Projects by members => Projects by members => Donaldwfc => Topic started by: Donaldwfc on September 27, 2009, 01:01:05 am
Title: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 27, 2009, 01:01:05 am
Stan had two alternators. (at least)
One was a Delco Remy, this is what is shown in the desktop demonstration, (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/demo.png) and what is featured in the International Test Evaluation Report, (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/meyeralt.jpg) Also given in the International Report, is the Schematic of this setup FOR the DELCO REMY (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/setup.png) I want to point out the important things in this: it says "Voltage Level Output Determined by Number of Turns per Pickup Coil" also, there are only THREE DIODES (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/Picture8-1.png) The other schematic given in the International is this one, (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/Picture6-2.png) The important thing here is where is says (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/Picture9.png)
So now we go to the Tech Brief, and look up the VIC Rotary Circuit 8-11 WE SEE TWO different circuits... (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/Picture10.png)
Now lets look at the OTHER time we know he used a different alternator, (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/Picture11-1.png) This is from the 1984 News Release, also the same time as the video of him idling the dune buggy on water This is NOT a Delco Remy, I do not know what this alternator is, but I will find out soon enough. Someone once posted this picture suggesting it was a Ford Truck Alternator, (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/fordtruckalternator.jpg) And that looks pretty close? ... To be Confirmed...
We also have the pictures of the PCB that Stan used in his alternator, (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/stan_one.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/stan5.jpg) This PCB has space for SIX diodes.
And Finally (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/Picture_020.jpg) This picture shows the PCB inside his alternator, you can see there are SIX diodes soldered in, this is NOT a Delco Remy, the brushes are in a different spot, i remember from mine as i modified it.
This is the alternator he used while idling the dune buggy, and maintaining pressure at 13.75 psi. This circuit was one of the 8-11 circuits, with 6 Diodes, so my best guess is this one, (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/Picture7-1.png) This has 6 diodes. It also has Resonant Charging Chokes.
As I just learned from Hydro, chokes will not work outside of the alternator unless you use another pulsing circuit, because the ripple is too smooth, the chokes will be smoked, so the chokes are INSIDE the alternator, also the diodes are INSIDE the alternator, so they get the full pulsing field from the rotor.
This also means the chokes are pulsed with an Alternating Magnetic Field from the rotor, and the Blocking diodes are connected somewhere in the middle of each phase winding to separate the 'secondary' from the chokes.
Another detail is that these chokes could be bifilar wound, and they could be made of resistive SS wire.
If you have or have had an alternator pulsing your cell, help, let's figure this out!
If you don't have an alternator set up, and you go off topic, i will remove your post.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 27, 2009, 01:10:12 am
I have figured out how to rewind the alternator for the Unipolar Crossover Pulse-Train.
If you plan on rewinding your alternator I will show you how I will do mine.
To do the crossover voltage burst sync pulse, is the same except with the secondary center-tapped and an external choke to ground, which I may try eventually.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 27, 2009, 17:04:56 pm
Figure out how many turns you can fit in the stator with your chosen gauge of wire, divide this by 6. Wind each phase Trifilar, three wires wrapped simultaneously, marking each end of your wires. You will have 18 "ends" to connect, so make sure you label them damn good. Insert each phase like "normal", with proper winding direction and "additive" magnetic field orientation. When the phase is laid in the stator it will make a complete circle, so the start and end of the wires will meet. Starting from "Negative" Connect "Negative" to "Bottom Choke Start" for each phase. Connect "Bottom Choke End" to "Secondary Start" for each phase.... *Possibly* connect "Isolated Ground" here. Connect "Secondary End" to "Blocking Diode Anode" for each phase. Connect "Blocking Diode Cathode" to "Top Choke Start" for each phase. Connect "Top Choke End" to "Isolation Diode Anode" for each phase. Connect "Isolation Diode Cathode" to "Positive" for each phase.
That should be better than a picture anyway.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 27, 2009, 23:09:31 pm
All you do is input 0-12 volts DC into the field windings, and power it with a constant speed motor. That is why it is called the "Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator" - because it does ALL of that.
I don't believe gating is required at all for this set up.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 28, 2009, 00:06:15 am
All you do is input 0-12 volts DC into the field windings, and power it with a constant speed motor. That is why it is called the "Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator" - because it does ALL of that.
I don't believe gating is required at all for this set up.
You can play with the signal after the fact , I can easily make an triac pulse or gate it , theres a circuit with that thing .
Whatever it is , a solid state version will be at least 3 times more efficient from what I have calculated , there is a maximum of 40% power loss from the total load ( cell ) .
How much was Stan before the cell is what I wanna know , I know he was using very low amps going to the cell .
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 28, 2009, 00:08:21 am
Well pulsing or gating the Stator makes it even more inefficient. for every pulse or gate you turn off the stator for, you are still running your drive motor and field coils. If you were able to use the gating to make the cell resonate... then maybe, but i'm not getting into that myself.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 28, 2009, 20:17:58 pm
There is another picture missing I can't seem to find it yet on my hard drive. The board in the alternator then a heat sink metal board above that one. Try to find that picture.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 29, 2009, 00:10:35 am
That description doesn't ring familiar, I must not have it, I went through all my collected material yesterday looking for pictures of Stan's circuit board.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 29, 2009, 18:27:04 pm
Normally this would produce 3-phase AC, however Diodes do not conduct "backwards" Thus circuit is "disconnected" or "off" during negative portion of the cycle, The alternating magnetic field from the rotor only creates a voltage in the stator when the diodes conduct forwards Therefore this is always unipolar
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 29, 2009, 19:19:34 pm
Thoughts on theory
(With reference to my above drawing and the directions indicated therein)
This is an alternator, but it doesn't create an output ANYTHING like an alternator.
Compare: 1. A high voltage stator wound like normal with 300 turns per loop, you would create the given voltage due to the turns. 2. A high voltage stator wound trifilar with 100 turns per loop (x3 = 300), and connected in series.
Each has the same amount of wire, each has the same amount of turns in total. But the 2. has 42 loops per phase at 100 turns, rather than 14 loops at 300 turns. The electrons in 2. will travel around the stator core 3 times before exiting, rather than once.
Stator 1. would produce normal high voltage 3 phase ac with proportionally reduced amps. Now consider the blocking diodes in 2. and look at the back emf.
Every time the magnetic field of the rotor switches to induce a negative voltage, the diodes switch off, and the magnetic field of the stator collapses.
The "Top Choke" bemf with initially go backwards against the diode, but then be forced in the opposite direction, towards V+ or clockwise.
Meanwhile the "Secondary" and the "Bottom Choke" bemf will travel counter clockwise, and since they are trifilar wound, this happens right next to eachother, and it happens 3 times around the stator core.
Also consider, during this bemf collapse, the rotors magnetic field is 'trying' to induce a negative voltage in the stator, or counter clockwise, so the rotor is working with the bottom choke and the secondary, and working against the top choke.
surely a cluster f**k of magnetic fields going on, surely it restricts the amps, causes electron bounce, and allows voltage to take over.
I didn't even mention the other two phases, but lets consider them now.
every 60 degrees you have the next phase, so you have the emf and bemf cycle constantly going on and overlapping and creating mutual induction from one phase to the next due to proximity and one damn confused stator core.
this means that at one particular time you have one phase conducting, and two pahses making bemf, and then at another paticular time you have 2 phases conducting and 1 phase making bemf, and at any other time you have some combination of the cycle, all overlapping.
After considering this design, I can somewhat conclude that you will be able to pull some unipolar voltage out of it, but pulling current out of it would be like trying to get your lawn chair back from a hurricane.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 30, 2009, 22:46:10 pm
@Donaldwfc
Interesting theory! Maybe the way to get the current out of the alternator, We can "Bi-, Tri-filar wind the coils (L2,L5,L8)" this lowers the Impedance of the coils, The coils are in series. I have no idea if all the coils (L1..L9) must be wound that way. It makes sense that all the coils must be in the same field in the stator, but the coils must match the load @rpms. Looks difficult to make this kind of coil configuration.
I'm still using the alternator in the 'old' configuration. When my 'old' setup is running again......, I could look into this too.
Pulse and gate can be applied.
"Pulsating (switch off/on) Rotating magnetic field (adjusting magnetic field strength to allow voltage potential to be developed across pickup windings 'secundary' while current leakage is held to a minimum value)"
br, Webmug
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 01, 2009, 01:21:21 am
Maybe the way to get the current out of the alternator, - We don't want current out of the alternator? we want it to act as an amp restrictor, and just get the voltage out
We can "Bi-, Tri-filar wind the coils (L2,L5,L8)" this lowers the Impedance of the coils, -I thought of that, following my example of 42 loops at 100 turns, you could do six-filar, and then have 84 loops at 50 turns, but the reason why i am happy with 42 loops is because that is how many there are in the famous VIC Coil... 14 grooves * 3 coils = 42 loops! It's the same!
I hope you try this stator circuit, I think it makes sense and fits with the clues, so I see value in building it.
In your drawing there, showing pulsing the rotor. Would you be so kind as to provide an explanation to why this is useful, because it doesn't make sense to me. It might be a brilliant idea, but with my understanding, I just don't get it. Here is why: The rotor is designed to run on straight DC, the output of the stator is exactly proportional to the strength of the magnetic field in the rotor, and the strength of the rotor is exactly proportional to the current flowing in the rotor, pulsing the rotor will reduce the current which reduces magnetic field strength which reduces the output of the stator. Pulsing the rotor does not control the output frequency of the alternator, the output frequency of the alternator is controlled by the rpms, so if you want to adjust frequency you have to adjust the driving speed. The alternator is not like an AC transformer... 60 Hz in = 60Hz out, its a DC to 3pAC rotary transformer.
Thanks
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 01, 2009, 02:40:36 am
Take notice to how the Rotor is shaped, as if the poles are triangles, not squares. Understand that the frequency put into this rotor will be riding on the shape of the poles, as they rake across the stator thats square. Like a Triangle magnet raking across a square coil, accept the triangle magnet has a viberation caused by a pwm.
Just a small bit of my thoughts, as i am once again,, wasting thread space..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 01, 2009, 04:51:08 am
have you had any better results with that?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 01, 2009, 22:08:03 pm
Donald, Stan was pulsing the stator on the alternator! When Stan uses the Vari-ac and runs it through a full bridge rectifier,you have 60 hertz before the bridge,and 120 hertz after.So Stan was pulsing the rotor at 120 hertz.The voltage coming out of the vari-ac is 60 hertz a/c.Do you understand this point?It's easy to forget about the line voltage frequency. Don
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 01, 2009, 22:47:27 pm
donald,
i love the theory.. makes alot of sense when it comes to amp restricting.. so you see the alternator having all winds contained within the alternator.. would it be possible to use a finer wire for the chokes in a tri filar configuration? also what about the multi spool vic.. was it designed to be yet another way for obtaining restricted amps but from the exterior of the alternator? stans pcb seems to indicate that he didnt have problems with heating of his stator windings since it seems to block the circulation within the alternator.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 02, 2009, 00:23:11 am
Don, I do know the rotor is being pulsed with 120 hz from the variac, same in his set up as is mine, however the way I understand it, this is not important, I am under the impression that the 120 Hz DC on the Rotor would have the exact same effect on the Stator output as if you put a smoothing capacitor after the Bridge to smooth it out to straight DC and then sent that into the Rotor, because it would be the same amount of current creating the magnetic field. The rpm controls the frequency, not the rotor. Stan didn't design it to be pulsed at any particular frequency, he just went with that because that's what comes out of the wall.
However I may be wrong, maybe this pulsing rotor is a brilliant trick, I just haven't had anyone explain it's usefulness. If I had an oscilloscope I might try watching the output with and without a smoothing cap after the Bridge and then see what is so special. Maybe someone with such a set up could try it for me?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 02, 2009, 00:29:19 am
outlaw, I keep seeing similarities between the VIC Coil and the alternator, all the same key things are involved in both systems, and they rightly should be. I think drawing the connections between them helps to understand them both better. I suppose the stator wouldn't get hot unless there is lots of amps flowing through, but you can see the vent holes all the way around the edge... maybe he wanted the diodes to get lots of air flow... I don't plan on using different sized wire in the stator.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 02, 2009, 10:33:27 am
To all,
A circuit schematic may help a bit, comments are welcome.
br, Webmug
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 02, 2009, 21:02:29 pm
He was definitly adjusting the rpm of the drive motor that turned the alternator to go into resonance .
His whole setup was in the 1000 watt range or more . The drive motor ran on AC house current and it was not portable.
Its a load of trouble and alot of exterior ineffieciencies if you ask me , at least 300% or more depending on how fast that drive motor is running . You are transfering electrical to mechanical and back again , none are perfect , they all have conversion losses and are limited by heat and friction of the mechanical components .
I asked my professor @ school if there was a difference between a single phase of AC house current and a sine inverter , there is absolutely no difference .
Both can be transformed easily and run a load, electron phasing will react just as it would in a regular AC network .
