Ionizationx: a clean environment is a human right!

General => Getting Together => Topic started by: hydro on March 16, 2008, 00:17:19 am

Title: Adding your Location, Read Me
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2008, 00:17:19 am
Just do it like i did with the alabama post,, we'll get this thing going as requested.
Title: Re: Adding your Location, Read Me
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2011, 03:32:32 am
Just do it like i did with the alabama post,, we'll get this thing going as requested.



Hi, I am Bjorn a retired Marine Engineer from the Norwegian Merchant Marine. Immigrated to Canada in 1969. I now live outside Vancouver on the Sunshine coast in a beautiful place called Halfmoon Bay.
I have always been interested in hydrogen for fuel ever since we had experiment with a electrolysis in grade 7 in elementary school. That time in Norway they called it knall gas. Already that time I asked my teacher why they did not use hydrogen for fuel? The answer I got was that hydrogen was so powerful that it would blow the engine apart. Now we now that that was not the case, or the problem. I have made a hydrogen generator about 20 years ago out of a pwc pipe with a few stainless steel plates and some caustic soda and water in my electrolyser. It worked. Saved about 20% on my gas consumption. I have to admit that I was not very happy with that, so I put the whole idea on the shelf.
A few months ago I found a lot of new things about hydrogen on the internet. Some people claim that they made 3-4 liter a minute. I have to see that before I believe it. Then I found Stan Meyers site, and I got excited again. I believe that it's possible to produce enough gas the way he did it, but l have not enough knowledge about the electronic parts of his system to understand how he did it.
As I understand, he is not the only one that have powered his car only on hydrogen. I read about a man in the Philippines to that are running his car only on hydrogen, and I think it is a few others too. All kinds of ideas is running around in my head. If somebody could make a hydrogen generator that could produce 1 liter a minute, that means that it could produce 60 liter an hour. With a injection system, would that not be enough to run the car?? An average car to day will burn about 10 liter of gas for 100 km. With the hydrogen 3 times stronger that the gasoline, it should do the same job with only 1/3 of the amount. Gasoline is injected in to the cylinders as vapor. With most of the hydrogen generators I have learned about they mixes the hydrogen that also have oxygen in it in the inlet to the cylinder with gasoline and air. In my mind that means that the hydrogen are so mixed up with so much air that it have lost lot of it's power when it get in to the cylinder. It is tinned out to much with air. So if you could inject the hydrogen that already have oxygen in to the cylinders without all the air from the air intake, your combustion will be much stronger because it will be more concentrated hydrogen. Another thing is that gasoline need  compressed air hot air to burn properly. Hydrogen-oxygen H2-O2 don't. It's all there. So theoretically we could have an engine with only one exhost valve and ignition every time the piston are on the top. This is theories but I am sure it would work if we only could produce enough hydrogen on board. I am retired, so I have lots of time for experimenting and make things and I have lots of experience but not much money. Have been working as a Machinist, Welder, Engine Fitter, Toolmaker and Sheet Metal Worker.
I like to work with somebody that are interested in making a better environment for us and generations after us. If we could get this working and made up plans how to do it and spread it out to people all over the world, that wold be nothing that could stop it. Just each person sending it to ten people and they send it to ten and so on it would not take long before it would be unstoppable. No I hope I will hear from some of you, and hear comments about my ideas.
I am a honest person and proud of it.
Bjorn   
     



Title: Re: Adding your Location, Read Me
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2011, 07:21:10 am
water has 2.5x the hydrogen of gasoline, but when you separate it, it expands 1800 times, so if a car burns 10 liters of gas for 100 km, then you need to split and burn 4 liters of water, which is 7200 liters of hydrogen and oxygen gas, at atmospheric pressure.


Stans patent called control and driver circuits says that one 3" cell can convert 5 gallons of water per hour, which is 2.5 gallons of hydrogen and oxygen per second.


your skills will help you, nobody on the internet can tell you how it works, and if they could, you wouldn't be able to make it work anyway, the background information and knowledge goes so deep, you just have to do your homework so you know what is behind every detail
Title: Re: Adding your Location, Read Me
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2011, 22:51:37 pm
Bjorn,
 
I agree with donaldwfc on the following:
Quote
nobody on the internet can tell you how it works, and if they could, you wouldn't be able to make it work anyway, the background information and knowledge goes so deep, you just have to do your homework so you know what is behind every detail.

There are quite a few of us who have been researching and posting on these sites for a few years with only minimal success. There are many variables within the circuit, and if any one of them is not right the circuit will not work. For me, the more I have learned about Meyer, the more I realized that I didn't know. There is a steep learning curve involved in this. The principle of it is very basic and easy to understand. Replicating takes a great deal of knowledge.
 
In fact, just before Stan Meyer passed away he obtained funding for a multi-million dollar R & D facility. After over 20 years of work he had not brought anything to market. I believe that he did show it can be done, and his technology really could change the world in a way which man could only dream of until it becomes a reality.
Title: Re: Adding your Location, Read Me
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2011, 23:52:14 pm
Welcome Bjorn to ionizationx  :)

I think most is already said.
There is a lot of info here and on the internet.
Go have a look at the Meyer documents here and start reading.
Also dont wait to long with building....thats a great tool to learn the details better.

If you have questions, just drop them here in a post. Many members here to assist you.

