# Ionizationx: a clean environment is a human right!

## Electrolysis => The basics => Topic started by: RamiKatzs on August 02, 2010, 05:41:32 am

Title: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. anythin
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2010, 05:41:32 am
Hi everyone. I will start this off. What is the maximum safe pressure you can have h2o gas at? What if its mixed 50% with nitrogen?  Thanks in advance. Rami
Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. anythin
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2010, 07:46:47 am
I dunno but plz be safe...
Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. any
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2010, 14:05:00 pm
Thanks Dankie for your concern. I should know the answer, for some reason 60-80 psi is in my head. I don't want to find out the hard way. I'm in a safe range right now but later today I would like to double my pressure to 60 psi. Anyone else input is appreciated.
Rami.
Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. any
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2010, 14:35:46 pm
Thanks Dankie for your concern. I should know the answer, for some reason 60-80 psi is in my head. I don't want to find out the hard way. I'm in a safe range right now but later today I would like to double my pressure to 60 psi. Anyone else input is appreciated.
Rami.
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Hi, I had HHO in my vessel at at least 80 PSI.....
Of course you dont want any spike in there....
Not sure what the exact max pressure is.

Steve
Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. anythin
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2010, 15:00:29 pm
Hi everyone. I will start this off. What is the maximum safe pressure you can have h2o gas at? What if its mixed 50% with nitrogen?  Thanks in advance. Rami
Depends on the container you use?  ???  Also you can use the universal gas law to detemine the temperature at a given volume and pressure, you want to be below the burn temperature obviously.
Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. any
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2010, 15:05:18 pm
?, thanks I feel better about going to the next level now. Although I am going to have some eddy currents involved. Who is the resonant math physics whiz around here? I need a resonant cavity formula for two concentric tubes .0625 gap for Meyers example cell. Not rlc formula. It will be like shrodinger ( sp) formula. I have Googled  till my fingers have bled. Its related to microwave or radar
Resonant cavity. Thanks, Rami.
Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. any
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2010, 15:22:51 pm
Haithar, thanks for the input. This is basic information we all should know, I think so anyways. I have been playing with this for over 6 years. For the last year I have been studying a lot of different aspects of the physics involved. All I can say is wow, MEYERS IS A REAL GENIUS!  Rami.
Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. any
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2010, 15:40:20 pm
Sorry, I mean to say Schumann formula. So much math so little brains. How does type of vessel affect how much psi? The vessel is plastic, connected to copper tubing. Wish I could upload a pic. I'm on an iPhone, I can only share to email address. Thanks Rami.
Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. any
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2010, 16:09:41 pm
I don't mean for this to be a blog, can I pulse a inductor straight from my function generator #10 copper insulated wire 150 turns around magneticish core 4ohms resistance. Can I just pulse the base of a transistor or do I need to make a simple isolation circuit? Does anyone have a schematic with values? Thanks, Rami.
Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. any
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2010, 17:54:37 pm
I don't mean for this to be a blog, can I pulse a inductor straight from my function generator #10 copper insulated wire 150 turns around magneticish core 4ohms resistance. Can I just pulse the base of a transistor or do I need to make a simple isolation circuit? Does anyone have a schematic with values? Thanks, Rami.
It depends on the function generator and the power draw of the inductor.
But most likely you'll switch it through a MOSFET, the gate is connected to the function generator.

