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Projects by members => Projects by members => Haithar => Topic started by: haithar on July 22, 2010, 20:17:09 pm

Title: Holiday project
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 22, 2010, 20:17:09 pm

Got me a dry cell, power supply (60A max.) and a good old made in germany generator cheap from eBay which will make 1,7kW.
Trying to run this thing on HHO in the next months.
Hope Stevie gets his done soon so i can copy what he does  :D
Title: Re: Holiday project
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 22, 2010, 22:03:26 pm
Great stuff Haithar.
 
Is that a similar powersupply as the Anton groupe uses?
 
Steve
Title: Re: Holiday project
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 22, 2010, 22:09:50 pm
That is indeed the exact same power supply they use. It's also the most lightweight one and with the best price to power ratio.
Title: Re: Holiday project
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 23, 2010, 09:56:18 am
That is indeed the exact same power supply they use. It's also the most lightweight one and with the best price to power ratio.

How efficient is that one?
I mean, try to hookup a load on it and measure consumed power and measure also the consumed power on the walloutlet side at the same time.
That would help me a lot!
 
 
Steve
Title: Re: Holiday project
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 23, 2010, 10:56:41 am
That is indeed the exact same power supply they use. It's also the most lightweight one and with the best price to power ratio.

How efficient is that one?
I mean, try to hookup a load on it and measure consumed power and measure also the consumed power on the walloutlet side at the same time.
That would help me a lot!
 
 
Steve
i'll see what i can do.
Title: Re: Holiday project
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 08, 2010, 13:21:36 pm
Made some modifications to the cell, added a new bubbler and water reservoir. Also used a working flashback arrestor out of aquarium stone bubblers and fine steel wool. To make it even more secure in case of flashback arrestor failure an overpressure valve was added which would hopefully open in case of a slightly larger pressure than normal.
flame is working fine, when the cell warms up i can get 23V / 20A, but i'd like to have more volts and less amps. when i ever encounter a deal for ss316L plates like last time again i'll buy them.


we also have a powermeter somewhere here steve, when i have found it i'll do efficiency measurements of the power supply. i'm really impressed by this china scrap nevertheless, fan wasn't even necessary at 600-800W and it's not as warm as it could have been.
Title: Re: Holiday project
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 08, 2010, 15:27:39 pm
i'm really impressed by this china scrap nevertheless

haha they are making better and better stuff all the time, kinda scary isn't it?
Title: Re: Holiday project
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 09, 2010, 17:34:06 pm
i'm really impressed by this china scrap nevertheless

haha they are making better and better stuff all the time, kinda scary isn't it?
yes ;)


did some measurements today, power supply can handle max. 900W, tested till 450W.


As you can see both current and power is proportional to gas output, so there is no "sweet" spot to be found, the cell (when warmed up) acts as a linear resistor.
Sadly it's only about 4.7MMW, on the other hand there are various ways gas could have escaped and not being measured.
Title: Re: Holiday project
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 09, 2010, 20:41:40 pm
i'm really impressed by this china scrap nevertheless

haha they are making better and better stuff all the time, kinda scary isn't it?
yes ;)


did some measurements today, power supply can handle max. 900W, tested till 450W.


As you can see both current and power is proportional to gas output, so there is no "sweet" spot to be found, the cell (when warmed up) acts as a linear resistor.
Sadly it's only about 4.7MMW, on the other hand there are various ways gas could have escaped and not being measured.

Yes, like a resistor. However it also holds on a charge. Not comperable like a capacitor, but it does hold it.
 
 
Title: Re: Holiday project
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 16, 2010, 14:56:29 pm
6% KoH solution,
19V, 10A,
1liter/min


So 1l/190Wmin. Still my goal is producing 1l/min for 150W.
I'm now considering if it's worth to upgrade my cell (several issues here) or buy something which is tested already.
Title: Re: Holiday project
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 16, 2010, 15:20:07 pm
6% KoH solution,
19V, 10A,
1liter/min


So 1l/190Wmin. Still my goal is producing 1l/min for 150W.
I'm now considering if it's worth to upgrade my cell (several issues here) or buy something which is tested already.

Haithar,
 
Try to use NAOH instead of KOH.
My experience is that KOH is nice when you use much higher amps.
NAOH works better between 2 and 12 amps on my setup......
 
Steve
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Holiday project
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 16, 2010, 15:49:48 pm
Yes, but the problem is i have to use amps.
I only have 13 plates, so to get a mediocre amount of gas i need to use over 15 Amps. Someone on the german overunity forums determined a current density of 0.04A/cm² to be the maximum for optimal use of current and temperature in the cell (80°C being the best temperature for longer use), that's 18 Amps in my setup.
If i want to use less amps i need to add many more plates, and that's where the problem is.
I could add more plates and try to make it work with the setup i have, which means much more tinker time to make it work without leaking or i buy a unit which has been well-thought-out.


Did you ever have a fizzling in your cell? I can't locate where it comes from and there's no liquid leaking out but i'm not quite sure if it's inside between the plates or gas is escaping somewhere.



We're doing a centralised order on the overunity forums for the KX1130 ic, a chip which regulates the ignition timing based on the engine's rpm, currently we're at $3,25 per chip or so. If you want one too let me know.
Title: Re: Holiday project
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 16, 2010, 16:03:43 pm
Yes, but the problem is i have to use amps.
I only have 13 plates, so to get a mediocre amount of gas i need to use over 15 Amps. Someone on the german overunity forums determined a current density of 0.04A/cm² to be the maximum for optimal use of current and temperature in the cell (80°C being the best temperature for longer use), that's 18 Amps in my setup.
If i want to use less amps i need to add many more plates, and that's where the problem is.
I could add more plates and try to make it work with the setup i have, which means much more tinker time to make it work without leaking or i buy a unit which has been well-thought-out.