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 03, 2009, 02:45:00 am
A variac,,, A variac would only be good for "12" volts, As if you put any more voltage than that into the rotor it will eventually melt it.. Ac, Hrm, The stator already Produces Alternating Magnetic fields as it spins, Using Ac on the rotor is somewhat ignorant.
120 hertz, 240 cycles per second! Is pretty dumb. That would be "Worse" than just using a Car battery to power the rotor, Since you have "Sine Waves" going into the rotor, Adding a capacitor would Help an variac be more like a car battery, But adding full wave ac rectified is like a battery that dies and comes back to life, Whats the point to that?
Charging a Capacitor, At a ("Frequency") will charge the Capacitor to a Much higher Voltage, However, Without a Frequency this is not possible. Example, A 555 timer can charge a Capacitor to "1000" volts using a 1.5 volt battery with a very small transformer.
Example, a 555 timer can charge a capacitor to a much larger voltage using no transformer, Using frequencys to charge a capacitor will always result in a higher voltage across the capacitor than the voltage being used to power the circuit. Frequencys to charge capacitors to high votlages is Very old, In fact, This is Basic Common since to anyone in the electronic field.
You can Full rectify the Variac to the rotor, IF you Limit the current flow to the rotor by placing a pulsing device between the rotor and dc variac, However to do that would mean adding a frequency. But this way you could use more than 12 volts on the rotor, you could use 100 volts, if you restrict it well enough with a frequency.
Yikes, This is a Transformer, A Moving Transformer that Does not NEED AC at its Primary Coil because it is "Moving" alreay, The Rotor Takes "DC" and the Rotor Converts "DC" into "AC" magnetic Fields, The Carrier wave is "AC" what ever the Freq is to pulse the rotor will be riding on this "AC."
A rotor is A Coil of wire wound around a chunk of Iron that is "FIXED" to produced AC Magnetics, "Look at a Rotor," Google a photo. The Shape of the Rotors design also effects the wave form to the stator, A triangle. Think about it.
1. An alternator is a Transformer, A Transformer that Requires DC at its primary coil before it will work properly, It outputs AC. And alternator ususes 12 volts to produce, and step the voltage up to about 30 volts. Since there are 3 phases you add the voltage, and voltage difference together to get about 65 volts of Alternating current. The alternator was not designed for Ac, if you use Ac you probably will not get anything from the stator, you will probably Abuse the system.
Stop saying alternator, Start saying a Dc to Ac Transformer that Moves, rotates. Think about how it works, Put your mind to it.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 03, 2009, 04:21:03 am
Webmug, thanks for the picture, however it looks extra complicated :)
to out/dank/warp
None of you are explaining why pulsing the rotor is good, so here I am at my same conclusion, and yes, adjusting rpm will change frequency, so sure, adjusting the rpm of the drive motor is a better option than pulsing anything. Did Stan actually control the rpms from the drive motor? I am starting to seriously consider this option, however the research I have to back up that idea is slim.
I do have a VFD laying around, Variable Frequency Drive, I might look into that for controlling my drive motor if I figure that is useful.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 03, 2009, 06:57:33 am
A 3 Phase Generator Can Produce Harmonics, At a "Certain RPM" and at a "Certain Amplitude" Harmonics Exist!
Now, Today, you understand that the Right Rpm, With the Right Amplitude will Produce Harmonics.
1. Ohms Law Incorperated. If you know the Speed of (Rotor), and if you know the Amplitude, You can Calculate the Frequency of which these harmonics happen.
2. If you know the (Freq) at which the harmonics happen, and you know the Amplitude, you can calculate the Needed Rpm.
3. If you know the Speed of Rotor, and you know the freq of harmonics, you can calculate the Amplitude.
Gaining harmonics is Possible at many Rotor Speeds, it is possible at many amplitudes, and it gernates many frequencys of harmonics. It happens that the Water Fuel Cell likes the harmonics produced at 3500 Rpms, "That Area."
These Harmonics Can Contain Other Frequencys on them, Not only are they harmonics but when you use a pwm you can Insert Other Frequencys on these harmonics that can cause viberations. Just like Tesla stated;
Any change of behaviour of a coil Can be transmitted Amplified and picked up, "Harmonics Can Too Carry Information." Just as the am or Fm Radio.
The Harmonics in My Case, At 3500 Rpm, Carrys a Signal produced from a 700Hz to 1k hertz pwm Which produces Square waves with Harmonics Riding On the top of these Square waves, The Amplitude to the rotor is around 5 to 8 volts, And in them harmonics is more waves.
When you are Looping the output of the alternator to its Input Rotor using the Loop Methode Square waves are Produced, The Current flow from the stator is Restricted by the Fet wich acts as a resistor at a Frequency which Pules width modulates the rotor, This causes Square waves to be read across the fuel cell when using an oscilloscope and in them square waves are harmonics at the top, In them harmonics is Viberating waves that most oscilloscopes can not see.
A 3 Dioded Alternator FULL waved Rectified Produces Higher Amplitude Harmonics, Using 6 Diodes to full wave Rectify Produces Lower Amplitude Harmonics, You can Full wave Rectify with 2 diodes, ("2") or 6. When using 2 the voltage will be much higher and resonance will be much Lower, when using 6 the voltage will be much Lower and the resonance will be much higher.
As seen on the scope, 2 diodes at resonance produces Tall Harmonics, 6 Produces very small harmonics.
The RPM is Related to ("Harmonics") which is an phenonomon of 3 phase electricity. Why can you Make the alternators Output Feed its input? Because it is Moving with Kinetic energy which is why it is not perpetual motion. What is the advantage of an alternator (Transformer) over other Transformers, Why was it selected? It moves, Feeding itself from its own produced energy is just 1 advantages, There are Many others.
This Wave From Simply Tickles the water, When will you figure out stan did not run his car on the alternator. The alternator is a Simple Device that can take you Days to understand! But it is simple.
If you do not disect it, and make your self learn what each part does you will always be in wonder, However The alternator is ("Only a Transformer") with advantages over other transformers because Kinetic energy controls it meaning what is not possible with normal transformers May be possible with this transformer.
Theres so much to an alternator, To much to explain and most forgotten.
Rpm, Revolution Per Minute. If it spins at 3 Thousand Revs Per Min, How Many Times does the Rotor Rake across the Stator? There is Plenty math to be done on any alternator, Each is different. Not All Alternators work at 3500 Rpm's because some are Smaller, Their rotors may not contain 8 or so Poles, Some contain 6 or etc,,. Wye and delta differs also, Wye is for longer distances and delta for shorter, I've worked with both and Delta is the stuff.
Thats just a small comment from me on the alternators, In My Mind, Stan was not running that car on that Tube cell, A Tube cell Can Never Produce 7 liters of gas per min of that size, More like 500 CC's if you push it. "If he ran that car, He was hiding something." However, Resonance across a fuel cell is very nice to view, As i have viewed it, But no special Production in gas output. In all my setups the max of my production was 600 cc's using 12 tubes, Its a wast of time and money, it is clearly not what he was doing. Allthough, it is not a wast of money if it thrills you to do stuff like that, You pay to play, Eventually you'll see this is not the setup, Then comes the question,, what was really under the hood?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 03, 2009, 07:26:30 am
Hydro I disagree , this is unconventionnal electrolysis .
There is no need for electrolyte , that is a major factor .
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 03, 2009, 10:24:18 am
Webmug, thanks for the picture, however it looks extra complicated :)
to out/dank/warp
None of you are explaining why pulsing the rotor is good, so here I am at my same conclusion, and yes, adjusting rpm will change frequency, so sure, adjusting the rpm of the drive motor is a better option than pulsing anything. Did Stan actually control the rpms from the drive motor? I am starting to seriously consider this option, however the research I have to back up that idea is slim.
I do have a VFD laying around, Variable Frequency Drive, I might look into that for controlling my drive motor if I figure that is useful.
Pulsing the rotor: It is a way to inhibit amps and to get little bumps on top of your squarewaves.
@all: As is shown in the Testreport, Stan was using around 40 AMPS in his alternator setup. So, where do you read that his alternator was doing something different?
Steve
Steve
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 03, 2009, 18:09:59 pm
40 Amps includes his Drive Motor, he might be using 5 amps in the alternator and 35 amps in the motor. I haven't figured out why he needs such a big motor yet, i'm using a half horse power and it will trip the 10 amp breaker if I load it heavy. I've read in the International Report that he uses a 2000 W motor, and some simple math says you might be able to put up to 50 amps into a motor that big, I haven't checked with an actual motor like that though.
But think about this, if your whole system uses 3000 watts for example, and you get enough gas to power a 5 hp motor, then you come out on top by a whole horsepower. Once you are on top by 1 horsepower, nothing is stopping you from being on top by 50 horsepower and then driving your dune buggy down the road.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 03, 2009, 20:07:03 pm
40 Amps includes his Drive Motor, he might be using 5 amps in the alternator and 35 amps in the motor. I haven't figured out why he needs such a big motor yet, i'm using a half horse power and it will trip the 10 amp breaker if I load it heavy. I've read in the International Report that he uses a 2000 W motor, and some simple math says you might be able to put up to 50 amps into a motor that big, I haven't checked with an actual motor like that though.
But think about this, if your whole system uses 3000 watts for example, and you get enough gas to power a 5 hp motor, then you come out on top by a whole horsepower. Once you are on top by 1 horsepower, nothing is stopping you from being on top by 50 horsepower and then driving your dune buggy down the road.
Thats why I'm using a variable speed drive to keep the motor running at fixed speeds. Even when the magnetic field in the alternator is building up, the motor will be regulated at the desired RPM with the load. Perhaps Stan did not used this because it was not the KISS method and used a big motor to keep the alternator spinning, even when it was creating big magnetic forces to slow down the motor. So he used a big HP motor to keep the alternator spinning. This big motor needs a lot of current without a variable speed drive.
My variable speed drive can deliver 10 amps at max. But this is only when the motor runs and when the alternator is creating big magnetic force at the pulley. Normally its using less than 170 watts of power.
br, Webmug
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 04, 2009, 02:18:32 am
40 Amps includes his Drive Motor, he might be using 5 amps in the alternator and 35 amps in the motor. I haven't figured out why he needs such a big motor yet, i'm using a half horse power and it will trip the 10 amp breaker if I load it heavy. I've read in the International Report that he uses a 2000 W motor, and some simple math says you might be able to put up to 50 amps into a motor that big, I haven't checked with an actual motor like that though.
But think about this, if your whole system uses 3000 watts for example, and you get enough gas to power a 5 hp motor, then you come out on top by a whole horsepower. Once you are on top by 1 horsepower, nothing is stopping you from being on top by 50 horsepower and then driving your dune buggy down the road.
40 amps 12.5 volts 500 watts.
40 amps / 9 tubes = 4.4 amperes per tube, 12.5 volts per tube. 12.5*4.4 amps = 55 watts per tube.
55 watts * 9 tubes = 495 watts, The Driver motors amperage was not included, We know he used a 2k watt motor.
"Hint"
As stan states he used a DeReguLated Alternator. The Known Voltage across 9 of Stans Tubes was 12.5 "With No Regulator."
Why was the voltage not 30 to 50 across the tubes, "Because a Load Brought the voltage Down to 12.5 volts @ to diodes Full"
Experiment; Was not possible to get the voltage down to 12.5 Volts across 9 Tubes,, Solution, 2 ways to full rectify, The Solution to gaining 12 volts instead of 25 is Full recting with 2, Or 3 Diodes, That will Bring the voltage down.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 04, 2009, 02:22:42 am
Hydro I disagree , this is unconventionnal electrolysis .
There is no need for electrolyte , that is a major factor .
40 Amps, (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((""""""""""""""""4.44 Amperes Per Tube"""""""""""""""""""))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))), Nothing Unconventional about that at 12.5 volts, Ehh... As i Stated, Stan was NOT producing 7 liters a min, He lied!
As i Stated, It is NOT POSSIBLE for 7 PSI in a 1 "Liter Cavity" to be Equal to 7 Liters of gas!
(""I Done the test, I confirmed it") Now, you confirm it, you see stan lied.
Reverse Engineer the Test of Evaluation Report, You will be Stumped at what you find, I reverse engineered it ("Hands On") So Please, Take this under Consideration.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 04, 2009, 02:31:13 am
EveryBody Here just learned 1 thing, That is, As stan stated 12.5 volts to be across the 9 Tubes. You should Know this is not Possible with 6 diodes, You have Now just confirmed he HAD to be using 2 Diodes, The 3rd Diode is OPTIONAL, You do not have to have that diode.
Also, using 3 diodes, Means Less Gas output. Reverse engineer stans work guy's, Get that report and break it down as i have already done, The Report was monitored in process, Somebody got "Slicked" and the report was given.
Btw, Salt water gave the most gas production. If you read, you will see that cleaner water gave less gas output. Additives Destroyed the system AS STATED in the report.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 04, 2009, 05:40:53 am
Hydro, these results (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/Picture1-2.png)
are for the Delco Remy Alternator, not the Rotary VIC, which is the Ford Alternator
So... it still says it is better than electrolysis, what exactly was different about your results?