A help for the starter: http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/transistor/tran_7.html (http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/transistor/tran_7.html)
Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. any
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2010, 20:07:04 pm
Thanks for the link, I am still out there somewhere. The solution I was hoping for was yea scavenge a transistor from your bendini motor and pulse the base tie the collector to the12v battery positive tie the emiter to the positive side of the inductor. The neg. Side of inductor back to neg. Side of battery. Whalla. Not as simple as I thought. I don't think its going to pull to many amps . I don't know though. I did think about using my variac with one diode to give me 30 Hertz at whatever voltage I choose. The variac has a fuse built in. This is on Sm. EPG. I am just ready to do it to see if concept works. God bless.  Rami.
Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. any
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 03, 2010, 05:37:38 am
OK. I just realized I'm having a conversation with myself. I've never caught myself before. Wow hope the kids don't find out.
I didnt do any test today. Odd thing happen I let it set overnight and lost pressure. No apparent leaks. Listened to all connections with hose (  redneck stethoscope ) no offensive. I just realized I have three cars in my front yard that don't run. I might be a red neck. Just checked a few minutes ago still holding at 15.5 psi the same pressure of nitrogen I started with. Makes me wonder if the hydrogen and oxygen recombined since it ain't moved in several hours. Ill check it in the morning.
After talking to an engineer he told me that the copper tubing will shield the magnetic field. So I tested copper vs. SS.  Using iron filing and test magnetic particles ( crushed magnet) the copper blocks part of the magnetic spectrum. The inductance from the inductor only affects the magnetic particles in copper. So the bottom line is use SS. Tubing. Didn't have aluminium tube to test. He just specified nonmagnetic pipe.
Hey if anyone can provide me with any help of any kind I would appreciate it. Look patient. Canada 1228833. And us. 4613779 .  Any in put to help move me forwards. Thanks RamiKatzs.
Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. anythin
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 03, 2010, 09:26:10 am
Hi Rami,

The recombination of H and O is not a proces that happens very quick if you have HHO gas in a bottle. So  you can eliminate that factor......

steve
Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. any
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 03, 2010, 16:07:27 pm
Steve,  I know your right, without even looking at the pressure this morning. It was just kind of weird that for about 3 hours it equalize at15.5psi . The same pressure of the initial amount if nitrogen I added. Since there was no additional energy added to the system I wouldn't expect the recombination to occur at such a rate.  Yea I knew I had a minor leak. No problem, it will work for the tests I want to run. Has anyone else heard of or built an SM EPG?  I haven't seen anything on any threads. If Myers is not a liar or a fraud which I don't believe he is either. Then you all need to read the claims of the patent. In my opinion this is as great or better than hydroxy.  Sure seems more easily done as well. If you haven't read those patents you should. OK can anyone help me with the electronic side of things? Thanks RamiKatzs.
Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. any
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 03, 2010, 16:14:20 pm
Steve,  I know your right, without even looking at the pressure this morning. It was just kind of weird that for about 3 hours it equalize at15.5psi . The same pressure of the initial amount if nitrogen I added. Since there was no additional energy added to the system I wouldn't expect the recombination to occur at such a rate.  Yea I knew I had a minor leak. No problem, it will work for the tests I want to run. Has anyone else heard of or built an SM EPG?  I haven't seen anything on any threads. If Myers is not a liar or a fraud which I don't believe he is either. Then you all need to read the claims of the patent. In my opinion this is as great or better than hydroxy.  Sure seems more easily done as well. If you haven't read those patents you should. OK can anyone help me with the electronic side of things? Thanks RamiKatzs.

I had a discussion with Sebosfato on the EPG......
We both tried to get any magnetic reaction in the HHO but didnt get any any spike whatsoever on the scope with multiple sorts of coils.
Tried with AC and rectified DC on the coils.
Lots of HHO or little HHO.
Nothing.

If anything should work, then it might be water that is split by electrolysis. That seems to react on magnetic fields.

Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. any
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 03, 2010, 16:27:06 pm
Steve, I would like to know more about the test specifics.  Have you had any conversations with dynodon? Please tell me all. Rami.
Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. any
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 03, 2010, 17:58:38 pm
http://www.google.com/gwt/x?q=magnetic+gas&ei=QjRYTNjZHsOPtgfqqIulAw&start=10&hl=en&source=m&u=http://www.springerlink.com/index/k4u3011662017720.pdf check out this article.  Mit. Professor is taking credit for discovering gas can display ferromagnetic properties in 2009. If Meyers wasn't bsing us he discovered it long before. Google magnetic gas to read the paper. The link is to another paper concerning diapole alignment only the abstract.
I think the gas has to be align before showing any detectable magnetic properties. That's what the permanent magnets do. I get that. When you start pulsing the inductor does it start aligning the gas matrix or ? Does any one know what kind and where I could scavenge a pump to circulate the gasses through the system? I'm thinking AC pump. Any other ideas appreciated. Time to reread all patents. Hey I thought this would be straight forward. Go figure.
Would be nice to see what others have done no sense in doing the same work twice. I will tell all good and bad here. Open source.
You know it surprises me that there is not more collaborative approach on these boards. Maybe its going on behind the scene. Not in an open manner. Hope final information is passed on to the masses. Rami.
Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. any
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 03, 2010, 18:53:54 pm
Would be nice to see what others have done no sense in doing the same work twice. I will tell all good and bad here. Open source.
You know it surprises me that there is not more collaborative approach on these boards. Maybe its going on behind the scene. Not in an open manner. Hope final information is passed on to the masses. Rami.
most people published everything they did here, but as you can see no one (not many?) had success with splitting water via voltage and moved on. The forum is full of threads about other peoples' work.
Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. any
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 03, 2010, 19:41:28 pm
Haithar I'm not saying anything derogatory towards anyone. Just that little side things are going on that never make it to the boards. Now I don't know for sure I haven't read every post on this board. I haven't Come across any mention of epg tests experiments or the like. If you know of some please point me in the right dirrection. Steve mentioned he and sebasto did a few experiments on the magnitism of the gas. It would be of benifit me to know some details. I am thinking of tests to do myself. My oscope went down the other day so it will be a handycap experiment. Steve any help bro.  I think a cap. Blew out in the oscope it started hissing like pressure escaping. I shut it down right away. Haven't opened it up yet to peek at it.
I will try to think of a test I can get some kind of indication from. I'm thinking fill up a PVC tube to about 30 psi then apply external magnetics to align gas then remove magnets slip inductor around tube move inductor. Ends of L in mouth to detect voltage/current.
Any thoughts welcome. I might just get one small loop of SS tubing hook to ports on current setup and try to pulse portion of said tube. Make a fine gauge secondary hook to a led.
The factors that directly control output according to Meyers are: pressure, pulse input, speed gas is moving( velocity ) and secondary windings and sometimes holding your mouth right helps. I can't believe no one has offered any circuit help yet. I guess the right individual hasn't read this yet. Don't be scared, step on up. God bless Rami.
Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. any
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 06, 2010, 02:17:07 am
OK I was told to use pex tubing , by an individual who claims to have a working prototype. I reread 2 of the patents and it jumped out at me non magnetic non conductive tubing. He also said the input is beyond pulsed? Just thought I would make this known for those trying to make an EPG. Rami.
Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. any
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 06, 2010, 10:12:21 am
OK I was told to use pex tubing , by an individual who claims to have a working prototype. I reread 2 of the patents and it jumped out at me non magnetic non conductive tubing. He also said the input is beyond pulsed? Just thought I would make this known for those trying to make an EPG. Rami.

PEX is cross-linked polyethylene. Through one of several processes, links between polyethylene molecules are formed to create bridges (thus the term "cross-linked). This resulting material is more durable under temperature extremes, chemical attack, and better resists creep deformation, making PEX an excellent material for hot water and other applications.

http://www.ppfahome.org/pex/faqpex.html (http://www.ppfahome.org/pex/faqpex.html)

Rami,

I have tried with pulsed bubbles. Big bubbles, small bubbles, steady flow of HHO....
Nothing on my scope. The scope was set on it highest sensistive setting for your info.
I could see spikes of the lightswitches upstairs......But nothing from the HHO flow.

Question: Why dont you invite that person who claims to have replicated the EPG.
That would be great!

