### Author Topic: Back to Basics  (Read 3049 times)

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##### Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2022, 17:14:58 pm »
Quote
he even needed stainless steel enameled wire with high resistance in order to match the transformer to the injectors

This is not the only important property of this wire (430fr), and most people are ignoring something VERY important about that.

Remember, when you use resistive element, the power is dissipated on it...

Calculate the power loss on that resistance and tell me what do you see...

• Jr. member
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##### Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2022, 17:32:37 pm »
Quote
he even needed stainless steel enameled wire with high resistance in order to match the transformer to the injectors

This is not the only important property of this wire (430fr), and most people are ignoring something VERY important about that.

Remember, when you use resistive element, the power is dissipated on it...

Calculate the power loss on that resistance and tell me what do you see...

You are right, it takes little power to convert some microdroplets of water into hydrogen, thats the beauty of the small injectors, and, according to stan, you'll end up ionizing the hydrogen as a "side effect" after the water dissociation. The injector electrode resistance needs to be equal to the coils resistance to ensure max power transfer. When you make the electrodes small, the resistance goes up, it means that the ratio V/I increases and you have more voltage than current.
You cant do the same with some 4 inch long cells, it takes much more power and much more current, mine has about 100ohms resistance. If you put 10kV in a 100ohms resistance, you'll end up with 100A. If you put 10kV in a 10kohms resistance, you'll end up with 1A.

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##### Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2022, 00:50:43 am »
Well, I made this test over and over. From DC to 1GHz, it acts as a resistor, with voltage in the cell beign Rcell x Icell. No voltage/current returning when switching off signal, only resistance (voltage and current are linear functions). The cell can hold aprox. 1,5[V] before electrolysis begin and thats all.

As Stan said:
Quote
Water now becomes part of the Voltage Intensifier Circuit in the form of "resistance" between electrical ground and pulsefrequency positive-potential ... helping to prevent electron flow within the pulsing circuit (AA) of Figure 1-1.

You are correct Uziao

IF the chokes are made so that the electrons can not flow at a high rate through the positive choke and hit the forward diode, but rather get trapped in the choke, the positive tube will polarize.(just like Stan states). It also has to be on a floating ground so the current is limited. (isolation xfmr).

The reason your not getting more than 1.5v on the cell is because the electrons are whizzing right through the positive plate into the choke so fast a positive charge can not build up on the plate.
For example,  The gap of the cell and the conductivity of the water determine how much voltage will build up on the cell. A .060 gap with rain water will start making gas somewhere around 24volts. Tap water would  be around 14v. (straight across the cell) A tighter gap would also give less voltage.  This is all dependent on how the chokes are made.

Go to 1:04 in the video

In my tests, with a .060 gap and rain water, The pulse train would charge up to the 24v level. Meaning the whole pulse train floats positive. From there with continued pulsing, it would step up to 90v. When pulsing is stopped. The pulse train will drop fast to the 24v level then very slowly down. (the gas output is still a function of the current in the circuit)

So, once the threshold level is met we get electron crossover from ground and electrolysis. If this was not the case the cell would keep charging higher and higher (like he states).

He does a lot of mixing different processes with his patents etc to cover all the bases for patent infringement. What he describes applies to water vapor in the water injector because it is in a different state. If this is applied to that, then it all makes sense. The voltage and resistance go sky high. However, it is also possible to do it on a small scale like I did, but your not going to be making boat loads of gas.

• Jr. member
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##### Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2022, 03:17:26 am »
Well, I made this test over and over. From DC to 1GHz, it acts as a resistor, with voltage in the cell beign Rcell x Icell. No voltage/current returning when switching off signal, only resistance (voltage and current are linear functions). The cell can hold aprox. 1,5[V] before electrolysis begin and thats all.

As Stan said:
Quote
Water now becomes part of the Voltage Intensifier Circuit in the form of "resistance" between electrical ground and pulsefrequency positive-potential ... helping to prevent electron flow within the pulsing circuit (AA) of Figure 1-1.

You are correct Uziao

IF the chokes are made so that the electrons can not flow at a high rate through the positive choke and hit the forward diode, but rather get trapped in the choke, the positive tube will polarize.(just like Stan states). It also has to be on a floating ground so the current is limited. (isolation xfmr).