I have the same setup, however by tube length by cell is 7% of his, so it's not really balanced for power source vs cell size.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 04, 2009, 06:27:35 am
The setup you posted is the setup where stan Claimed to Produce 7 Liters of hydrogen a Minute.
2) Tested Gas Rate, 1 liter cavity @ 7 Pounds Per Minute Gas Production Rate. 3) 1 Liter Cavity = 1000 cc of gas volume = 1 Lb of Gas Pressure. 4) 1000 cc x 7 Lbs/Min = 7000 cc Gas Volume / Min. 5) 420,000 Cc Hourly, (7 liters a Minute)
A 1 liter cavity at 1 Psi is said to be equal to 1 Liter of hydrogen. A 1 liter cavity at 7 Psi is said to be equal to 7 liters of hydrogen.
"(A 1 liter cavity at 1 Psi is no where near 1 liter of hydrogen! A 1 liter cavity at 7 psi is no where near 7 liters of hydrogen!)"
7000 Liters Per min / 9 tube cells equals 777.78 cc of gas per tube per min. 12.9 CC per ("Second") per Tube.
777.78 * 9 tubes equals 7000 Liters per min.
12.9 cc per second, Per Tube 116 cc of gas ("Per Second") for all 9 tubes, 116 * 60 seconds 7000 liters/Min.
There is such a Gas law, Volume Temp Pressure Mass, The math applies! However, No calculation is needed when you can simply test a 1 liter cavity under the pressure of 1 or 7 Psi, and measure the gas as it is released. It is Impossible for a 1 liter cavity to contain 7 liters of gas, ("Any Gas") at 7 psi!
I doubt the sum of stans entire cell could have held 6 liters. Depending on his "ID" determines the Depth needed to Create such a 1 liter cavity. In my case, A depth of about 2.5" to 3" (Forgot) at 5.75 ID at 1 to 7 Pounds of Pressure.
I was also able to Gain 7 Psi in almost minute using a (1 liter cavity,) Which confirms you can produce 7 psi in one minute using a 1 liter cavity, Very possible, However the Stored gas is not equal to 7 liters, More like half a liter.
Stan; Create a 1 liter cavity, Let your production Pinpoint 7 Pounds of pressure in one minute, Let the 7 Pounds of Pressure Be 7 liters of hydroxy.
Done, Everything works perfect, Accept you will not measure 7 liters, only 0.5.
12.5 volts across 9 tubes at 40 amps is Full waved at 2 diodes, Where 6 diodes would have given a Much higher voltage reading across the 9 tube cell, Assuming he Drawed 4.4 Amps Per Tube at a Very LOW Voltage Would Confirm very contaminated water.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 04, 2009, 06:47:49 am
With my current setup I can't have a one liter "cavity" because my tubes go near the top, I might have room for a half liter cavity.
I should try some tests like this to wrap my head around it better.
However, these are not the results we really need to replicate, he wasn't using this when he was running the dune buggy. I'm more interested in the fact he was maintaining 13.75 psi and idling the dune buggy, that would have to be some nice production, and it was using the Rotary VIC. This was also with 5 volts and 2 amps on the alternator, which doesn't count the load from the motor, but I can put that much across my alternator with a half horsepower motor, which is up to 370 watts, so it might appear he was using even less than 370 watts to idle that dune buggy? We know the VIC Coil was designed to run on 40 watts. It only makes sense that his systems required less and less power as he built newer ones.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 04, 2009, 08:18:14 am
You are Cheating if your tubes are sticking up outta the water into the cavity... I'll bet if you cheat, a 1 liter cavity still wouldn't equal 7 liters of hydrogen at 7 psi;)
You wouldn't be cheating by much though. Come to think about it. Just because he remained pressure at 13.75 doesn't mean he was producing an entirely lot, He could have had an 100 cc to remain at that pressure.
However (Gas Law), When you release a Gas Vapor From under Pressure, (Pressurizing gas causes Heat) and hydrogen is the number 1 gas that Reacts to heat, Into a Lower Pressure Line or (Condenser) there will be a Drop in Temp In the Line because it acts as an condenser and there results A Liquid synthetic gas, Also, When a Gas rapidly converts from a High Pressure to a Lower pressure conversions take place, Or lower temp to higher or even incorperated and vice versa.
Ambeint air can also be converted into Lox by pulling the plug on an air compressor, "It can Freeze your hand also."
Stans Water Splitter was Defined to be an Expansion valve/Metering device as seen in his video, Those are Built to be set according to the type of refrigeration your running, "They have set screws," However theres no telling what stan done to it.
As i remember, When i thought I "Ionized the gas" I later found out I was at a High pressure using a "Metering device" to release the gas into a Line at a lower pressure, There resulted in a Wet Flame 11 inches in length. That was when i thought the bug zapper ionized the gas, However the bug zapper had nothing to do with it, it was the "Temp Pressure change that caused it." I was so agravated about certain things that I never told anyone other than stevie when i found out how it was done. No wonder i couldn't never do it again, The gas in the cell has to be warm and the pressure has to be Leaked threw a metering device to a lower pressure line before this conversion takes place.
I'm wasting to much thread space, Sorry.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 04, 2009, 08:46:44 am
I wouldn't run the cell with the water level below the tops of the tubes, that's why don't have room for a one liter cavity... right now... I do have a longer acrylic tube ready to be used, I just need to make a longer rod to hold it.
I agree you don't need to produce much to maintain pressure, but if you are only making 100 cc/min then you only get 100 cc/min to run the engine, and his engine was 1500 cc, probably going 700-1100 rpm at idle, and he was using the exhaust gas to modulate the burn rate, and the exhaust was coming out cool, so he might even have been burning the hydrogen at an even lower speed and temperature than gasoline.
I don't understand how 7 psi in a 1 liter cavity is 7 liters of gas, it is odd that he would do the calculations like that, they are two different unit systems... imperial and metric... mixed together... and somehow they line up with perfect round numbers, but I don't think it's important to get caught up over calculations. We know he had success regardless of these calculations.
I will do some tests on a measured cavity size, and time my psi, currently only have a 5 psi gauge, but like I said, my cell is 7% the size of Stan's, so I don't expect his same production.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 04, 2009, 23:36:47 pm
The electric motor for Stans demo cell is one hp.It is a large ford alternator.I've seen it first hand and it was at 1725 rpm.The pulley ratio is @ 2:1. As for the 7 psi equals 7 litres,test it.Just take a one litre bottle and presurize it to 7 psi,then do a inverted bottle test and see what comes out.Also remember that once the pressure is gone you still have one litre left in the test bottle. Easy enough to test.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 04, 2009, 23:58:56 pm
The electric motor for Stans demo cell is one hp.It is a large ford alternator.I've seen it first hand and it was at 1725 rpm.The pulley ratio is @ 2:1. As for the 7 psi equals 7 litres,test it.Just take a one litre bottle and presurize it to 7 psi,then do a inverted bottle test and see what comes out.Also remember that once the pressure is gone you still have one litre left in the test bottle. Easy enough to test.
Yes, The alternator Produced 12.5 volts at 40 amps, 500 watts of electrical energy. The Driver motor you say is rated for 1 Hp, It is very Understandable that not all of the Hp was needed to cause 500 watts to appear out the alternator, However if there was 1000 watts going to the fuel cell that 1 Hp motor could not have handled it.
Why do i point this out? This Confirms stan full waved with 2 diodes, The voltage across the cell also confirms it. If he Full waved with 6 diodes there would have been higher voltage across the cell, and more current flow would be needed, And, More gas would have been produced.
If you fill a 1 liter bottle up with Air, and pressureize it to 7 Psi, you would think there would be 7 liters there, However test confirms that is not the case. The way you worded that can very well cause doubts because just by reading it the reading is thinking, "I has to be 7 liters" by dynodons method.
I stated, "I done such a test as you described, and the results for 7 Psi in a 1 liter cavity was 500 cc's of gas measured." If there had have been 1 liter left in the cavity at "0" Pressure then just add that to the 500 cc measured, 1.5 liters. But, that is also not so, I would have be "Dancing around the room."
If that was so, I would have been running engines a long time ago.
However, I mentioned a while ago that I had a secret to share, that i would have to shoot a video. I have not got around to do ing this. It is related to Pulsing pressure out of a Volume cylinder containing any gas. The test shows what you have pointed out about the 1 liter staying in the cavity, However, Capping it with a Psi gauge, "You can watch the pressure rise." I will video this when i get the time.
The test Proves that Pulsing/Releasing Gas spirts at high pressures can cause a Growth to accure inside the cavity, and the growth can be Read using a Psi Gauge which is why it will take a Video to explain such a thing.
In other words, It is possible to Pulse out gas, and Remain at a high Psi, Something happens to the mass of the gas when the "Pressure changes" inside the cylinder. It could be that the liquide synthetic gas created by .05 liter is equal to 7 liters of hydroxy gas.
Now, everyone understands something "Strange" about that test report, And when someone confirms what i'm saying to be true it will be even stranger. Lets wait and see what donald says after he tests the cavity, Lets see if the results are suprising to him.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 05, 2009, 02:46:38 am
Yea my results were low, but I do have a tiny cell! I should build a full size cell just like stans...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 06, 2009, 11:44:21 am
Where does it state that the 12.5V is accross the tube? 12.5V is the primary coil voltage, voltage across the cell is determined by the rotor speed.
but then again, 12.5V is called electrical attraction force
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 06, 2009, 21:12:44 pm
The first sentence, Tested electrical power loading 12.5dc @ 40 amps dc = 500 watts
Then he states 4.4 amps per tube, 4.44 * 9 Tubes = 39.96
"To Be Clear" He Full waved Rectified the alternator using only 2, or 3(Optional) Diodes. With a load 12.5 volts is then possible when there is a 40 amp Load, This would bring the 31.2 or so voltage down to 12.5. However, This could not happen across the 40 amp load if he would have full waved with 6 diodes, like we have been doing, he would have read about 25 volts across the load if he used 6 diodes.
The Voltage Across the load Depends upon the given voltage "power source," And load. In some cases, you can even bring house hold electrical power "120 volts" down to 110 volts if the load is great enough.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 07, 2009, 11:15:52 am
This one functions as a VIC, HV develops across the cells: (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/setup.png)
those V and A in the illustration are measured. In my view, speed and more windings in the pick-up coils are variables for voltage across the pickups and towards the cell, HV, higher than 12.5V - yet 500 watt is sent to the coils and cells.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 07, 2009, 12:38:41 pm
The Photo Donaldwfc posted, Similar to yours, States at the Top.
12 Volts (Across One Tube) @ (4.44 Amps) Produces 46.6 Thousand Cc's of gas (Per Hour at 55.5 Watts)
This would mean One tube cell During The above test in the evaulation was producing 776.6 Cc's of gas per minute. Also, The Single Tube is Said to Produce 13 Cc's of Gas in one second. Again, For 9 tubes, Each tube producing 777 cc's per minute Multiplied by 9 tubes is 7 liters of gas Per minute, (Thats Impossible by the way/Unproven.)
It was said 12 volts was across the fuel cell during this test, Using the Rotary Pulse-Voltage Alternator. 5 volts was put into the rotor coil and it was intensified to 12.5 volts, Its clearly a voltage intensifier circuit, There is no argument there. The photo which you have provided is the schematic to the setup in the test of evaluation. The Circuits in the test of evaluation had simple flaws, Almost as if by accident. But for good cause.
It does not take a Genius to figure out why that report was documented the way it was. He simply did not want his circuits Replicated for some apparent reasone which is why they are "Flawed" in the test of evaulation report, The can not be constructed as drawn.
I do not doubt the circuit you posted to be the circuit stan was using, I feel as if he left nothing out of that, However, You guy's Seriously need to stop for a brief minute and take under consideration "What happened between stan and all the guys the day the evaulation report was documented and witnessed."
There is to much, Simply, "To Much" Evidence at hand that a Investigator or scientist can use to rule that test Bogus, Out of the roof. However, It is very fun to test these setups and continue on, With that said, You can not get something from absulutly nothing, you simply have to have something to start from if its just a "Black Hole," But if someone finds a black hole, "Someone had to put it there." Hope i didn't go over anyones head with that one hehe.
Continue on the road you wish to travel, These are just my comments, However, Resonance is key to efficiency & to add, If someone Manages 7 liters using this setup, "I will not be surprised," As the magic in the water is well over my head, By no means let anyone choose your way for you because the knowledge of water will never be fully known, Some force once parted it, I myself have never seen a ufo, If they are real, This could change many laws. 200 years from today, where will this technology be, Knowledge seems to grow, Or, How did they get the big rocks up there in the first place...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 07, 2009, 15:48:35 pm
That schematic and results are from the Delco Remy Alternator. I can't explain the results, except that all of us who have 'replicated' that circuit and system have all used different sized and shaped cells. The person that could verify these results most accurately would be MrBlueSky/neworleans, because his cell is pretty much exactly the same size and configuration. But even on that note, I think he uses spacers on his tubes, and Stan doesn't. I don't use spacers, my tubes can vibrate beautifully, but my cell is a lot smaller.
