Author Topic: Different kind of VIC Circuit  (Read 16150 times)

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2011, 04:47:22 am »
Same setup as above only 40 turns secondary.

Primary drew 14 amps at 15 volts, so I shut it off.

Primary drew 7.6 amps at 10 volts, so I did some short runs, under 20 seconds.

primary and secondary cap both showed about 28 volts each.

Secondary current into the fuel cell was 0.048.

Frequency was about 1.1khz.

No visible gas production.

I am missing something in the parallel tank circuit - should be massive amp circulation in the tank, and little amp consumption from the source.

Well I didn't blow anything up yet so time to call it a night.

I will try the 640 turn secondary tomorrow with 7 amp draw in the primary.  Also try baking soda before switching back the secondary.

« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 05:25:18 am by warj1990 »

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2011, 16:56:17 pm »
New day new idea.

I have the primary tank as 40 turns and 0.1uf cap.

I have the secondary tank as 40 turns and 0.1uf cap.

I removed the water system completely to test the resonance of the system and it works.  Current draw is 0.13 amps at 10 volts, increases as the voltage goes up.

On turning off the variac it continues to resonate for about 1/2 second.

So for this system to work with the fuel cell I need the most conductive water possible.

How much KOH (or better electrolyte) can I use?

I need maximum conductivity in the water for this system to work, long electrodes, small spacing, lots of electrolyte.

Photos:
1, 3 meters.  Left shows input current to driver (o.13 amps), Middle shows current on secondary (0.45 amps), Right shows freq. 13.71 khz
2, Shows input voltage of Variac 10 volts.
3, Shows X former, bottom trace of driver circuit.
4, Shows higher current draw and output, variac turned up - same as photo 1.

This shows about 3x output current vs input current, seems to match the PIE voltage increase driving the system.

I think fine tuning the inductance will drive the primary current lower and secondary higher.

Exciting morning for me

« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 17:25:00 pm by warj1990 »

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2011, 21:56:17 pm »
With highly conductive water, (50% instant power drain cleaner) I am seeing gas production.

I had to raise the voltage to 30 to get 2.5 amps in the secondary, however 1.9 amps in the primary.

Not looking good again, for power in vs power out.  But the secondary is flowing more amps than the primary.

Photo 1, Top production view

Photo 2, Side production view

Photo 3, Three meters, Input amps, primary volts at cap, secondary volts.

Photo 4, Driver current (1.99 amps), Secondary current (2.54 amps)  About 30 volts input at variac.

Photo 5, System turned down Driver current, Secondary current.  Reduced spread between primary and secondary.

Photo 6, New X former.  4 turns 17 awg wire for each section.

I need to find a way to bring up the production with this system.  For 30 volts input at 2 amps - that will drive a lot of cells and produce a lot more gas than what I am getting.  I am adding KOH and NaOH so a series brute force cell looks better than this setup as far a gas production.

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2011, 00:35:55 am »
I have tinkered with this enough to get the following:

Input (driver) 45 volts @ 3 amps. Volts measured at variac.

Output (xformer) 150 volts (at cap 0.4 uf) @ 7.5 amps (dc into cell).

The problem remains: A series cell with 3 volts per cell would have 15 cells.

15 cells @ 3 amps = total 45 amp gas production.

The question now is,  Does the 150 volts play a roll in the amp draw to the cell, or can I reduce this and increase current?

Secondly Why is it still drawing so much power from the primary supply? This is parallel resonance (or at least an attempt).

Edit:

Photos added:

Photo 1,   Left driver input current, Center cell current, Right cell voltage (at cap.)

Photo 2, 45 Volts input tot driver at variac.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2011, 02:39:27 am by warj1990 »

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2011, 00:46:43 am »
had me a "Du a" moment.

45 volts x 3 amps = 135 watts input.

150 volts x 7.5 amps = 1125 watts output.

Figure that one out.

Since the water is so conductive I need separate cells to form a series cell with the output.

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2011, 01:03:50 am »
had me a "Du a" moment.

45 volts x 3 amps = 135 watts input.

150 volts x 7.5 amps = 1125 watts output.

Figure that one out.

Since the water is so conductive I need separate cells to form a series cell with the output.

Thats a nice result, WJ.
I remember me and Sebosfato also made such setup.
You are correct having a lot of power running in LC on the secondairy.
Becarefull with that, btw.

My results at that time was that
power consumption was exact what the cell was pulling.

The primairy will fill the powerloss in the secondairy LC, made by the cell....
You can compare the difference with a simple basic electrolysis setup of your tubes with the variac.

Keep us updated on your project, Warj...
I am still curious about your progress.

Steve

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2011, 02:24:49 am »
Thanks Steve.

I will see about looking over the projects section and find your work.

I tried the 640 turn coil and no results on gas production.  My best setup is the latest.

I am going to build more tube arrays in the future to test series setups with this.

I am using IRFP250N Mosfets for drivers, so the voltage limit is 200 volts.  I am finding at 160 volts the mosfets are shorting out.

Well at least I am jumping from 3.5 amps to 15 amps in the primary.  The driver is still working fine.  I also checked the secondary amp draw during this event.  The current remains in the primary.  No change to the cell.

I have some better drivers laying around here, 600 volts 60 amps, 1200 volts 7 amps.  I was hoping to keep the primary voltage low, but may need to swap out for bench testing.

I think the higher voltage is not allowing the Mosfet to shutoff correctly - thereby "shorting" the primary to ground.

It makes sense that the primary will need to makeup the losses in the circuit - or the tank would run forever.  I do have Silver wire (non coated) I am going to try on the secondary and primary to see how much that helps.

Edit: one last note the frequency of the latest Xformer was 44.xxx khz.

I will keep you guys updated, look forward to any comments.

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2011, 09:29:38 am »
Its all about getting a high Q.
A coil with litz wire would work better...

Steve