Did you ever have a fizzling in your cell? I can't locate where it comes from and there's no liquid leaking out but i'm not quite sure if it's inside between the plates or gas is escaping somewhere.



We're doing a centralised order on the overunity forums for the KX1130 ic, a chip which regulates the ignition timing based on the engine's rpm, currently we're at $3,25 per chip or so. If you want one too let me know.

 
You can check leakage of gas with help of soapfoam....Thats how i do it.

Send me a picture of your current cell WITH tubes and waterreservoir in ONE shot.....I might be able you help you with your fizzling thing.
Becarefull for now. Dont fire it up, yet. I think you have a design issue here.
 
 
Where can i read about the KX chip? I found the datasheet already..
 
 
Steve
 
 
Title: Re: Holiday project
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 16, 2010, 16:36:44 pm
Yes, but the problem is i have to use amps.
I only have 13 plates, so to get a mediocre amount of gas i need to use over 15 Amps. Someone on the german overunity forums determined a current density of 0.04A/cm² to be the maximum for optimal use of current and temperature in the cell (80°C being the best temperature for longer use), that's 18 Amps in my setup.
If i want to use less amps i need to add many more plates, and that's where the problem is.
I could add more plates and try to make it work with the setup i have, which means much more tinker time to make it work without leaking or i buy a unit which has been well-thought-out.


Did you ever have a fizzling in your cell? I can't locate where it comes from and there's no liquid leaking out but i'm not quite sure if it's inside between the plates or gas is escaping somewhere.



We're doing a centralised order on the overunity forums for the KX1130 ic, a chip which regulates the ignition timing based on the engine's rpm, currently we're at $3,25 per chip or so. If you want one too let me know.

 
You can check leakage of gas with help of soapfoam....Thats how i do it.

Send me a picture of your current cell WITH tubes and waterreservoir in ONE shot.....I might be able you help you with your fizzling thing.
Becarefull for now. Dont fire it up, yet. I think you have a design issue here.
 
 
Where can i read about the KX chip? I found the datasheet already..
 
 
Steve
Yeah did the thing with the soapfoam already and after one minute the plates turned brown, soap + water + electricity + steel plates = bad
however no bubbles, i suspect it's fizzling because i only have one hole on the upper side of the plate and one on the lower side, so it's inside.
I can do a video later.




The kx chip is used by 'Walter Hofmann' explained partially in this thread: http://www.overunity.de/index.php?topic=164.msg11788#new (http://www.overunity.de/index.php?topic=164.msg11788#new)
The order is here: http://www.overunity.de/index.php?topic=741.msg11813#new
I'm currently waiting for Walter to give news, he inquired about a evaluation board, because it's a little 4x3mm smd chip.
It's not essential for use but may optimize an engines' performance.
Title: Re: Holiday project
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 16, 2010, 17:34:06 pm
here are pictures and a movie of the cell started up. it's filled half but the outer plate gets filled completely when the gas pressure gets higher. the other plates not.
valve to the reservoir is closed.
Title: Re: Holiday project
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 16, 2010, 22:35:13 pm
I see you have no closed water circuit around your cell.
A separate waterinlet tank and a separate bubler on the gasoutput, if i am right?
 
The only thing i would change is the gasoutput.
Move it to the other endplate.
 
Steve
 
Title: Re: Holiday project
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 17, 2010, 11:07:18 am
Yes both are separate.


Well the reservoir-valve is closed when the cell is turned on so it's not different as if the reservoir-hose wasn't there or on the other side. The one thing i'd change is drill another hole at the top so that the compensation of water/gas inside the cell is easier.




You don't have figures about your NaOH concentration in your cell, do you? I'm suspecting that if one used 25% electrolyte like commercial electrolysers the MMW would be much higher, only dependant on the conductivity of the water.
There is a video in which they test the gas output of the Anton cell, with the same amount of KoH concentration (3%) it gets more or less exactly the same MMW value, much like many other cells they tested. (4,7-5,0 MMW)
I then doubled the KoH concentration and got 5,2MMW instead of the 4,7MMW from before.
Title: Re: Holiday project
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 17, 2010, 11:56:42 am
Yes both are separate.


Well the reservoir-valve is closed when the cell is turned on so it's not different as if the reservoir-hose wasn't there or on the other side. The one thing i'd change is drill another hole at the top so that the compensation of water/gas inside the cell is easier.




You don't have figures about your NaOH concentration in your cell, do you? I'm suspecting that if one used 25% electrolyte like commercial electrolysers the MMW would be much higher, only dependant on the conductivity of the water.
There is a video in which they test the gas output of the Anton cell, with the same amount of KoH concentration (3%) it gets more or less exactly the same MMW value, much like many other cells they tested. (4,7-5,0 MMW)
I then doubled the KoH concentration and got 5,2MMW instead of the 4,7MMW from before.

I dont know exact how much i use on NAOH.
It good to use as much as possible in a cell like mine. I still need to start playing with that more. I ll guess i am now at 10% orso.
 
 
 
Title: Re: Holiday project
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 17, 2010, 12:04:01 pm
do you need to refill NaOH or is it like KOH and is not used up in the electrolysis?
Title: Re: Holiday project
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 13, 2011, 00:44:43 am
still at it btw. assembled the cell again and finished the circuit which is running fine now (extensive testing). hope to fire an engine up and run it with hho soon (not saying looping anything or something like that, just make it run with hho instead of gasoline).