I believe the cell is specifically designed just as much like a musical instrument as it is an electrical instrument, and it is the optimum size to compliment the alternator he is powering it with, and all of us have not respected this relationship in our tests.
And even more than that, this topic is about the Rotary VIC, something none of you have ever built or tested, something that I had to figure out for myself, because nobody on the internet has ever before figured out it's design and shared it on the internet. I hope you'll build it and test it. I hope you'll give me input and suggestions and share your thoughts on it. I hope with some cooperation we can get some results.
The time, now, is to try new things, build new things, and ask new questions. We can discuss old things, and share experience, if it helps us move forward. This is a new topic, with new information, for new progress, and for new success.
Unipolar Crossover Voltage Pulse-Train, lets go!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 07, 2009, 19:22:55 pm
Whats that phrase,,, "Geter Done." :P
Man, We need a wider selection of smiley faces!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 07, 2009, 21:54:35 pm
this is a perspective i came up a while back ago of how the rotary vic was wired for each phase... 0-20 khz 50 percent duty pulse on primary.. i see the alternator having a center tap for each phase.. the center tap being tapped into the negative stainless choke in the multi spool bobbin.. see the copper wind being only one hooked to the stator output.. the stator neutrol ground going staight to ground... i see the outer copper choke constantly being hit and removing electrons to the point of being in a high positive vacuum charge around 2 stainless chokes.. i see the positive stainless being connected the primary side and is feeling the pulses primary is recieving. maybe causing some type of ruber band effect on the amplitude being broadcasted by the positive stainless into resonant cavity... i dont know.. never had the money to try to experiment with it. ignore the copper negative choke i have drawn in the pic i do not think its needed..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 07, 2009, 23:57:10 pm
I have a radiation tester, and for fun i checked how strong the radiation field was around the alternator with 8 volt on rotor at about 3200 rpm with a two platecell in a bucket of water.
I had to step back more than 78" !!! ( 2 meters ) away before the alarm beeping stopped and red lights become green!!! So we are exposed to heavy high frequency radiation near an alternator i action... strong field.. Maybe Meyer died of radiation danmages....... maybe i should remote control the setup....or start it with a long cable..could be a good idea for explosion safety too.. :D
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 08, 2009, 16:34:29 pm
Warp,I can assure you that the diagram of the Rotory Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator is true to form.I have had the chance to see the inside of that box,and it matches exactly!I will also be getting a chance to open up the alternator soon to see if it's the original one Stan used.I will be working with the owner to put something together soon to release to the public.We have a few ideas to put together,so stay tuned. Also I have made my own alternator like show in the diagram,with only three diodes.Still need more testing later.Right now I am on the vic stuff.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 08, 2009, 19:53:08 pm
@dynodon
very good news, im glad to hear the owner is opening to the idea of public showings of the mechanisms.. im guessing orion project has backed out of their deal.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 08, 2009, 20:43:24 pm
Warp,I can assure you that the diagram of the Rotory Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator is true to form.I have had the chance to see the inside of that box,and it matches exactly!I will also be getting a chance to open up the alternator soon to see if it's the original one Stan used.I will be working with the owner to put something together soon to release to the public.We have a few ideas to put together,so stay tuned. Also I have made my own alternator like show in the diagram,with only three diodes.Still need more testing later.Right now I am on the vic stuff.
awesome! keep up the good efforts :)
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 08, 2009, 22:31:37 pm
Why doesnt the owner simply just release every single schematic of every single item in his possesion ?
Nobody is gonna hi stuff anyways , perhaps because nothing he has actuaally works ??
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 09, 2009, 01:07:14 am
Meyer`s secret is not exactly patent drawings... I smell a * here...you will find this out by testing in 3 Years like i have...see what Meyer said himself in my attached PDF.. make your own version of this.. it can be the right one.. ;) Keep up the good work Donaldwfc.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 09, 2009, 05:02:54 am
I said that the rotary diagram was probably drawn Correct, and that the digital logic side was Screwed, That are Not drawn correct. I cant remember the details but i do know any electronictist can tell you by just looking at the digital logics, they will not work.
I left plenty of information in this thread for 1 to research to draw their own conclusions. I also stated, The system was tweaked and that tweak is not on paper, This tweak is hardly talked about but you can hear stan talk of it in his video. When you put 2 and 2 together you learn this.
Stan used 6 diodes on the 7 liter a min claim, It is Not possible to Produce 7 PSI a minute in a 1 liter cavity using 3 diodes, "As i know," However, he stands firm by his 3 diodes. My research shows in that test he used 6 while Documenting he used 3, "This further confuses it." However, To the one that wants to read each of my words in this one particular thread, They can learn something of value.
You will not find what you're looking for, Stan lied about the setup, "Inside and out," The proof is comparing what i've stated to what data we have, Comparing can take up to 1 year and isn't something that can be directly confirmed however i know.
I do not help if i cause de motivation, i can't help i see over others that Refuse to agree to the fact stan lied. I also stated i would not be surprized to see 7 liters a min produced. Master the entire system and then you will see, Until then I expect you to be in denial because what you can not compute is not your fault. Get disecting, As my hours in this field means NOTHING, and was a complete wast in time, But for me, I benifited.
Also, i was not joking about pressurized hydroxy turning into liquid, creating a liquid flame. This is all common, it use to be used on hydrogen heating and cooling units. There is a word that describes the needed pressure before the gas will convert, We already confirmed 13 psi to work however the temp has to be hot, Cold gas at that pressure will not convert. There is much going on that you guy's "Are behind on." Still looking for that free hydrogen,, I may not be ahead by far, But I do have sense on how things can work,, And it is possible to run a car on low amounts of hydrogen i just have no more time for research right now. Stans brother, On tape, he talks about how complicated the process is, "Nobody understood what he was getting at."
Im talking outta my pea brain head again,,, Guy's nevermind me,,, If my opinions bother you just look over it as i mean no harm, Honestly, i do not, But my opinion need be here for others sake as I have spent,,, Full time hours in this stanly meyer field, as clearly seen.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2009, 03:23:52 am
No Activity in the Building,,,, I feel like i am the cause of that.. Please, Do not let me discourage you, But, since nobody has posted in 2 days, I'll Give you guy's something to read for the meantime, And of course, something for you to think about.
As you have learned by listening to me, i have produced 600 cc's with the tube cells, "Nothing special" just tubes with spacers. With that said, I've been waiting for "Sometime now" for someone to attempt that 600 cc's I have produced, I'm still waiting, Its not an easy score to beat when you are using "a normal tube setup" and alternator.
Ahh, 600 cc's was not normally possible with my setup, "Thanks to 3 phase" it became possible, It was no longer 350 to 450 cc's, 600 cc's became possible with the alternator and no additives.
Stan has a special setup, it also is related to 3 phase. As pointed out you can gain 7 psi in one min, in a 1 liter cavity using 6 diodes, But 3 diodes falls along the lines of impossible, "Unless you hit a wild resonance," I hit it but the gas never came.
So, stan likes the 3 phase alternator, and he likes his 3 diode claim which "Cuts the voltage in half" a load of 12.5 across the load cell, 40 amps, Giving 7 psi a min "Which i stated to only be possible with 6 diodes."
How about the electric cars, "EV's." They use Dc electric motors, "No regenerative breaking." The Range about 65 mph and are good for about 60 miles, The systems are rated a DIY about 8,000 dollars, That includes all the needed materials to diy. One problem with the Dc EV's is that Hills seem to "Kill" the car if you live in a hilly area, Another is its Efficiency is not all that great, "This is enough to cause anyone in their right mind not to build an EV."
A simple solution is a 3 phase electric motor, However the cost is more but the efficiency is much better. Special Power inverters are needed to convert dc to 3 phase ac, "However when the motor is not turning the engine the engine is turning the motor, in return this generates power back into the battery." It's a win win situation.
Do any of you guy's remember that 3 phase generator in one of stans videos, it was about 18 inches in diameter, it was huge.
Stan stated that his fuel cells worked from 180 degree out of phase ac rectified "on video," He stated that he did this 3 times at 120 deg out of phase in the Test of evaulation when he documented the rotary alternator converter. Clearly, Stan has stated that he likes to use 3 phase on his cells.
I produce 5 liters of gas using a series cell, I think I got about 63 plates. I use 120 volts rectified fully and a capacitor, i get about 180 volts across my cell 144v across 15 plates.. I know if i use 3 phase instead of single phase i will produce 2x more than 5 liters, I just don't bother with testing it. If i was to use 220v 3 phase, and add more plates, "I could have the Ev's Crying in my laps."
Converting a power box of batteries into 3 phase, LIKE what they do with the elctric cars, Accept it wouldn't be powering an 3 phase motor, but fuel cell "a long series cell". This is some of the "Bullets" thats good to have. Just a small heads up, Since, nothing seems to be going down here.
If such an EV system, Well, Bluntly, battery pack and 3 phase inverter was used on an "Series Plate Cell" Given you enough Gas to run an engine,,, Well, "Whats the Reginerative Breaking, OR massive horse power of the engine have to do with keeping the batterys charged anyways.
At 3 phase, it would be ideal for a cell to consume 220 volts at atleast 8 amps, "3 phase." 1760 watts.
We all hear know what the alternator can do to a tube cell using 3 phase, "Stan Patented that." But what was stan doing with all those 18 inch in diameter 3 phase generaters seen on his buggy in old photos, "The ones nobody talks about."
What exactly did stan actually patent,,, And, Why exactly is the process so complicated.
* I was board, thanks for listening to my confusing vent.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2009, 04:48:15 am
I don't understand this 180 degrees out of phase stuff.
I've explained it before, to clear up the misconception, but if there is still something going on with 180 degrees then i should learn about it.
As far as I know, the only time stan says 180 degrees is when he says "The water fuel cell technology is 180 degrees out of phase with the electrolysis process"
and by this he means low amps, high volts, which is the complete opposite of high amps, low volts. This is what he means by 180 degrees out of phase, he means the complete opposite.
But, he does mention the chokes restricting current by 90 degrees.
the EPG comes after the Rotary VIC, so I'm not ready to deal with it, but we can talk about it if you want.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2009, 06:08:12 am
I am just so busy with school and work right now . but I am actually having my first AC course .
And its SOOOO easy , impedance and rectance and resonance is easy to calculate when AC source is involved .
Theres quite alot of difference between VA and watts , people need to learn how to calculate real power hre , wich = heating .
You cant just see amps and volts and multiply the two , thats not how it works .
I recommend everybody to learn about vectors .
All you need for all calculations involved here is vectors and know how to calculate a square angle triangle sin cos tan .
I will be making my calculations here and showing how its done to calculate your load impedance and how to match it , Its even possible to know your Henries value and farad values with a simple equation if you have a simple fluke amp meter .
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2009, 06:11:43 am
Hrm. .
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2009, 16:35:48 pm
Stan has a special setup, it also is related to 3 phase. As pointed out you can gain 7 psi in one min, in a 1 liter cavity using 6 diodes, But 3 diodes falls along the lines of impossible, "Unless you hit a wild resonance," I hit it but the gas never came.
I'd have investigated this. You should had to vary the voltage on the primary, Meyer did this by tuning the variac - when he adjusted it, bubbles started to appear. Voltage level _does_ play a role.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2009, 17:30:15 pm
Dankie, good for you, but you are completely off topic.
Warp, I understand what you are showing, but I don't see how it is used in Stan's work, or how it is special. In fact that is not how you would properly use the term "out of phase" in physics or electronics, If you'll let me explain...
In this picture you see two waves traveling on the SAME wire in opposite directions, and it shows when they meet, how the amplitude changes, and the amplitude changes with perfect simple addition and subtraction of the two waves at the points that they meet.
If you have two waves of equal amplitude, and they are 180 degrees out of phase, then they will combine to cancel out, just like you see on the left of this picture, a straight flat line.
And this has nothing to do with Stan. If you are wondering how the alternator uses this, then you have to realize that each phase is on a SEPARATE wire, until you rectify them, then join them together!
When they show a 3 phase wave form like yours, that means they are all separate, if they were actually on the same wire, then you would see addition and subtraction like the above picture describes, and the wave form would be useless. And you can try it too, connect all your wires together before the diodes and see what happens.
Also, 3 phase is 3 wires 120 degrees out of phase with each other, not 125, 120+120+120=360.
Now we could get into the Crossover Voltage Burst Sync-Pulse
Take a look at this and you'll see the 3 phase positive and the 3 phase negative are on different wires, shown after the diodes (the diodes for the negative side are on the center tap, because of the bemf they are not needed in the same location after the chokes)
You see where he "combines" the positive and negative wave form at the cell, he actually has the water bath grounded, which means that one plate creates a positive voltage with respect to the grounded water, and the other plate creates a negative voltage with respect to the water, but the voltage waves don't cancel with the adding/subtracting like above because this is not on a WIRE, it's just an electric field crossing the water gap, so instead of having +500 volts on one side and -500 volts on the other, and them adding up to 0 volts, you actually have a difference of 1000 volts between the plates. Imagine dropping a rock from a tower, into a hole just as far. Your rock will not fall zero, it'll fall the full distance.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2009, 17:50:03 pm
Alan, you are right, but I want to point out a related fact.
