### Author Topic: Charles Law of thermodynamics  (Read 13592 times)

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##### Re: Charles Law of thermodynamics
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2009, 00:44:30 am »
Then you lose power.

True and exactly what i want it to do....

AHA!!

I think I see your plan Steve.
If you have a HHO supply under pressure; heating it (with waste heat) will increase the pressure/volume.
If you have enough pressure/volume the piston will be driven down on the intakestroke by said pressure!
This will give you an extra small power stroke!
It will also overfill the cylinder, like a turbo, compensating for volumetric efficiency losses on the original power stroke and negating all my previous arguements.
Heating the H2 will also change more of it into Monatomic H.
This gives a further increase in volume and increases the energy given off by igniting it.

Very Clever!
Or is it me being very clever!??

The fact that H has a higher octane rating (does not pre-ignite at higher compression ratios or in hotter conbustion chambers) means that ther should be no issues with knock.
You may have to beaf of your cooling though.

There is no way, at this point, of producing enough HHO onboard, but there is no reason why one could not set up a wind, solar  and waste/p**p powered cell at home.
http://www.green-trust.org/wordpress/
There are cells out there that produce HHO and pressurise it at the same time; easily found by Googling.
The tech to fill gass bottles is commercially available.

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• Posts: 68
##### Re: Charles Law of thermodynamics
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2009, 01:02:00 am »
Then you lose power.

True and exactly what i want it to do....

AHA!!

I think I see your plan Steve.
If you have a HHO supply under pressure; heating it (with waste heat) will increase the pressure/volume.
If you have enough pressure/volume the piston will be driven down on the intakestroke by said pressure!
This will give you an extra small power stroke!
It will also overfill the cylinder, like a turbo, compensating for volumetric efficiency losses on the original power stroke and negating all my previous arguements.
Heating the H2 will also change more of it into Monatomic H.
This gives a further increase in volume and increases the energy given off by igniting it.

Very Clever!
Or is it me being very clever!??

The fact that H has a higher octane rating (does not pre-ignite at higher compression ratios or in hotter conbustion chambers) means that ther should be no issues with knock.
You may have to beaf of your cooling though.

There is no way, at this point, of producing enough HHO onboard, but there is no reason why one could not set up a wind, solar  and waste/p**p powered cell at home.
http://www.green-trust.org/wordpress/
There are cells out there that produce HHO and pressurise it at the same time; easily found by Googling.
The tech to fill gass bottles is commercially available.

That would be a great initiative to do that , HHO meyer style is more of an hobby for the already smart and energy independant guy .

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• Posts: 4547
##### Re: Charles Law of thermodynamics
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2009, 10:39:02 am »
Then you lose power.

True and exactly what i want it to do....

AHA!!

I think I see your plan Steve.
If you have a HHO supply under pressure; heating it (with waste heat) will increase the pressure/volume.
If you have enough pressure/volume the piston will be driven down on the intakestroke by said pressure!
This will give you an extra small power stroke!
It will also overfill the cylinder, like a turbo, compensating for volumetric efficiency losses on the original power stroke and negating all my previous arguements.
Heating the H2 will also change more of it into Monatomic H.
This gives a further increase in volume and increases the energy given off by igniting it.

Very Clever!
Or is it me being very clever!??

The fact that H has a higher octane rating (does not pre-ignite at higher compression ratios or in hotter conbustion chambers) means that ther should be no issues with knock.
You may have to beaf of your cooling though.

There is no way, at this point, of producing enough HHO onboard, but there is no reason why one could not set up a wind, solar  and waste/p**p powered cell at home.
http://www.green-trust.org/wordpress/
There are cells out there that produce HHO and pressurise it at the same time; easily found by Googling.
The tech to fill gass bottles is commercially available.

Hi Logic,

Yes you are a clever person. Its good thinking  you are doing.
For me this heating option is to get better volume filling in the cylinder. Maybe its doing others things as wel....

Steve

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• Posts: 84
##### Re: Charles Law of thermodynamics
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2009, 19:40:07 pm »
[Hi Logic,

Yes you are a clever person. Its good thinking  you are doing.
For me this heating option is to get better volume filling in the cylinder. Maybe its doing others things as wel....

Steve

Like displace the 78% Nitrogen, that is in air, that is useless to the combustion process?
The combining of N with O produces NOx in an endothermic reaction.
ie: it robs power from the engine to produce greenhouse gasses!

There was a big discussion on Wouter's forum about not being able to compress HHO because it will blow up or something?
BB was a big contributer to the thread.

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• Posts: 4547
##### Re: Charles Law of thermodynamics
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2009, 22:35:32 pm »
We need to do 3 things:
1. Slow down burnrate and/or explosion intensity of Hydrogen/oxygen
2. We need enough airflow in the engine (which is an airpump)
3. not pollute more

As i have told before, you have to have your wfc under pressure if you power an engine with it.
Stan was doing that. And i am doing that. Why? Flashback problems.
As long as you have a bottle of hydrogen under pressure, you will not have a flashback into it.

Stan worked with 13 PSI and i do that also.
So, what happens when you have 1 litre HHO under 13 PSI by 20 degree celcius or 68 degree Fahrenheit
and you release it into the ambient air of 20/68 degrees?
The Volume of 1 litre expands

13 psi by 20/68 degrees became 1 litre   T stays the same
Pressure drops 100% to zero psi so volume grows 100% to 2 litres of HHO

So, now you have 2 litres HHO with a different density of molecules which is very explosive and burns like a maniac.
Lets asume that HHO has 2.5 times power  then petrol as Stan says.
Why not making the density of the gas 2.5 less?
What do we need? Less pressure or higher gas temperature.
Hmmmmmm.....Lets go for the higher gas temperature....Why? Well, look at the cars that run on wood. Their gas is pretty hot,
before it goes into the car.
What temp we need? Well, lets see. I ll guess around 60 degrees celcius or 140 F.
Thats 2.5 times hotter then ambient air.
So volume also grows 2.5 times....= 5 litres HHO going into yr engine out of 1 litre HHO at 13 PSI of 2 litre HHO under zero PSI.
4 litres at zero PSI = 10 litres at 60/140 degrees C/F

Well, thats enough for today

Steve

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##### Re: Charles Law of thermodynamics
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2009, 23:17:29 pm »
Lets say you have a gas uner 13.7 psi, Lets say the Gas in the container is Also hot.

So, we have a hot gas, and is now being released threw a metering device from a 13.7 pressure.

Imagine having a Hose comming from the outlet of the fuel cell valve(Metering device) from the cell container.

Imagine that you light the end of the hose threw a pinhole, Torch. It Flashes Back! Suction is created in this hose, You also shut the torch end off imediatly.

You have just sent a hot, high pressure gas into a line now containing a vacuum at a lower temp threw a metering device, This is the Correct ingrediant for converting gas to liquide.

If one has high pressure on one side and its warm, And suction on the other, and there is a drop in pressure and tempature there at that point, you now have micro liquid drops of hydrogen.

I've seen pure liquid hydrogen. Understand what you're fooling with.

Just my comment.