend (I am not schooled in physics nor complex mathematics) but it is easy enough to adjust the field to be strong enough to make hydrogen on demand from vapor.
This is what Stan was doing with the water injector, it took a very small amount of water and placed it into an intense, but low power field. It would create enough energy just from one droplet to force a piston in an ICE at least once, which is all we need. The lighter the particle (I.E. the better atomized) the easier it is to break it into it's constituent components (atoms) which some then recombine into the molecules they are attracted to combine with. This means we can use a fraction of the power it would normally require in a submerged electrolysis cell and create far more hydrogen on demand as it enters the intake of the engine, regardless of whether it is a turbine combustor or piston, etc.
We can easily create a fine vapor or atomized stream by ultrasonics, or heat to create steam (as Meyer did). And we can also control the flow of vapor and the voltage level and current of the field breaking the vapor. So now we have ideal conditions that are extremely simple to build versus the electronics required for a submerged cell. We can vary the vapor volume by a simple butterfly valve or needle valve so we have full control of throttle using only one simple, reliable component. It also means we have no large tank but only a small (i.e. 1/2" diameter) nozzle which the vapor flows through. If we need more volume of hydrogen we simply add more nozzles and apply the same power supply input to them and thereby multiply our fuel input on demand. The government labs are working on this at a feverish pace. LANL and others are wanting to use these techniques on fuels because they can increase mileage by 50 percent or more and reduce emissions by 90 percent. When using a water vapor along with this setup then we can improve those stats even further. On diesels we use a pump to force the vapor into the intake under pressure thereby dealing with the vacuum issues with those engines. You can also pull the vapor/hydrogen stream into the engine via the compressor on a turbo and eliminate the need for any other type of pump.
My investor is of course wanting the "holy grail" of fuels which is of course running straight distilled water into the plasma stream to drive an engine. We require TDC or later timing in piston engines because hydrogen has such a rapid flame rate it will try and force the piston down before it reaches top dead center which causes the engine to run poorly and sometimes not at all. Plasma ignition is obtained by a simple capacitive discharge ignition running in the 700 to 1000 volts DC. When the arc from the stock ignition is created the capacitor discharges it's current across the established gap and we have a large plasma ball created inside the combustion chamber, which further breaks any molecules down into hydrogen rich streams and then immediately fires the mixture. So we have a slightly higher load on the alternator, but it plays us back in power and the ability to run (mostly) water and only a tiny amount of gasoline is needed. Soon there will not be any need for fuels to get the engine running and we can pre-charge the intake with hydrogen rich gas to start and run. We are not there yet but we have only been working on this scheme for about three months and it already shows good promise.
Hope that helps,
Tad
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 07, 2008, 20:44:57 pm
I just finished working with Bob Krupa on the firestorm plugs. This whole scheme was to make a large amount of plasma from a spark plug only. This means we need more energy since we are working with a straight hydrocarbon fuel which has not been well atomized (current day fuel injection is quite poor at atomization), so we ended up needing at least one joule of energy and our bench tests ran upwards of 3 joules to get the job done.
We found that the higher the voltage, the better plasma ball we could develop, even if we lower the capacitance, we can still get good plasma because of the voltages involved. We were using 1200 volt rated SCR's to dump the charge which worked well as long as the transients did not get out of hand and falsely trip the gate. In this case you would get a misfire, sometimes a double pulse, sometimes it would fuse the gate and destroy the SCR (this normally did not happen unless we were running tens of joules of energy at higher voltages, 1000+). I have video of some destructive tests we performed on these plugs at 100+ joules and it showed that this much energy should never be needed.
But if we are already working with a hydrogen rich stream before it enters the combustion chamber then we don't need nearly the amount of plasma from the plug we would otherwise require, since we are simply trying to break up any left over vapor that was not already processed and increase the efficiency further. A constant 10 amperes from the alternator should get the job done, or 1 ampere from the generator head if it is a stationary generator making single phase AC. The only reason to go any higher than this input is if your fuel stream has not already been processed as stated above.
One of the contenders in the vehicle X-Prize I believe is using this system. They are claiming 120 miles per gallon on a ford 5.0 litre V-8 and intend on winning the X-Prize based on this system. They also have some other unique systems for increasing mileage even further but will not divulge what they are until they have patented them after the contest has ended.
Tad
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 07, 2008, 22:35:25 pm
The old Meyer tests were as follow. I remember well on input and output because I knew I had to be accurate.
Input to the inverter was only 1.2 amperes @ 12vdc, thus we have 14.4 watts total input. Output showed 200 LPH until the cell cooled down and had to be re-tuned. Any higher current on the input of the inverter at it would fry the primary of the step-up trans, so I had to keep input low and work with resistance on the secondary side. Worst case scenario is that the input would bounce around 12 to 15 watts max. It was easy to measure the input with a simple current shunt so it had to be accurate to probably 10 percent I would imagine.
I am not claiming anything however, I am here to help because you guys asked for help. I was giving you a background of my experiments and how they might help you in your efforts. If I was claiming results and then having to argue back and forth I would not be here, except to defend myself against Dankie's claim of fraud or deception.