V=RI
voltage = resistance * current
you adjust the voltage on your variac, and voltage goes up
but resistance in the rotor is constant, because it's the same amount of wire all the time
so if you double voltage, you double current if you quadruple voltage, you quadruple current going into the alternator.
When you increase voltage on the variac, yes you are increasing voltage, but you are also increasing current just as much, so now we have to consider, what is actually getting the job done? is it the increase in voltage that is doing the work, or is it in increase in current that is doing the work?
Then you also have to realize that when you double the voltage, you double the current, which means you double the magnetic field of the alternator, which means your drive motor has to draw more amps to keep turning the load, so when you increase your voltage you are actually drawing more energy into the whole thing than just from the voltage itself.
You need to realize that increasing voltage on the variac does not work the same way as a transformer, a transformer uses a turns ratio which controls voltage in vs voltage out, where as the alternator uses magnetic field strength caused by current flow in the rotor, and rotation speed from drive motor to control the output from the alternator.
That being said, this is a normal alternator set up, and what we really want to do is MAKE SURE that it is the voltage doing the work, and not the current, so we need the magical Rotary VIC which will give us the desired output from the alternator.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2009, 19:38:47 pm
I was under the impression you knew nothing about phases, When i stated 125 degree's at the bottom, i was half way asleep. I drew that up for you "Should have checked over it this morning before posting." You can see by looking at the top i knew it was 120, after a while of drawing i started to get tired, and my boy was raising hell at me in me being mean, and my wife wanting to go, I guess i slipped.
I am no longer under the impression that your lost on phases, And yes, you stack the coils 120 degree's apart as you said.
You sure learn quick.
Some EV's also generate 3 phase wave form, Why remove the engine when its so powerfull.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2009, 19:48:07 pm
Alan, you are right, but I want to point out a related fact.
V=RI
voltage = resistance * current
you adjust the voltage on your variac, and voltage goes up
but resistance in the rotor is constant, because it's the same amount of wire all the time
so if you double voltage, you double current if you quadruple voltage, you quadruple current going into the alternator.
When you increase voltage on the variac, yes you are increasing voltage, but you are also increasing current just as much, so now we have to consider, what is actually getting the job done? is it the increase in voltage that is doing the work, or is it in increase in current that is doing the work?
Then you also have to realize that when you double the voltage, you double the current, which means you double the magnetic field of the alternator, which means your drive motor has to draw more amps to keep turning the load, so when you increase your voltage you are actually drawing more energy into the whole thing than just from the voltage itself.
You need to realize that increasing voltage on the variac does not work the same way as a transformer, a transformer uses a turns ratio which controls voltage in vs voltage out, where as the alternator uses magnetic field strength caused by current flow in the rotor, and rotation speed from drive motor to control the output from the alternator.
That being said, this is a normal alternator set up, and what we really want to do is MAKE SURE that it is the voltage doing the work, and not the current, so we need the magical Rotary VIC which will give us the desired output from the alternator.
Also, you said when voltage goes up so does current.. Thats right, But, This is why you use a series cell, I stated a while back, if you know the voltage you can calculate the needed number of plates. I run about 144 across 30 plates, And you can do 30 more, Then you can read 288 volts across the 30 plates when each set of 30 has 144.
(you add plates to keep the current down, and voltage up.)
However, 120 was my only source of voltage, if i had 220, or 220 3 phase, I would have bought more plates and i would have produced more than 5 liters.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2009, 20:47:54 pm
Yea sorry, I understand phases, but I don't understand how Stan uses them "180 degrees out of phase" in the WFC tech, and I don't think he does, I think that was a misunderstanding from his other comment. He does say the chokes restrict current flow by 90 degrees, I don't know much about that, but I think it is important, and I really want to learn what this means.
It is unlikely that i'll build a series cell, I would only build a plate cell if I wanted to build a variable spacing plate cell, but that would be for demo because I know Stan's variable spacing plate cell produced a lot less gas then the tubular array. The reason why stan built that was to prove that the cell is a capacitor, and varying the spacing varies the capacitance, which means the electric field is weaker, (electric field is measured in Volts per meter, so he has the same voltage, but changes the distance), and thus varies the production, because in an electrolysis cell, the plate spacing doesn't matter much at all.
If I build anything other than a tube cell, it'll be a concentric sphere cell, because I have never seen any one play with these and stan does have a fair bit of documentation and video-time on them.
Warp, you should get your cell out again and try some of this stuff! Build a Rotary VIC :P
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2009, 21:44:57 pm
That would be fun, But it will have to wait until after december, Or longer. Who knows.
If i do this again, ("I will do it right,") Meaning, A battery pack to be installed on a Car, Normally this pack runs a 3 phase inverter that Runs a 3 phase Motor mounted Directly to the transmission. But, when you include a water fuel cell you do away with the 3 phase motor and put a fuel cell in its place, The left over horse power from the engine would help keep the battery back charged, you could also add Solar panels.
Ev's have their downfalls, So will the wfc, It is possible the wfc could be better BUT the EV's Frown on ICE.
A fuel cell can run a car using this methode, No doubt.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2009, 22:05:21 pm
Yea, hopefully after I build the Rotary VIC i'll run a small engine... the maybe build a bigger cell and run a bigger engine.
before trying to get inverters and drive motors and stuff all mounted on a vehicle I think we should do some hard investigating into the setup stan uses in this video
We know this is a tube cell powered by the rotary vic, right?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 12, 2009, 01:19:35 am
why not just use only positive outputs from stator... attach neutral side straight to ground..
the effects that i can see are a 50 percent duty supplied by the alternator.. your only relying on positive uni polar pulses into a bifilar choke.. the choke is wound with two wires of equal length.. meaning the energy transmited to one wire is mutually inducted and will apply a potential to the second wire..
the alternator is a ac generator and being rectified will allow it be dc at a 50 percent duty.. the drawing shows the use of the stator neutral in the resonant cavity.. means your pushing just as many electrons into the cell as you are pulling out of the positive choke..
i think if you allow the earth ground to be the negative choke connection rather then to neutral you will be relying more on the force of vacuum then the force of electron in the resonant cavity can show better results...
think about this as well
whats happening during the 180 out pulse in the stator winding? electrons are being compressed toward the positive chokes diode then when the positive pulse comes around it has 0 resistance to ground and will start off as a current but it will run out of electron for current. due to the positive chokes resistance to current.. could this create what stan reffered to as the electron bounce phenomenon in secondaries?
now think of this which sounds more harmfull to dielectric and electronic componets? the force of electrons into choke wires with the use of emf or the force of vacuum to remove them??
now if you were to only use the vacuum on the choke and no force of electrons from the secondarys emf you are only relying on positive pulses to supply the bifiliar you are forcing a vacuum state to occur in the positive choke.. since for one it is dc.. means current flows one way.. for 2 the only source for electrons if through the water.. at the same time the only source for electrons are across the cell... what is happening to the negative choke when it is fired on by the secondary? on the positive pulse it is pulsing both positive and negative choke of time when 180 out you are getting a emf pulling electrons out of the negative choke...that does sound like dc to me since the negative gets the effects of the 180 out pulse..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 12, 2009, 01:27:28 am
i think stan was using a old school utilities truck inverter to power his electric motor in this video setup above.. on the passenger side is the inverter looks like a electric motor.. the driver side is a electric motor and a alternator... on the first video of stan running the car by his garage you can notice that there is a alternator on the motor bottom rear driver corner in that relative region..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 12, 2009, 01:32:52 am
Stan clearly pointed to the above photo, and stated that it was a Boiler "Plate" configeration. Now I realize, The patent was all about 3 phase, and I also realized the confusing stuff stan adds in really doesn't amount to anything, It just helps keep your mind elsewhere.
Id say he did a pretty good job Patenting his device. If one wanted to, he/she can patent 3 phase while claiming crazy stuff like voltage performs all work, The actual patent does not have to relate to the actual device 1 bit what so ever, he could have very well stated that the device produces flammable water, Just because its in the patent does not make it so, (Its the Law.)
One may have in the past, patented a Walky talky, and given a schematic for how to make Car tires with blue prints in the patent, Patents does not describe the device, I could patent a round ball, and make the patent about an Iron Brick if i wanted, There is no law against this, In fact, Our law is for it! I could also preach about my Rubber ball by talking about an iron brick, Which is basicly what stan was doing.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 12, 2009, 01:39:31 am
i think stan was using a old school utilities truck inverter to power his electric motor in this video setup above.. on the passenger side is the inverter looks like a electric motor.. the driver side is a electric motor and a alternator... on the first video of stan running the car by his garage you can notice that there is a alternator on the motor bottom rear driver corner in that relative region..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 12, 2009, 03:05:38 am
All Stans patents were filed under mode of operability, which means you have to demonstrate them to get the patents, and he says he used the boilerplate configuration to get all his patents, so this is the cell he is talking about in his "preferred embodiment" which is always concentric tubular arrays, as he says they are 3.75x more efficient than plates.
You are only going to cloud your understanding of Stans systems of you don't believe the patents are about what they are about. Dynodon has confirmed on numerous occasions that the things he has seen fit exactly with the documentation we have. Which is fabulous for us, and I am thankful for Dynodons contributions and efforts.
If you don't trust stan, you'll never understand him, and this one of the biggest problems I see others having when trying to figure this stuff out.
You have to look at what Stan did and what he talked about and what he wrote down and think why did he do that? What does this do? Which part does this relate too? and soon enough you'll be piecing things together like I have with this topic! We need more people thinking about this information as clues, and to plug everything together. Everything he says adds up if you count all the pieces properly.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 12, 2009, 04:25:28 am
Hrm, I would just like to state, The date i registered at waterfuelcell.org is about a month or 2 after i had started researching stan. I would also like to add, eight, (8) hours a day was nothing, I contributed about 12 hours most days, "Including sundays" and to be honest, I do not remember a day that i didn't research stan. Some days "I didn't even sleep."
The research i did was "More" than an 40 hour week job, "I simply loved what i was doing." And, Dating back i have about 3 years Plus "OverTime" Researching nothing but stan. Again, for 3 years, "I isolated my self from the outside world." Up until a few months back, "I backed off."
By now, I think i have a Pretty good ideal what stan was up to, Not to speak, "I spent all me hard earned dollars" on that man.
If you want to end up where I am at, its going to be a long confusing road, I've been down that road already. I'm just stating to you, in my mind, This appears "Silly," Thats as far is i will go with that. I have given Plausable recomendations of how i think stan was running that beetle, And, best by research it best fits his explainitations.
I do not mind watching you, "Try" to attempt the road i've already been down, Which is why i am stepping to the side.
It was my goal to put here what i could Before i ran out of time, It's now here what i wanted to share. It is here now in one spot not strolled all over hundreds of post. These are my words i wish to leave behind, And the words are good.
I wish you all the best of luck, finding resonance of which stan demonstraights, Good Luck.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 12, 2009, 06:41:30 am
such a mystery this Meyer like Keeky and Tesla .
These guys were in communication with being of greater existence , that is the only possible answer .
The Meyers cell , How could it be so special ?
How extensive is the tuning involved ?
What is even happening ? How do we even tickle these parameters ?
In my dreams have visions of superposing graphs ... But I dont even know what those parameters are ? 8)
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 12, 2009, 14:30:29 pm
Hrm, I would just like to state, The date i registered at waterfuelcell.org is about a month or 2 after i had started researching stan. I would also like to add, eight, (8) hours a day was nothing, I contributed about 12 hours most days, "Including sundays" and to be honest, I do not remember a day that i didn't research stan. Some days "I didn't even sleep."
The research i did was "More" than an 40 hour week job, "I simply loved what i was doing." And, Dating back i have about 3 years Plus "OverTime" Researching nothing but stan. Again, for 3 years, "I isolated my self from the outside world." Up until a few months back, "I backed off."
By now, I think i have a Pretty good ideal what stan was up to, Not to speak, "I spent all me hard earned dollars" on that man.
If you want to end up where I am at, its going to be a long confusing road, I've been down that road already. I'm just stating to you, in my mind, This appears "Silly," Thats as far is i will go with that. I have given Plausable recomendations of how i think stan was running that beetle, And, best by research it best fits his explainitations.
I do not mind watching you, "Try" to attempt the road i've already been down, Which is why i am stepping to the side.
It was my goal to put here what i could Before i ran out of time, It's now here what i wanted to share. It is here now in one spot not strolled all over hundreds of post. These are my words i wish to leave behind, And the words are good.
I wish you all the best of luck, finding resonance of which stan demonstraights, Good Luck.
Respect for that. If you want to render your hard work and tons of hours time to something valuable, share all your notes and tests with us, so people can continue with your findings, without reinventing the wheel. [or is it already online?]
