Author Topic: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?  (Read 14095 times)

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Hi
Ive seen chemical reaction explained with sodium hydroxide where sodium molecule rips H+ from water molecule leaving OH- etc

but what is happening at the + and - plates when there is no electrolyte only water ?

Yull Brown and George Wiseman get monatomic and diatomic gases so theres another reaction there also ... BUT they use electrolyte

If Stan Meyer  was generating gas , was it monatomic or diatomic or both and what was the reaction at the plates ?
If electrons were stripped from the water molecule, then thats high current flow into a conductor , theres only 2 plates .

H2O <> H + OH ?    ..... or  H2 + 2OH ?

there has to be exchange some where , the water molecule has to have a reason to let go a part of itself

1. Input = water
2. process = ANY invention utilised , either electrolysis or NON electrolysis ,HV ,LV , hf , Lf , AC , DC ,chem reaction ....etc
3. out put = gas , either monatomic or diatomic

in order to get from 1 to 3 there is a process .   voltage , current and frequency dont explain it , there has to be a reason for water to turn to a gas , it has to give up its bond as a reaction to an action . If an electron is released then thats current flow

self iniozation is similar example to what Im asking , except theres TWO conductive plates in a cell .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-ionization_of_water



« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 01:05:09 am by massive »

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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2015, 19:54:47 pm »
Meyer had different theories at various times.  In one patent he said electrons revert to the H and all product gasses remain neutral.  Another time he said electrons migrate to the positive electrode.  If this is the true case, that's why there's a pause between the voltage pulses.  During this pause, electrons go to the plate and neutralize it's charge.  This happens faster than the potential build up from each single pulse.  This does not produce a current in the external circuit.

It's hard to know what the product gasses actually are, without spectroscopic analysis.  For all we know, CO2 may be playing a role, possibly even forming a synthetic compound together with the H.

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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2015, 23:05:45 pm »

even if there was no extracted current , the capacitor/cell has one pos+ plate and 1 neg - plate with excess electrons, so the coulomb charge of x amount of free ectrons from the water would have to equal 1/2 in order to equalize the plates when pulse is off.
but then the neg- plate would have to dump 1/2 its electrons into the water
but then equalization by itself is discharge/short

if it were a case of electrons in exchange for H and O atoms it would be avogardo numbers and be monatomic

I just looked up...
 "dissociation is a process by which a molecule separates into ions ,it may also be called ionization"
"the ability to conduct electricity is based on the ionic make up of a substance"
"the more ions a substance contains the better it will conduct"

at the moment Im looking into sodium hydroxide chem reaction and gonna REMOVE the sodium from equation and consider hydronium in the self ionization theory
they say there is small x amount of deuterium naturally in water , maybe parts of water can be catalyst idk lol

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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2015, 00:49:50 am »
Meyer vic is meant to restrict the current to keep it straight physical reaction.. the exchange happens all inside the resonant cavity... nothing get ionized.. in my view the molecules simply stop to attract each other when very charged... so hydrogen electrons jump out of oxygen orbit.. you see? no ionization at all... for the electrical polarization process... there are no missing or extra electrons...  yet... you only get that point with the resonant compounding action when the out coming gas is striped of electrons which by collision upon other molecules there split them by collision (maybe is not the right name i can't remember now the correct terminology) something like electron detachment ... ) substituting one electron of the molecule ejecting one hydrogen atom and leaving the molecule (charged) unstable so the next rising electric fields cycle got to break it.. with the electron extraction circuit than you get a net charge so molecules come out with electrical charge...like wise a current flowing in a wire the gas flowing in a tube would generate a magnetic field... since is net charged.. 


i learned all this in an optative course in the university at the center for nuclear research course called chemistry of radiations...


you have than monoatomic hydrogen and oxygen that subsequently forms diatomic molecules liberating heat and coming out as a bubble...

sodium hydroxide is not able to electro plate to the electrode so it ionize another molecule and stay in the reaction..

the point is how to charge the water molecules? till the point where this happens?

« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 07:33:05 am by sebosfato »

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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2015, 02:03:41 am »
Natural water - not distilled or de ionized - contains a variety of ions.  There's even some amount of H2O2, or peroxide ions.  However, these ions don't have a 'vapor pressure' in the sence that removing them causes more to appear, maintaining some kind of balance.  The pressence of these ions is statistical; a certain amount of ions will be present after a certain, long enough, period of time.  Formation of spontaneous ions is not the key to Meyer's system.  He claimed that incrementally moving the electrons away from the valance band regions requires less energy than a normal process.  And I tend to agree with him.  This is the basis of his system's heightened efficiency, at the water spliting stage.  I read about one test using pulses at 1.1 MHz which resulted in 96 percent less energy requirement.

"you have than monoatomic hydrogen and oxygen that subsequently forms diatomic molecules liberating heat and coming out as a bubble... " "the point is how to charge the water molecules? till the point where this happens?"

Stan said that the water molecules act as "micro capacitors" in the circuit.  As the surrounding plates are charged, this places a charge on the micro capacitors.  This is a non electron charge, which is related to pure potential.  Pure potential is produced by radiant energy coming from a pulsating static charge.  Or by a complex field which equates to static energy.  A positive potential is an absence of electrons.

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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2015, 14:18:35 pm »
Natural water - not distilled or de ionized - contains a variety of ions.  There's even some amount of H2O2, or peroxide ions.  However, these ions don't have a 'vapor pressure' in the sence that removing them causes more to appear, maintaining some kind of balance.  The pressence of these ions is statistical; a certain amount of ions will be present after a certain, long enough, period of time.  Formation of spontaneous ions is not the key to Meyer's system.  He claimed that incrementally moving the electrons away from the valance band regions requires less energy than a normal process.  And I tend to agree with him.  This is the basis of his system's heightened efficiency, at the water spliting stage.  I read about one test using pulses at 1.1 MHz which resulted in 96 percent less energy requirement.

"you have than monoatomic hydrogen and oxygen that subsequently forms diatomic molecules liberating heat and coming out as a bubble... " "the point is how to charge the water molecules? till the point where this happens?"

Stan said that the water molecules act as "micro capacitors" in the circuit.  As the surrounding plates are charged, this places a charge on the micro capacitors.  This is a non electron charge, which is related to pure potential.  Pure potential is produced by radiant energy coming from a pulsating static charge.  Or by a complex field which equates to static energy.  A positive potential is an absence of electrons.

Meyer actually talks about using voltage as potential energy allowing efficiency at least over 10000% from the magnitude of his claims... this mean not a more efficient process, this mean 180 degree from that...its straight energy amplification... or if you will extraction from the voltage potential...

i don't want to confuse you.. sorry..

i believe this is achieve thru a process of applying voltage fields to the water.. restricting the current to the milliampere range..

this way according to stan water molecules gets a charged and subsequently in the process the covalent attraction force is switched off...

he asks how much energy does it take to turn off a switch?

how much energy is it required for an electron to just jump a band gap?



   

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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2015, 17:39:31 pm »
The beauty of Meyer's system is that it takes very little energy to turn off the switch.

Covanent bonds are maintained through an exchange of virtual photons, as shown by the Nobel Prize winning Feynman diagram.  Shielding the covalent bond requires a higher order energy than is involved with maintaining the bond.  A photon has two components, so the shielding field must have at least four components.  Whittaker's equations show that a static potential can be decomposed, mathematically, into two bidirectional waves, at least one of which contains a harmonic.  Static is a higher order energy than a normal photon.

Once a molecule is elongated enough to allow a static potential to penetrate the molecule, the presence of that higher order energy, in the form of static potential, will instantly switch off the bond.  No ionization is required for this to happen, and any ionization which does occur will be coincidental.

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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2015, 23:02:56 pm »

besides any process water goes through , water still has the natural property to self ionize itself

2 H20 <> OH-  +  H3O+

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-ionization_of_water

so either an applied process over rides this natural property OR
self ionization is an integral part of the applied process OR
the process is the natural property Amplified

working with nature instead of against ,  just a thought