I feel as though I have given you all the information that I could possibly divulge without getting me in too much trouble with the investors and people I have helped, although I have probably said a bit more than they would have wanted me to. There are thousands of private funded experiments going on all over the planet and almost all will never divulge their data. Many of these experiments do not need nor want to ask any questions because of privacy and also they usually do not need any more data other than the Meyer and other patents. A decent amount of electronics experience and lots of time in the lab are all anyone needs for duplicating the early Meyer process. If you understand Ohm's law and a little bit about electrolysis and resonance, then any of these experiments can be duplicated.
Beyond that I am no longer working on the old Meyer process for reasons previously stated and have not worked on it except to give advice in over 10 years. There are much simpler, and more productive systems to spend my time on, especially if they are funded projects. These things take time and money, and if you don't have an abundance of either then all you can do are the simple reproductions which hold no value commercially.
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 08, 2008, 00:25:09 am
Well, the same cell built by Stan would have been much higher output, and probably had computer controls for tuning. Output should only be limited by the voltage, surface area, and how much water can pass between the electrodes to flush out the gas. Stan told me he could break one gallon of water per minute at 10KV, which would mean tens of thousands of liters per minute if my calculations are correct. But yet again, it would be better still to use that 10KV @ microamperes of current to break a vapor.
Also remember that regardless of whether it is Orthohydrogen or Parahydrogen we need upwards of 10,000 LPH just to idle a 2 liter 4 cylinder engine, even though we can have up to a 75:1 air/fuel ratio.
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 08, 2008, 06:41:14 am
fester it only take me about 5 to 6 liter per minute to idle a 5.5 hp briggs that is 206 cc going from that number it should only take me 35 to 42 liters to idle my 1.4 / 1.5 liter honda civic should only be about 3000lph
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 08, 2008, 18:34:29 pm
I see your point. I'm not sure why but somehow you can get engines to run on lesser amounts than modern science states. I've idled a 360CI V-8 on 200 lph for 30 seconds before it went to lean to run, but I don't totally understand why since it should not have even run more than 10 seconds at that output even with some pressure developed on he cell before hand.
I have to get back to work so I can feed my family over the next month or two. If there is anything else you need you can reach me at h2opowered at cox dot net, although as I stated before I have very limited time, these last few posts were a rare exception.
Tad
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 18, 2009, 18:12:16 pm
Tesla Igniting surface of Water with High Frequency http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EBZ81N2kX8&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EBZ81N2kX8&NR=1)
I think this shows very crude how meyer's system will work. finetuning it will give constant flames
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 18, 2009, 18:30:49 pm
Tesla Igniting surface of Water with High Frequency http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EBZ81N2kX8&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EBZ81N2kX8&NR=1)
I think this shows very crude how meyer's system will work. finetuning it will give constant flames
Alan,
This video is amazing! The flames are incredible. Its hydrogen! The amount is incredible too, for just 120watts... Do you have more info on this?
Steve
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 18, 2009, 18:51:31 pm
Too bad no more info. Only thing I know is high voltage, high frequency, I think HF spikes [mhz/ghz?], but LF repetition rate [khz] created by transients.
I think the same can be accomplished with a stungun, which nowadays approaches 1MV I wonder what happens when the frequency can be fine tuned, guess meyer did exactly that: easy tunable teslacoil by altering pulse rate.
The disruptive discharge of a capacitor through a sparkgap allows such natural oscillations without pulling more power from the source when the coil is shorted, all energy is delivered by the cap. this is what i understand from richieburnett site about teslacoils.
I know, blablabla but this is what I think is happening. guess the same may happen with the hairpin circuit when tuning is possible - no hho occured when a lamp on the hairpin was put into water, tuning the sparkgap by quenching may help, with 2 concetric tubes and no lamp.
the coil that is used in the video:
NR=1#
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 08, 2010, 05:03:00 am
Not sure what happened to the date on the last few posts, anyhow wanted to add some info.
here is a link for air to water ionization - this is related to a single lightning strike, not several discharges like the above video: , http://analogengineering.com/lightning/surface.html
Tad,
Your insite to steam is one I have been working towards for awhile now also, Instead of expanding water 1800x steam is already 1600x there so the expansion is only needed 200x more.
Steam: has more energy than water, has less chemicals, has a lower dielectric constant, has a lower density, etc...
All which point in favor of spliting into H and O with voltage fields.
On the automotive X deal you are working on some pointers:
1-Add a massive Ozone generator to the intake, improvements on fuel by 7 to 10% (seen a patent on this after I done the chemistry math - patent backed my findings. Although I should say I backed the patent findings since it was first, but I didn't know that at the time).
2- If you are looking for most efficiency add exhaust heat to the intake, you will loose HP. due to air density losses, but increase the miles per gallon. (I have been thinking of having a link cable tied to the gas pedel - full throttle lets in the cold air, less throttle lets in the hot air, heat exchanger with exhaust pipe)
If you get the investers interested try going with ionized intake air instead of Ozone - not sure if that would improve more than ozone.
I have more ideas on the subject but don't want to bore you with them.
Title: Re: HV and hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 23, 2012, 23:21:12 pm
Sorry to necro such an old thread. Just checking in to see how everyone was getting along with their test setups.