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 12, 2009, 16:53:45 pm
That's a lot of time Warp, a lot of dedication, and I would love to see it pay off with a working WFC. I know you got that VIC working with the high voltage, which is something nobody else has shown, but there is more to be done, and more things to try, and to take things to the next level.
Maybe after you get your stuff done in December you can reconstruct that VIC with the high voltage and we'll see if we can take those results and nail down the exact important specs and components so we can reproduce it and take it to the next level.
So many things haven't been tried, EPG, Mixing Exhaust Gasses, Rotary VIC, PLL Driver, Spherical resonant cavity... Even the Variable Spacing Plate Cell for which we have all the schematics for. Stacked resonant cavities... Hydrogen Gas Gun. Stan spent over 20 years on this, so we can't have figured everything out in even 5 years. It's going to take more than this.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2009, 11:48:26 am
There is more than the 3 phase alternator and the simple alternator schematics he shows in the techbrief involved: look at the 2 pics below, one taken from video above which is his old design version with alternator, and one from his latest versions. There are similarities. I think he is doing something very important right there.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2009, 11:58:00 am
the same old model with alternator. I wish I can see what`s there written on all the labels right next to each led and switch !
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2009, 16:49:18 pm
I think I can help with that wish.Enjoy!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2009, 17:21:35 pm
Don, thank you sooooo much! Great pic. It answers many questions!
Steve
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2009, 18:21:11 pm
Thank you Don, that is a wonderful picture !
Knowing that that cell uses 10 tubes is useful, I might imagine they are 10, 3 inch tubes, do you have any details of the other cells or systems this ties into?
Here we see it on the dune buggy in this set up. It might be nice to see what that Resonant Cavity looks like.
Just so I don't have to keep clicking on it to view it, i'll re-post the full picture here too, i hope nobody minds (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/PICT0003.jpg)
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2009, 18:51:13 pm
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/untitled.jpg) Here we see the same, or similar, Resonant Cavity, and some other components, I am not sure why the RC and the Injectors are shown together, becuase they are used in different systems, but maybe just for comparison.
Here is another picture of a set up on the dune buggy that shows the same type of RC (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/untitled1-1.jpg)
Something I just realized, is that the Gas Processor does not have a driving circuit in the same place as the SR and the RC's, so it must be driven independently... more details there too look into.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2009, 19:47:40 pm
So he made 1 single design that must have taken forever to tune and just replicated .
10 tubes , 10 VIC's , 10 PLL circuits
The only thing thats hard to tune to the cell is the very exotic VIC , the PLL is not that hard compared to tuning that VIC to the small cell , there is probably some impedance match with that VIC , it needs to be calculated .
Do you have the exact cell dimensions or that was taken away ?
The owner should take off one of these 11 boards and post it so we know how he was really pulsing that VIC .
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2009, 23:21:57 pm
In series resonance xl and xc must be = , current will be maximized and in phase @ the source and = to whatever your R component is . And voltage @ the borders of each reactive component will be maximized .
But the VIC has 2 parralel RLC networks that resonate ( do they ?? ) and one series rlc that also resonate , not too bad ... Problem is that the XC water component is a mystery , does it really provide a 90 degree extra phase shift ?? Its XC mixed with R paralell wich is actually in the water , the phase shift will be reduced by a good % , so more heat . Second problem , we are using a square inpulse with a diode ! DOPE ! Not an AC sine signal with no diode ... Or perhaps he is matching the really reduced XL-R//XC-R of the choke to match the really reduced XC//R component of the water bath and still getting his XC=XL series :P
So basicly this means you have to factor in fourrier analysis is you wanna come close with just algebra on paper calculating the L and C components , the classical pi equations are no good here , and the diode .... These two things makes this difficult .
Lets say you have to add mechanical vibration of w/e tubes you have , this will oscillate @ a fixed frequency . This reduces your movement so to speak to play with numbers , your frequency will have to be factored in when you calculate .
Illogical things I notice is that the inner winding capacitance will never be as big as the XL of the choke , this whole section (7-5 from tech brief ) looks like a pain to match , an outside capacitot may have to be used . I would be amazed if he was relying on the chokes capacitance for this , that too is another calculation .
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2009, 23:40:35 pm
I can't seem to get anymore pictures to post here.Lets see if this goes through ok.This site takes forever for my post to go through or even get on.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2009, 23:50:56 pm
Tried three times and can't get anymore pics posted.Any reason why.The picture is 1.7 mb.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2009, 00:54:23 am
Try creating a new thread and see, could be the File type, try converting it into a smaller jpeg or something, 1.7 MB is sure big for a photo so it must not be a jpeg?
The Server might need rebooting.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2009, 01:40:14 am
Hi Don,
Can you try again? All signs here are green, so i am not sure what is happening. Is the file without virus? Can you send the file to my emailadres? Then i can check it.
Steve
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2009, 09:12:49 am
THANKS very much Dynodon !
Now it is much more clearer ! It is a certainty that Stan is using:
10 resonant cavities(tubes) with a VIC on each of them, Also he is using phase locked loop circuitry for maintaining resonance on each cavity. He also have a test jacks on each card, probably for checking out resonance using an oscilloscope.
This is my theory: I think that he is charging water in a in a step by step manner. Cavities are connected in series. As water passes from a cavity to the next one it gains a little charge when at resonance. The effect may not be seen with a single tube setup because the amount of charge gained is little to show any significant gas production, however when water is charged through all the 10 resonant cavities (one after each other), Bingo ???
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2009, 10:32:30 am
Now it is much more clearer ! It is a certainty that Stan is using:
10 resonant cavities(tubes) with a VIC on each of them, Also he is using phase locked loop circuitry for maintaining resonance on each cavity. He also have a test jacks on each card, probably for checking out resonance using an oscilloscope.
This is my theory: I think that he is charging water in a in a step by step manner. Cavities are connected in series. As water passes from a cavity to the next one it gains a little charge when at resonance. The effect may not be seen with a single tube setup because the amount of charge gained is little to show any significant gas production, however when water is charged through all the 10 resonant cavities (one after each other), Bingo ???
Very good out of the box thinking Hydrogenmask!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2009, 17:36:14 pm
It would be great to see more details of that cell if possible, to confirm how the RC's are linked, I am thinking 10, 3 inch tubes, so it might be 5 sets of 2 RC's in vertical series, considering the shape of the cell, and assuming that he doesn't take the gas off the top of one cell and bring it down to shove in the bottom of the next cell, which i think would be much more inefficient then just vertical arrangements.
Also the VIC coils must be in that control box with the circuit boards, since we don't see them anywhere else, and he calls it the "Voltage Intensifier Unit"... and considering the space... they could be toroids, which are thin... and could be stacked inside that box, also the Control and Driver patent is the one that describes this system, and they show something similar to a toroid for the VIC.
Still leaves questions for the Steam Resonator, it uses the PLL too, but how do we set the temperature range, i assume it would maintain a constant water temperature, so maybe those set-screws are for adjusting something like that.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2009, 19:01:29 pm
All the different pictures Donald posted of the different applications of the cell,are of the same cell.Even the injector system with the cell is the same one.There were two basic injector systems.The one that used the cell in the above pictures,were only flowing gasses through them.The othe type would convert water right at the injector. As for the cell itself,the tubes are all wired seperately to each vic controller card.They are arranged just like the demo cell in a circular pattern.There was 11 tubes total.But one wasn't used.You could tell that because one was clean and 10 were dirty.Also,there wasn't any white coating on any tube.There is just a large cavity for water and gas.Water flows up through the tubes from the bottom out the top under pump pressure.Each tube can be turn on or off without effecting the other tubes. As for the set screws,they are just pots with a lock feature.The vic coils are in the box,they are attached to each card.And they weren't torrids,but two "U" cores with seperate coils for each primary,secondary,feedback and two chokes,all seperate.It looks just like Stan draws in the diagrams.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2009, 20:10:11 pm
So Stan tried everything , there is no "concrete design" , it seems like alot of designs were tried .
The lenght of the tubes has a special significance here or what ?
Matching the electrical wavelenght of the tubes or just cutting it at the right height to accomodate a good bandpass region of what should be his electrical resonance ?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2009, 23:07:28 pm
DYNODON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are my hero :D
It is connect *almost* exactly like i said too!!!!!!!!!!!!! I said trifilar, he says two of them are bifilar, in SERIES!!!!!!!!!!! The differece between trifilar and bifilar for this probably wouldn't hurt and would make it easier to wind, but knowing this i will wind the chokes together and the secondary alone, and then put them in.
What gauge wire is that? any guesses? I'll have to find out, but this is PERFECT.
Any ideas on the diodes?
Dynodon, thank you :)
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 14, 2009, 23:19:50 pm
Don did you see the U cores for the VIC that go in that box? What sizes are they? Core material?
This is awesome
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 15, 2009, 00:09:47 am
"Water flows up through the tubes from the bottom out the top under pump pressure"
Is that what the odd shaped thing on the top of the cell is? a pump? How is the pump connected to the bottom of the tubes? Are they 3 inch tubes?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 15, 2009, 00:13:09 am
dynodon,
thanks bunches for sharing..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 15, 2009, 02:54:25 am
The cell was set up so the water feed goes in through the bottom and up through the tube sets.The tubes are set into the base of the cell container,meaning they are completely sunken in the base.They are only 3 inches long and 11 sets.The unit on top was a blow off valve/pressure relief,as well as a gas outlet.There was also a return port in the center of the cell for the water to recirulate back to the tank. The core was two flat U cores about an 1/8 inch thich and about 1/2 wide.Each leg was @ 2 1/2 inches long,and @ 2 3/4 inches total width.They came together to make a closed core.They looked just like his drawings to the letter. As for the wire size in the alternator,I haven't seen one.My guess would be around 30 gauge.They were a ferrite type material.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 15, 2009, 03:58:59 am
Thank you, perfect :)
I went to a garage today, looking for a Ford Alternator, saw one there EXACTLY like Stan's, All the round holes in the back, and small rectangle holes around the edges, but it belonged to someone else so I couldn't get it. I'll hopefully get something to play with soon.
It would be expensive to build the cell that way with the tubes sunken into the bottom, expensive for that large diameter, thick, piece of Delrin. But stan always built his stuff to top notch quality.
He must have had some nice production to require a pump forcing the water through :)
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 15, 2009, 17:12:39 pm
The vic coils are in the box,they are attached to each card.And they weren't torrids,but two "U" cores with seperate coils for each primary,secondary,feedback and two chokes,all seperate.It looks just like Stan draws in the diagrams.
SS chokes? :)
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 17, 2009, 16:32:36 pm
I picked up my Ford Alternator from the garage yesterday, they found me one, just like Stans :D. Took it apart, started cutting the wires off the stator... It'll take a few days work to get it cleaned up and rewound, and it'll take a week or two to get the diodes... It'll take a week or three to get the circuit board stuff figured out. With school and everything it'll go slower than I'd wish, but this is ground breaking progress!
The Rotary VIC is on it's way!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 17, 2009, 17:15:57 pm
I picked up my Ford Alternator from the garage yesterday, they found me one, just like Stans :D. Took it apart, started cutting the wires off the stator... It'll take a few days work to get it cleaned up and rewound, and it'll take a week or two to get the diodes... It'll take a week or three to get the circuit board stuff figured out. With school and everything it'll go slower than I'd wish, but this is ground breaking progress!
The Rotary VIC is on it's way!
Nice work donaldwfc, keep us (visual) informed about your progress. Maybe it's handy we update the RVIC circuit schematic, how the Biffs and the Phases are wind in the stator for the first version:
- type of wire - thickness of the wire - how it's wound / Biff / Triff - how many wounds - type of diodes
I think the printed circuit board is not needed for the first version, we can solder the parts to the coil leads, saves time. I don't want to destroy my citroen alternator windings at this moment before I figure out how this RVIC can be build step by step. :-\ But you are right, sometimes it's better to start building this ** thing for real and figure out how it actually can work as depicted in the patents.
Does it matter what type of Ford Alternator we are going to use (pickup truck)?
br, Webmug
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 17, 2009, 21:30:29 pm
I picked up my Ford Alternator from the garage yesterday, they found me one, just like Stans :D. Took it apart, started cutting the wires off the stator... It'll take a few days work to get it cleaned up and rewound, and it'll take a week or two to get the diodes... It'll take a week or three to get the circuit board stuff figured out. With school and everything it'll go slower than I'd wish, but this is ground breaking progress!
The Rotary VIC is on it's way!
on a real alternator, if you Unwire one yourself,, you will see that one winding is wrapped opposite from the other 2.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 18, 2009, 18:34:43 pm
Everything to do the RVIC is explained here, all my diagrams and winding instructions are proven correct, except for the trifilar/bifilar detail, I don't know the wire gage, turns, or diodes yet, once I get the Stator cleared of the old windings (which is quite the job since I don't want to burn it off) then I can play around with how much wire I can fit in the coil holes, I said I'm thinking 30 gage, but I am not settled yet. The diodes I am thinking MUR1560, but I am not settled yet. I am thinking I'll wind the chokes bifilar and the secondary alone, and stick them in, this detail was clearly from the recent picture Dynodon posted.
