Author Topic: Water Molecule Capacitance (far out thinking...)  (Read 7407 times)

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Re: Water Molecule Capacitance (far out thinking...)
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2012, 16:38:01 pm »
To increase the capacitance, you can do what people call mysteriously "conditioning" your cell. This means operate your cell reversing periodically the dc supply, alternating between caustic and acidic baths. This is not for achieving oxide coating like they say... What will happen is that you will corrode the stainless steel to increase the surface area.

There is no oxide remain. Except the oxygen barrier from the passivation layer witch forms soon or later on stainless steel, derived from the chromium and nickel alloying proprieties.

the 400 series has iron in it.

think about...

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Re: Water Molecule Capacitance (far out thinking...)
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2012, 17:52:55 pm »
The oxidized elements (nickel and chromium) create a dielectric layer on the cell.  This would accomplish 2 things.  First it increases capacitance of the cell allowing it to accept a higher voltage charge which is important for voltrolysis.  The second is that with an additional dielectric layer you have higher resistance.  Both of these would be desirable in replicating SM system (in theory).  We can only say otherwise either way when someone does manage to fully replicate the effect.

TS

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Re: Water Molecule Capacitance (far out thinking...)
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2012, 17:57:07 pm »
Incidentally, as I am sure everyone aware, it's not the oxidization of iron (in other words what we know as rust) that I have been referring to.  Rust is obviously not desirable.  I'd very strongly suggest research into the properties of electrolytic capacitors including how they are made to understand why turning the water cell into an electrolytic capacitor would be desirable in this context.

TS

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Re: Water Molecule Capacitance (far out thinking...)
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2012, 17:41:29 pm »
Here's something else I've been considering for a while and has recurred to me last night.   The water doesn't actually need to be in direct contact with the SS does it?  I mean, the whole point of this SM's design is to use high charges to pull apart the water molecule, like using magnetic forces.  With the water actually being a lossy dielectric, couldn't we just isolate the SS tubes from the water with some sort of sealant; urethane or epoxy or something?  This would allow a higher voltage charge on the cell, prevent electron transfer to the water, and create additional resistance in the circuit.

This would possibly produce the same effect as the oxide skin, except be more permanent.

Has anyone tried this?

TS

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Re: Water Molecule Capacitance (far out thinking...)
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2012, 08:44:24 am »
Here's something else I've been considering for a while and has recurred to me last night.   The water doesn't actually need to be in direct contact with the SS does it?  I mean, the whole point of this SM's design is to use high charges to pull apart the water molecule, like using magnetic forces.  With the water actually being a lossy dielectric, couldn't we just isolate the SS tubes from the water with some sort of sealant; urethane or epoxy or something?  This would allow a higher voltage charge on the cell, prevent electron transfer to the water, and create additional resistance in the circuit.

This would possibly produce the same effect as the oxide skin, except be more permanent.

Has anyone tried this?

TS


You mean fully insulated tubes with pvc?
Yes. Done that.

Steve

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Re: Water Molecule Capacitance (far out thinking...)
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2012, 01:31:38 am »
Here's something else I've been considering for a while and has recurred to me last night.   The water doesn't actually need to be in direct contact with the SS does it?  I mean, the whole point of this SM's design is to use high charges to pull apart the water molecule, like using magnetic forces.  With the water actually being a lossy dielectric, couldn't we just isolate the SS tubes from the water with some sort of sealant; urethane or epoxy or something?  This would allow a higher voltage charge on the cell, prevent electron transfer to the water, and create additional resistance in the circuit.

This would possibly produce the same effect as the oxide skin, except be more permanent.

Has anyone tried this?

TS

I do not post as often as I did in the past but here we go. I shared your thoughts a while back and searched for info regarding surface protection and metals with higher surface resistance to oxidation as my main focus was on voltage dissociation. But then I listened to the radio show with Stephen (that you can locate on Tony's page). Stephen mention that the electrodes are part of the efficiency, he even used the word over unity. What happens is that the process itself - energy charging the metal and oxidization - releases stored energy in the form of electrons. These electrons now become a part of the surplus energy within the dielectric and hence more energy now becomes available. We can also speculate about the vacuum energy found when the hydrogen atoms becomes ionic species, but that is another debate on its own. So, what Stephen is telling us is that the process use the energy found in the metal, so using protection or PVC on the metal surface limit the total efficiency.

This changes how we view the process as a hole. The iron oxides that we see is not from an acidic environment, but electron surging similar to standard Brute Force Electrolysis. We might even say that there are two process going on: 1'st is the High Voltage and Resonance (fundamental forces and molecular swing) and 2'nd we have the electron collision from Faraday's learning.
Voltage on its own is very hard to get started, so therefor we have the soft start ( charge build up aka, depletion layer) and we have the electron collision. 

It is a trick - yes, a trick, but non the less there. So instead of looking at it as a way of insulating the electrodes, look at it as that the electrodes are part of the system. Now of a sudden we need to change the system - just like Meyer and Stephen found. More free floating radicals (metal ion's) will pick up a charge and allow more electrons to flow, this is similar to straight DC run away effect. He add the steam reformer and filtration so he could keep the water clean and control the dielectric PH levels, temperature and insulation property (which needs to be high for amp restriction).

I hope this info helps you a bit.

Regards
Oneminde

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Re: Water Molecule Capacitance (far out thinking...)
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2012, 14:33:15 pm »
I have a problem with that explanation.  Once we start consuming power from the circuit in this fashion, we no longer have real over unity.  We end up with a power in equals power out situation.  You will never get more from the system if electron transfer in the system must originate from the VIC.  As i understand it, the SM system described doesn't require electron transfer.  It requires a voltage at a frequency that is able to exert an attraction force in such a way that the molecule is pulled apart.  Since voltage can be exerted without current consumption, this becomes an ability to exploit the properties of water with minimal power.

TS

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Re: Water Molecule Capacitance (far out thinking...)
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2012, 16:53:27 pm »
I have a problem with that explanation.  Once we start consuming power from the circuit in this fashion, we no longer have real over unity.  We end up with a power in equals power out situation.  You will never get more from the system if electron transfer in the system must originate from the VIC.  As i understand it, the SM system described doesn't require electron transfer.  It requires a voltage at a frequency that is able to exert an attraction force in such a way that the molecule is pulled apart.  Since voltage can be exerted without current consumption, this becomes an ability to exploit the properties of water with minimal power.

TS

Note; Yes, SM was right, but what Stephen is trying to say is that you create a situation where the lack of one component - electrons - is given back to the system via metal ionization and vacuum energy. The VIC is amp restriction yes as it should and with voltage and resonance alone you can make gas .. but in order to get a surplus, this energy must come from somewhere, besides the fact that Voltrolysis is a clever energy conversion system.

But I advice you to listen to the radio show.