The reason your not getting more than 1.5v on the cell is because the electrons are whizzing right through the positive plate into the choke so fast a positive charge can not build up on the plate.
For example,  The gap of the cell and the conductivity of the water determine how much voltage will build up on the cell. A .060 gap with rain water will start making gas somewhere around 24volts. Tap water would  be around 14v. (straight across the cell) A tighter gap would also give less voltage.  This is all dependent on how the chokes are made.

Go to 1:04 in the video

In my tests, with a .060 gap and rain water, The pulse train would charge up to the 24v level. Meaning the whole pulse train floats positive. From there with continued pulsing, it would step up to 90v. When pulsing is stopped. The pulse train will drop fast to the 24v level then very slowly down. (the gas output is still a function of the current in the circuit)

So, once the threshold level is met we get electron crossover from ground and electrolysis. If this was not the case the cell would keep charging higher and higher (like he states).

He does a lot of mixing different processes with his patents etc to cover all the bases for patent infringement. What he describes applies to water vapor in the water injector because it is in a different state. If this is applied to that, then it all makes sense. The voltage and resistance go sky high. However, it is also possible to do it on a small scale like I did, but your not going to be making boat loads of gas.

When you change the water type and cell gap, you only change the resistance of the cell, therefore you need more voltage to push the same current thru it, if you put distilled water the 1.5v can climb up to 50v before electrolysis start. You'll always have the voltage in phase with current, never high voltage only polarization, you cant change it with chokes, resonance or whatsoever. When you polarize a resistor, current flows thru it. The real capacitor has a dielectric that does not allow DC current across it, the water capactor does not have this, therefore DC current will always flow thru it, like a resistor. The water capactior will never show a phase shift between current and voltage, even in its "polarization" phase. The result is both in phase, always, as in a resistor.

Measure your current with a carbon resistor, along with the voltage across the cell, and post the results to us. I did this many times, and the voltage waveform is identical to the current, V=R.I, linear function, more voltage = more current and never the opposite, thats impossible in a resistor, no matter how the chokes are. When you have bigger chokes, you have low voltage in the cell because they restrict all the current in the circuit. I have a Tektronix TPS 2014, so I can see both current and voltage directly in the same circuit without the need of isolation, this way the measurements are more accurate.

• Jr. member
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##### Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2022, 06:34:42 am »
Yes, the current and voltage are always in phase. I just made it work the way he said it was supposed to. That's what I found. I kind of thought of it as a resistive inductor because the metal tubes polarized and stored a charge. I was able to disconnect the circuit and put a LED across the cell and keep it lit for about 20 seconds as the charge bled off the cell. That is only the tubes not the circuit.Stan talks about changing the structure of the metal.

That's not how I made the chokes.

• Jr. member
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##### Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2022, 11:23:50 am »
Yes, the current and voltage are always in phase. I just made it work the way he said it was supposed to. That's what I found. I kind of thought of it as a resistive inductor because the metal tubes polarized and stored a charge. I was able to disconnect the circuit and put a LED across the cell and keep it lit for about 20 seconds as the charge bled off the cell. That is only the tubes not the circuit.Stan talks about changing the structure of the metal.

That's not how I made the chokes.

You'll never polarize and crack water with current and voltage in phase, you'll only do electrolysis, when you increase the voltage, more and more current will flow. I put my "water capacitor" inside a resonance lc circuit, with 300V input, my pulse peaks at 1000V at resonance, I have much gas, so much that it pops out of the top of the container, but the current peaks are insane, pure electrolysis. It could be a more efficient type, but nothing about low current and high voltage.

If you want to keep the LED on for longer, you need to replace the plates material. Instead of two plates of SS, use one SS and other made of aluminum and change water for sulfuric acid. This is a well known technology, called "the battery".

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##### Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2022, 12:10:25 pm »
Something interesting happens when you apply voltage across a "water capacitor":
As you rise the voltage, without restricting it, the resistance drops, in a non-linear behaviour, Andija Puharich call it a non-linear load.

• Jr. member
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##### Re: Back to Basics
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2022, 06:02:16 am »
This is my water cell. Seems to act like a capacitor to me.