The alternator I have looks almost exactly like Stan's, there are a few differences with the brushes, but everything else is the same, the alternator was easy to take apart and everything was simple and straight forward, I think Stan knew what he was looking for when he chose this alternator. It's a lot bigger than the Delco Remy too, it's huge!
I imagine you could use any alternator you want though, this one looks like it will be a 'nice' alternator to work with, everything is set up nice and simple, especially for all the input/output connections. I would say grab a new alternator so you don't have to destroy your old one. Then again, go right for the proper Ford Alternator, because if you're going to figure out Stan, you should follow the details as close as possible, I am clearly going to be happy working with this alternator over any other kind I could pull apart, I took apart a dodge alternator and it was fairly horrible compared to the Delco, and the Ford was the easiest by far.
I'll need to build a winding jig too, once I figure out the sizes and such for the coils.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 19, 2009, 21:16:36 pm
Delco remy made, and still makes big alternators, but Stan choosed the one that was made for ordinary cars...like 1965 Chevrolet impala or 1969 Pontiac firebird or Cadillac deville (ordinary cars at that time ) The next alternator Stan used was a 24 Volt aircraft alternator. :)
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 19, 2009, 23:42:42 pm
What information do you have that stan used a 24 volt alternator? Pictures?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 20, 2009, 17:50:50 pm
Older heavy duty Ford alternators do look like Stans, but still not the same.. i couldn't find a alternator in the whole world that looked EXCACTLY like Stans until i found out that ford had a special aircraft version.
This is only my guesswork, but i feel i am correct. You can get a 12-15 Volt to a small aircraft, but i don't think Stan choosed an aircraft alternator type of 12v when you could get 12-15 Volts everywhere. He was a high volt guy...So he used 24-28 V. This is one more bite to the puzzle. I got more bits here...but i miss one or two and i am working on it.
He probably didnt change nothing @ all from the alternator he used , because its expensive and a load of trouble .
Who ever said it was rewound ?
He probably just added his circuit and calculated everything on a factory alternator , however its made , it needs to be calculated so w/e ...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 21, 2009, 05:12:34 am
I think you are right about that aircraft alternator, I'll have to look into it more, It is similar to the truck alternator for sure, I am trying to consider what the differences would be.
I know stan Stan says in the first dune buggy video that he applies 5 volts and 2 amps to the alternator, that means the rotor has a resistance of 2.5 Ohms, and as far as an alternator goes for being a "12 volt" or "15 volt" or "24 volt" alternator, all I can imagine with my current understanding is that this would be the way the rotor is wound, so yes, maybe you can rewind the rotor to have a different resistance and then have different input voltage/current relationship.
I do know that Stan always seems to go up to about "5 volts" on the variac, and this is even on the schematic posted in the first post, so if he has a 12 volt or 15 volt alternator, I am not sure what the difference would be. See, the rotors magnetic field depends ONLY on the current flowing, not the voltage, so when he is sending 2 amps to the rotor,I think it gives the same magnetic field as if he was sending 2 amps at 5 volts or 2 amps at 20 volts, this may not be exactly correct, because the electrons will actually be "drifting" faster down the wire, but for designing sake, i think this is the important part.
I may go to the airport and ask some engineers about aircraft alternators, I used to work at the airport but its a small airport so I don't think i'd be lucky enough to pick up a similar ford aircraft alternator.
Thanks for pointing that picture and link out!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 21, 2009, 06:05:30 am
Just my opinion.
I think the aircraft alternator will have higher quality bearing rating and essentially be the same beast as the Ford truck alternator. Don't know about 12 or 24 volt. But I remember I had a bunch of aircraft panel pilot lights and am pretty sure these were all 6.3v.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 21, 2009, 18:47:52 pm
It is okay, to help people up from the field (windings) sometimes.. :D
If Stan started in 1975 and had his first patent allready i 1980 or 1981 on the first rotary vic water fuel cell system.... He could had figured this out maybe a couple years before he took patent on it!
Piece of cake?.. :)
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 21, 2009, 20:58:10 pm
Btw... My alternator is a 24V Leece Neville, often used in boats, and i have a scary speed of 6000 rpm on it. You don`t need to find an plane man...lol
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 21, 2009, 21:56:56 pm
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 22, 2009, 03:32:18 am
This site here http://www.nationalairparts.com/
They might cost $700 though...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 22, 2009, 07:52:46 am
As of 2009, If you can use a Belt thats wide like todays newer cars use Instead of an Old V belt, Try it! You will be surprised at how Less racket the unit will make, In one setup, I made hardly No racket. When using this type of belt the racket made will come from an Out of balanced or wobely Pulley not the belt.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 22, 2009, 17:09:14 pm
What is the picture of? for?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 22, 2009, 17:49:21 pm
Warp are those used for DC motor speed?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 22, 2009, 20:05:53 pm
yes, i found those thought you all should see them.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 22, 2009, 21:01:09 pm
Any reason to use a DC drive motor with variable speed?
I could try variable speed AC drive motor with a VFD but I would have to have reason to believe this would increase gas production before I'd try it. I am way to busy with university right now anyway, just wrote a Thermodynamics exam! aced it :)
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 22, 2009, 21:29:15 pm
I believe by changing the rotational curve or speed of the motor driver you will be able to see a real time update of gas production done as a lab experiment.
It would be nice to see this production and measure all the variables (volts, current) as you modify the motor speed.
You could better track the whole speed range and log all the data variables easily.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 22, 2009, 23:35:47 pm
They also look similar to stans pwm.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 25, 2009, 01:45:51 am
Is there any chance the redi-line generator was a part of the VIC on the buggy?.. Not only for the driver motor...does any photo/video show where the wires goes from the blue redi-line gen?.. just wondering. :)
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 26, 2009, 20:37:24 pm
I was thinking that could be a possibility... see the motor-alternator set is a "rotary converter" which converts 120 VAC into the high frequency DC pulse voltage stuff, so if you get a "gen set" like the rediline generator and then open it up and rewind the output section like a RVIC... and you could have an all-in-one-unit... with probably higher efficiency, the only thing is... you would have to get a get set that is designed to output the high frequency... because a normal genset would only output 60 Hz
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 26, 2009, 22:56:07 pm
Donald,
Are you starting with rewinding an alternator accoording the new info from Don?
Steve
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 27, 2009, 23:32:26 pm
I have been so busy with university, I haven't had time to touch the alternator since I got it. However, my father has finished removing the old wire from the Stator, which was nice of him! So I have a bare stator to play with once I get some time, the thing is I have 8 assignments/papers/labs/projects on my to-do list all before MONDAY so I won't be getting to it this week or this weekend... I really wish I had the time.
Some other good news is, I finally got my Quenching Circuits!! I ordered some Alumina Tubes, 3 of them, these are the Stats on them, i have one of each. 6” length: Single Hole Round Ceramic Insulator, OD (in)=0.047, ID (in)=0.016 Two Hole Ceramic Tube Insulator, OD (in)=0.062, ID (in)=0.016 Four Hole Round Ceramic Tube Insulator, OD (in)=0.094, ID (in)=0.016
So I have 16 thousandths holes, the proper Alumina ceramic material that Stan mentions in the videos, these have a high melting point, and will maintain their shape. 1 hole, 2 hole, or 4 hole, for different levels of gas production...
I will use these to build a flame nozzle on the top of my cell like Stans, so I can burn the gas right off the top for demonstration. I will also use these for "in-line" flash back protection, at any place that I have gas flowing out of or want a flash back protector. I will just machine little brass fittings and then insert the ceramic into them, maybe a 1/2 inch piece of ceramic.... Stan says 1/8 inch of this will stop it 100%, but I can do tests on that...
These just came in the mail, so I haven't had time to build any nozzles yet either, of course I will do rigorous testing with the and a bubbler first to ensure that they do protect 100% for flash back!!! once I am completely satisfied with their performance and my tests then I will use them as I described.
I'll also do some testing on the 1 hole, 2 hole, 4 hole tubes to see what they do for certain amounts of gas flow, considering my production only goes up to maybe 500cc/min with salt water, i will probably be ok with 1 or 2 holes, but I'll have to test this, and the 4 holes will be good for higher production, and i can make nozzles with multiple ceramic tubes for even higher production.
This will be fun, I have lots to play with, when I get time!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 28, 2009, 02:04:05 am
What is the web looking material wrapped around the windings in the pic that don posted?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 28, 2009, 02:35:08 am
Looks like string, (black machinist string), looks like it is "daisy chained" around the loops, i assume to hold the wires nice and neat. I don't know if he had his sealed in varnish or not, but i'll have mine properly sealed and baked.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 28, 2009, 02:44:41 am
I betchya those are the chokes! Non-inductively wound I might add... Reminds me of a caduceus coil winding.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 28, 2009, 04:40:34 am
The chokes are would bifilar in the stator.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 28, 2009, 05:56:00 am
That's what a "Tensor" or "Caduceus" coil looks like, or, at least one way... From what I can see, it is wound on the stator core along with the 3 phase windings. Even the drawings you had posted earlier show non-inductive coil windings for the "Resonant Chokes". A "Non-Inductive" wound coil, also called a "Series Bifilar" is pretty much the same thing as a "Tensor" or "Caduceus" coil. I have rebuilt a few alternators in the past and I have never seen a winding with anything like that.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 28, 2009, 23:53:37 pm
You are misunderstanding Stan's Rotary VIC, and I can't help but say your suggested coil configuration is wrong for this application, so I will merely advise that you review the information in this topic, for it is all outlined clearly, and if you have any points that need to be clarified I will do my best to help you understand.
The simple facts that your suggestion violates are these: All magnetic fields of the coils are additive, it is the magnetic field that is used to restrict the amps, non-inductive coils would be useless The chokes are wound bifilar, meaning "two wires right next to each other", but the chokes are NOT in series with each other, there are extremely important components in between! There are three inductors per phase connected in series, a secondary with the two chokes on the ends
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 29, 2009, 00:36:53 am
You may be right, I may be way out there on this. I was not suggesting any coil configuration other than what the wire is wrapped around the main 3 phases. From experience, I will say that there is no need for a string wrapping to keep the coils all nicely together. The wire is usually stiff enough to hold the form you mold it to. That wire is wrapped around the stator for a reason, in my opinion. I will refrain from mentioning it any longer, for, I have made my point clearly and to carry on would be rude. This is a great thread! Thank you for all the great info!
Bubbles
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 29, 2009, 03:16:21 am
im gonna go ahead and bring up a perspective im not sure if it has been spoken about. the alternator is labeled as a ac generator.. so we all comprehend that is is floping curent on a 50 percent duty due to is geometrical configurations of rotor poles and stator windings.. but ask yourself this question.. what are the difference in the effects at both ends of 1 stator.. really think on this because i belevie it plays a big role in wiring the alternator correctly..
the north pole passing over a stator winding creates a pull on the electron, while the negative pole on the stator will cause a push.. understanding this you can visualize a alternator as a pump. think about how a diode will have a different effect on opposite ends due to the fact that the one direction rotor is trying to pump them... i really think he used a alternator with somewhere around 27 gauge on the stators i do not think his chokes were incorporated into the alternator...
stan said he uses the water for the resistance in the circuit.. imagine only supplying a bifilar choke with positive pulses only from the alternator... imagine the negative side hooked to ground... the alternator acts as a pump right? every time the choke is hit with a positive suck the electrons from the choke and sends them to ground when negative hits the stator it is then pushing them... would the alternator not experience some tye of load due to this arangment.??
must remember that positive rotor pulls electrons negative pushes. one way rotation means dominant direction for current.. i would think you would want dominant direction to be opposite of positive choke...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 29, 2009, 15:58:28 pm
Wow some of this posting is going all over the place.
The meyer photo I see a alternator, there's a couple pictures posted are they of a real meyer alternator insides.
In the Meyer photo there is what resembles maybe a old PWM and it has a protruding part that what, maybe is a large capacitor (I don't know just guessing).
Now I have seen alternator winds come on the stator from the manufacturer or winder looped all the way around then back again as the same wire. This seemed interesting to me and its a normally used winding on a high current alternator then connected in Delta. personally I have not seen this connected in wye but I don't know why not.
Really the bottom line is to have a wind done up as in the Meyer prints. The mosy interesting being 3 coils in series per phase as suggest earlier. The other interesting is the 3 coils but center tapped middle coil, this interests me and can be done or wound 2 ways. Either way you look at it there will be a bifilar wind and a center coil wind per each phase. I think with the interested people we have here there will be a few different try's at this, and hopefully we will all publish our experiments and learn.
What seems interesting is the electronic circuit Meyer is using and it appears to have a capacitor in there, will we ever get that right as the PWM and components are needed to perfect the meyer method.
Hope we get some of this figured out and it would be neat if someone maybe DynoDon to post a picture of it if he actually ever saw this early alternator and power supply.