Steve
Title: Hydrogen production
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2011, 00:17:41 am

Thank you for your information and comments. If we knew how Stan could make so much hydrogen in so short time, the whole problem would have been solved, right??
I wold really like to know if anybody in ionizationx  here have made any fuel cells (Hydrogen generators) that will produce a good amount of Hydrogen. I have only made a few different ones with 316 st.steel plates. My experience from them is that more plates don't make more hydrogen with the same amperage. I also find out that with 1/8" plates I get more production than with thin .0030 plates. So my best one now have a mix of thin and thick plates. It take some time to make all of this, so I would appreciate to hear from somebody that have made some different experiments. I have not yet made any dry cells that seem to be popular on the internet, and I have not tried to make the kind that Stan Meier made with tubing. I don't know if it make much different? Any way the one in Stan's video will take a lot of space.
Bjorn
Title: Re: Adding your Location, Read Me
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2011, 03:08:14 am
I made quite a few electrolysis based
units when I first got started. I found
The smack booster worked well and
Produced about 1-2 lpm. I got a 10mpg
 boost but It did not last.

i eventually gave up on electrolysis units
 for the following reasons:
-the production is dependant on temperature,
during the winter months production was almost
 non existent, and in the summer I often had problems with
boiling water. If you don't have the electrolyte
Levels right problems will arise.

-the other problem was tuning a fuel injected
engine properly when the hydrogen production
Is dependant on temperature and electrolyte
levels. there are many who have had success
with boosters. In my case they were more work
than they were worth.

When it comes to running an engine on
just hydrogen the biggest problem is
hydrogen's low energy density. Stan
Meyer solved this problem with the gas processor.
Title: Re: Adding your Location, Read Me
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2011, 04:13:10 am
Bjorn, here is the deal in short form.


Electrolysis is following a law that says the amount of substance collected at an electrode is equal to the amount of current that flows through the electrode, and current is coulombs per second, and coulombs is a number of electrons, so what this tells us is that electrons are being exchanged at the electrode and releasing the gas, you can think of it like this, electrons are tickets for milkshakes, the more tickets you exchange, the more milkshakes you get, and that is the law, with electrolysis you can never get more milkshakes than you have tickets, because it's an exchange process.


Stan's process is different in a basic way, it doesn't use this exchange process, no electrons/tickets are needed at the electrode, he never calls them electrodes either because they are not electrodes, he calls them exciters or plates, and the idea is simple, and the whole device is probably simple too if you understood it, it's just this understanding thing that gets people off track. we want to apply an "electrical attraction force" with the use of voltage and an electric field across the water, and the current needs to be restricted, and the pulsing of the voltage at a frequency that matches the motion of the water in a standing wave between the plates will cause it to break apart faster, the water has a positive and negative side, and he calls this process the Electrical Polarization Process, which is a descriptive emphasizer of the way it works with the facts that the water is polar in structure, and he uses an electrical circuit to polarize and separate the water.


You have to decide between the two processes, if you want to play with electrolysis then you can optimize for that process, and will be limited by that process, you need to use high current, and your efficiency loss is due to heating of the water, and expense due to cost of distilled water and electrolyte additives such as KOH and NaOH.


There is information that suggests boosters can increase internal combustion engines net efficiency, helping only to get more energy out of the gasoline by burning it faster and more completely, which requires something in the neighborhood of 20 liters per minute of hydrogen and oxygen, and not 1-4 liters which you commonly see in these small booster units.


If you want to work on Stan's process, then right from the start, realize it is different, and requires the proper electrical circuitry to control the process and accomplish the task. The shape of the metal has nothing to do with it besides optimization, someone with tubes doing electrolysis is fooling themselves.
Title: Re: Adding your Location, Read Me
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2011, 21:54:25 pm
Hi Donald,
Thank you for taking the time to explain all that for me. Glad you did not use technical descriptions but words that even a Norwegian like me can understand. From the video at Stan's workshop, his invention looked just like an electrolysis, but you say that it is not? Someplace I so that Stan was told that his system could not work because it was not possible to take out or produce more energy than you are putting in. Stan said that they was wrong, and I guess he proved it too. For me this is really complicated  and I am glad for all the information you gave me. My knowledge about the electronic with resistors and all that stuff is to little.
I was really hoping that somebody had found out how Stan did it. I have also read that it is a few other guys that have their car running on hydrogen that are produced while they are driving. Don't know if it works the same way as Stan's invention or if it something different. I think one of them was located in Australia or New Zealand. I also read about a man in the Philippines that also run his car on hydrogen only. Do you know anything about that??? Or do you know about www.water4gas.com? They claimed that that they have somebody that have the solution how to produce enough hydrogen on board to run your car. As I understand they are looking for a way to release it safely. I have been in contact with them.
Bjorn
Title: Re: Hydrogen production
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 19, 2011, 19:27:00 pm

Thank you for your information and comments. If we knew how Stan could make so much hydrogen in so short time, the whole problem would have been solved, right??
I wold really like to know if anybody in ionizationx  here have made any fuel cells (Hydrogen generators) that will produce a good amount of Hydrogen. I have only made a few different ones with 316 st.steel plates. My experience from them is that more plates don't make more hydrogen with the same amperage. I also find out that with 1/8" plates I get more production than with thin .0030 plates. So my best one now have a mix of thin and thick plates. It take some time to make all of this, so I would appreciate to hear from somebody that have made some different experiments. I have not yet made any dry cells that seem to be popular on the internet, and I have not tried to make the kind that Stan Meier made with tubing. I don't know if it make much different? Any way the one in Stan's video will take a lot of space.
Bjorn

Hi Bjorn,

I am just like you on this matter.

To shorten your learning experience, I'll tell you my experience and hope we can learn from each other.

Study the structure of water of water first. It would make your experiments less costly. i made a mistake in skipping this and went directly to hydrogen.

As I said in another post, flat plates are inefficient. Learn from nature.

There are a lot of information in the internet which are very valuable and applicable to your experiments and people treat them as non-essential. The technology for water dissociation is already here, it's only a matter of time.

You'll see a lot of video from people making good gas production but they normally don't tell you that they use electrolytes. Look, plants produce hydrogen without electrolyte, that's what I understand from photolysis.