Steve

Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. any
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 06, 2010, 13:28:16 pm
Steve, was the gas and or bubbles passed through a magnetic field first? If not would you mind repeating the experiment again? Pictorially in the patent Meyers shows the atoms taking on a magnetic field or stronger field after passing through a set of magnets N S orientation. There is something else that sticks in my brain, that is Meyers says from here on think of the atoms individually not as a mass. I don't know if that is a clue. Correct me if I'm wrong. Hydrogen is diamagnetic and oxygen is paramagnetic. Food for thought. As to inviting this fellow to come on the board that would be great if he would. I don't think he would. He mentioned he has been on some of these threads and and caught flack over some issues concerning Meyers back story. He also said that when he tried to give clues to how the wfc tech worked he was dealing with some ego issues so he stopped posting. He did say the technology was real. The epg should be straight forward I think so any way. It looks like when he discovered it he filed that US patent with the weird embodiment looks like some sort of electric motor with a pulley on the bottom. I think he was trying to sneak in in under the radar. This fellow might be full of it. Show me. I asked him about the one way valve shown in the Canadian patent he said there isn't one. But to me it seems that upon the collapse of the field in the inductor it would pull the gas back. Unless the field is much stronger during the energizing than the bemf.  Due to velocity its just a loss associated with the system. After the mass is moving it doesn't matter. Beyond pulsed? Now what does that mean?  I have a few thoughts on that. Although I'm not really qualified to speak about electronics. What comes to mind is an RLC circuit where the pump is the L portion. Or could be a magnetic standing wave. Any thoughts on that? My new build will be finished today. Still haven't figured how I'm going to pulse it. I'm thinking about using my bedini motor. Haithar put the link up for me on misters Thanks by the way, I understand I need to put a flywheel diode parallel with the inductor to stop it from damaging the mosfet. I have different diodes switching, rectifying , old microwave diodes. I will try and look later online for one. The Guy at radio shack just looked at me funny. Hey its all Greek to me too.
Take care, Rami.
Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. any
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 06, 2010, 13:46:18 pm
Steve, was the gas and or bubbles passed through a magnetic field first? If not would you mind repeating the experiment again? Pictorially in the patent Meyers shows the atoms taking on a magnetic field or stronger field after passing through a set of magnets N S orientation. There is something else that sticks in my brain, that is Meyers says from here on think of the atoms individually not as a mass. I don't know if that is a clue. Correct me if I'm wrong. Hydrogen is diamagnetic and oxygen is paramagnetic. Food for thought. As to inviting this fellow to come on the board that would be great if he would. I don't think he would. He mentioned he has been on some of these threads and and caught flack over some issues concerning Meyers back story. He also said that when he tried to give clues to how the wfc tech worked he was dealing with some ego issues so he stopped posting. He did say the technology was real. The epg should be straight forward I think so any way. It looks like when he discovered it he filed that US patent with the weird embodiment looks like some sort of electric motor with a pulley on the bottom. I think he was trying to sneak in in under the radar. This fellow might be full of it. Show me. I asked him about the one way valve shown in the Canadian patent he said there isn't one. But to me it seems that upon the collapse of the field in the inductor it would pull the gas back. Unless the field is much stronger during the energizing than the bemf.  Due to velocity its just a loss associated with the system. After the mass is moving it doesn't matter. Beyond pulsed? Now what does that mean?  I have a few thoughts on that. Although I'm not really qualified to speak about electronics. What comes to mind is an RLC circuit where the pump is the L portion. Or could be a magnetic standing wave. Any thoughts on that? My new build will be finished today. Still haven't figured how I'm going to pulse it. I'm thinking about using my bedini motor. Haithar put the link up for me on misters Thanks by the way, I understand I need to put a flywheel diode parallel with the inductor to stop it from damaging the mosfet. I have different diodes switching, rectifying , old microwave diodes. I will try and look later online for one. The Guy at radio shack just looked at me funny. Hey its all Greek to me too.
Take care, Rami.

Rami,

I tried it with and without external magnets.....

Title: Re: quick questions answered. electronics, building, math formulas, physics. any
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 06, 2010, 13:57:30 pm
Wow, what is your conclusion?  We need to build a hydrogen gas gun and process some argon through some carbon. LOL. You think volume and velocity is the reason you didn't show power? Rami.