That would be GREAT!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 31, 2009, 15:14:54 pm
I wonder, to wind the Crossover Voltage Burst Sync-Pulse, with the center tap, you would wind two wires bifilar for the secondary, and two wires bifilar for the two chokes. This is what I imagine at the moment:
If I try this, i'll wrap it with the same gage wire as the stator, and use 3 more diodes the same as the others. The core is from a flyback transformer from a TV/CRT.
It would be nice if I had another Stator, then I could wind both, but I guess I'll have to try one, then get another alternator to try the other... eventually...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 02, 2009, 04:48:53 am
After studying the videos and still shots of Meyer’s demo cell and dune buggy setup, I see what everybody else sees which is the complete unregulated wye wound alternator driven by a 1725 RPM AC motor with something in the neighborhood of 3:1 ratio from motor to alternator.
It’s the same basic setup from the “bench demo cell video”, the “dune buggy idle only video” and the “dune buggy on the road” video. I think we all agree (or at least I hope so) that the AC motor driving the alternator is for the main purpose of maintaining a constant and specific voltage frequency (hertz) that you would not be able to maintain with an I.C.E. which varies from low RPMs at an idle to high RPMs at full throttle. This is why it had to be a fixed RPM and an AC motor was used to achieve this.
In Meyer’s patents, he shows different ways to change the frequency with solid state electronic components however in every single working example (video) he uses the alternator driven by the AC motor. Not the solid state substitutes for the variable transformer and the unregulated alternator driven by the 120VAC AC motor. I’m guessing the electronic substitute circuits were included to cover him should anyone succeed with the same idea from another approach. I don’t believe they actually work correctly (oh, I’m sure they work, but not correctly) or he would have used them himself.
He even went to the trouble of mounting that AC motor which drives the alternator right above the driver’s side rear tire. I personally believe unregulated wye wound alternators emit dicey AM waves as I was experimenting with one and by accident started receiving AM interference feedback from the alternator which changed to a lower pitch when I reduced the drive RPMs. This you will never get with the circuit board version of the pulse voltage frequency generator.
Regards,
Mina
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 02, 2009, 10:46:15 am
In your photo you show biff coils on an E core. Stans vic was also on an E core.
I see your ferrite core. There is a photo of stans rusty core in an aluminum box with a thread there for a diode.
I'm sharing this, Not sure if someone has figured it out yet or not, But the E core stan used is from a Distributor from like an older car. I forget the car, There was a movie about the car , "Smoky and the Bandit." Whatever the car is in that movie, i'm thinking an camaro, The e core can be found on its distributor. Also, some older cars also have that same E core, It also appears to have a bobbin on it as well! The 4 corners also have holes with visible bolts in them. Those cores can be easily removed by a number 7 or 8 socket. Try and Search Ebay for that Distributor which contains the visible E core on the top, it is exactly what stan used.
In response to your photo.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 02, 2009, 22:44:54 pm
Warp,the E core transformer were custom made.I saw brand new laminates in Stans stuff.I'm familiar with the HEI coils your talking about that GM makes.Their smaller than Stans.It would be a cheap core to test with though.Just take apart the coil and use the laminates.But everyone needs to remember that this type of coil is meant for the injector system.It's not meant for the resonant cell or the demo cells. Don
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 03, 2009, 02:27:20 am
dynodon,
if this is for the injector only can u explain to me what difference in the style of choke arrangements that are involved in the water fuel cell and the injector?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 03, 2009, 03:15:39 am
The WFC VIC coil is on a two piece U core.The cores were of a powdered metal like ferrite.It had five seperate coils on it.Primary,secondary,two separate chokes,(not bifiller) and a pick up.They are two different types for different operations.The injector system used a different aproach,with greater voltages. The chokes for the wfc vic coils were two seperate coils of the same size.They looked just like the secondary,I would say they were the same size in shape and wire size. As for the injector coil,I couldn't see under the paper that was wrapped around the bobbin. Don
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 03, 2009, 06:46:10 am
Warp,the E core transformer were custom made.I saw brand new laminates in Stans stuff.I'm familiar with the HEI coils your talking about that GM makes.Their smaller than Stans.It would be a cheap core to test with though.Just take apart the coil and use the laminates.But everyone needs to remember that this type of coil is meant for the injector system.It's not meant for the resonant cell or the demo cells. Don
Ahh, it was an Firebird i think?
Yes, I was Fooled i guess. I only seen stans E core like once, And I was convinced that is what stan used. So you've stated you've seen both and there is a difference, Amazing that stan made his very own. However, I still think both E cores are Soft iron, So, why wouldn't those E cores be about the same as using the one stan used?
Thanks for the tip, I guess stan had his own design, A bit bigger E core than the normal ones i've found. Also, in his patents when using these Soft iron E core, its like the only thing on the core is chokes, Like the Steam resonator core etc,,.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 04, 2009, 03:20:08 am
In your photo you show biff coils on an E core. Stans vic was also on an E core.
I see your ferrite core. There is a photo of stans rusty core in an aluminum box with a thread there for a diode.
I'm sharing this, Not sure if someone has figured it out yet or not, But the E core stan used is from a Distributor from like an older car. I forget the car, There was a movie about the car , "Smoky and the Bandit." Whatever the car is in that movie, i'm thinking an camaro, The e core can be found on its distributor. Also, some older cars also have that same E core, It also appears to have a bobbin on it as well! The 4 corners also have holes with visible bolts in them. Those cores can be easily removed by a number 7 or 8 socket. Try and Search Ebay for that Distributor which contains the visible E core on the top, it is exactly what stan used.
In response to your photo.
(Trans-Am)
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 04, 2009, 03:29:36 am
auto zone 1978 trans am ignition coil 14.99 all day ever day
You would need to have the proper amp inhibiting coil to make this work...
Here is my idea of an Amp Inhibitor Coil / Resonant Charging Choke
@Donaldwfc I think this choke can not function properly because it's not in the same EM field from/in the stator. The bif-choke must be in the stator.
External regulation looks difficult. This could only be done at the Rotor winding (amplitude, pulse, gate, duty etc) but controllable rpm's are also needed, how are we/you gonna do this? Looks like this is brute force electrolysis, I don't know how the copper??? bif-chokes are going to preform in the stator. Remember that -NEG and +POS voltage potential must be created to the WFC di-pole in opposite equal potential and that the copper??? bif-choke is blocking the electron flow "Electron Bouncing Effect". :o
br, Webmug
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 07, 2009, 01:36:32 am
The "amp inhibiting coil" must be a separate coil, outside of the rotor/stator field... beyond that I am not sure exactly how to wind it or what parameters are key.
But you only need the amp inhibiting coil for the second RVIC, and if I ever get a break from my schoolwork I'll be building the first RVIC... and see what I can do with that. It wont require an outside coil or anything fancy beyond the special stator wind which has bifchokes (see a few pages back).
Stan had copper VIC's ... I know his RVIC was copper, and the VIC in the Hydrogen Gas Gun is copper... so we should be able to get a copper vic going, then we can consider the SS wire, of which I have 4000 feet. When I get my wire for the stator i'll ask what kind of voltage it could stand, and see if I'm able to take 1000 volts out of it without arcing through the coating, and I'll have my Stator varnished and baked too.
This shouldn't be electrolysis at all when I get the RVIC, and I wont be pulsing anything or duty'ing anything, however I do have a spare VFD, Variable Frequency Drive, that I *could* use to control the speed of my drive motor, but this would come after the RVIC because I can't imagine it doing me any good now with the Delco Remy alternator setup.
One of the reasons I want to get an oscilloscope soon is so I can familiarize myself with my Delco Remy alternator and it's pulsing waveform, and then the RVIC when I get that going, compare, and see what's going on, and see if I'm getting the voltage and waveform I should be. I don't know much of anything about oscilloscopes now, but when I get one i'll learn how to use it inside and out so I can really understand this alternator. Of course then I want to take this understanding to a solid state VIC coil too.
I should also note that Stan's Electrical Pulse Generator is the [super version of the] Rotary VIC, patent attached, but that will take some real design work to figure out, and I know the solid state VIC would be much easier. You can learn a lot about how the RVIC works from that patent too. (Read carefully, and between the lines...)
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 07, 2009, 13:52:54 pm
Donald could you make a interesting experiment to help all of us? since you have the ferritic wire could you make a air coil made from this wire with about 100 feet of wire and another coil of copper wire of the same length and awg and give us the inductance and resistance of both?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 07, 2009, 15:47:21 pm
Im Planning on selling my WFC Demmo Cell to raise funding to do more Meyer work! Im selling only the Fuel Cell part not the alternator because all it is is an alternator i bought from NAPA nothing fancy and im not selling the black box in my system, all it is Literally is a variac and a bridge rectifier. All you really need is something to apply some voltage to the field post on an alternator. This fuelcell works i have used it alot in my research but i need funding to continue so i figured id sell my baby! Im planning on putting it on E-Bay by november 20th. If anyone wants it before it hits e-bay just private message me! Later dudes!!! Mr Bluesky P.S. a video of it is here:
feature=related
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 07, 2009, 18:56:18 pm
Donald could you make a interesting experiment to help all of us? since you have the ferritic wire could you make a air coil made from this wire with about 100 feet of wire and another coil of copper wire of the same length and awg and give us the inductance and resistance of both?
You mean Stan's SS wire? I could, but am not prepared to do such a test. I don't have the instruments to measure inductance, and I am saving this wire for when I understand the VIC and have a working copper VIC, and then when I am prepared to use the SS wire, then I'll use it, but I only have enough for 2 VIC coils and Zero mistakes. I also don't have any 0.005" copper wire to compare it to if I did make the coil.
Dynodon has done resistance measurements on the wire, his posts about that are somewhere on the forum. John Bostick has built coils out of this wire, and his inductance and other measurements are also posted somewhere on the forum.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 07, 2009, 18:59:46 pm
Im Planning on selling my WFC Demmo Cell to raise funding to do more Meyer work! Im selling only the Fuel Cell part not the alternator because all it is is an alternator i bought from NAPA nothing fancy and im not selling the black box in my system, all it is Literally is a variac and a bridge rectifier. All you really need is something to apply some voltage to the field post on an alternator. This fuelcell works i have used it alot in my research but i need funding to continue so i figured id sell my baby! Im planning on putting it on E-Bay by november 20th. If anyone wants it before it hits e-bay just private message me! Later dudes!!! Mr Bluesky P.S. a video of it is here:
feature=related
I think you should keep it, try the rotary vic first, you have the perfect cell for it! Having said that, I'll send you a message, because it might be perfect for me and save me building one just like it later on.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 08, 2009, 21:54:45 pm
So we have learned, thanks to Bubs, that in 1975 the alternators used on Lincoln Continentals look just like Stans, shown here
So it is likely that this is what stan used, and most likely *not* an aircraft alternator, and 1975 was just a few years before Stan built this system, so that adds up perfectly, he could have bought his alternator new or got it used, only a few years old.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 09, 2009, 15:11:28 pm
here is a pic i made to help understand the board for those who dont quiet get it yet..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 13, 2009, 06:01:07 am
Thanks outlaw, I am glad to see you working on this! and all the others, the renewed interest in the Rotary VIC is awesome.
Everyone:
I want to take a moment to point out again, as I already have in this topic, that the RVIC was used to power the dune buggy,
First with the Demo cell to idle it: Listen carefully to every word he says in this video. Second, in this video, he uses it with a different cell, a much larger tube cell,
This tube cell, called his boiler plate configuration, has been used in the filing and validation of his patents, so we need to read and understand the early patents in the context of this cell.
I think this cell uses 24 inch long tubes, and a large number of them, all powered by this RVIC, so math and testing would have to be done to see what size of cell, with what number of tubes would be suitable for what ever engine you have in mind, it would be easier to start with a 4 cylinder than an 8 cylinder, and i will be using carburetors rather than fuel injection, you need to use the exhaust gasses to modulate the system, so a second carburetor just for exhaust gasses could be used, attached to a modified manifold, there are other ways to do this, but i think it would be easy to control this way.
I'd like to shift the discussion in the general direction from the RVIC, to understanding the whole system it is used in, because we have learned a lot about the RVIC and have a handful of people starting to build it... we can now move the discussion and learning, and research, and focus onto the rest of the system. We know the RVIC can run a 50 hp 4 cylinder, so we need to sort out some of those details.
We know he used the RVIC powered by a constant speed motor, the drive motor needs 60 Hz ac, so he has a rediline rotary converter to provide that - running off of the battery, and we can see he still has a normal alternator on the dune buggy to charge the battery.
This is not a resonant cell, not extremely high voltage, so cell size should be able to be increased without worrying about capacitance and frequency. Variable drive motor speed is something that could be looked into - after analyzing the RVIC with a scope, and looking at the cell configuration, you could do some math to see if adjusting the drive rpm would change the output frequency in any beneficial way, if not, forget about it! otherwise, VFD!
There is no indication of the Electrical Particle Generator on the boiler plate configuration - but there might be - there is one used with the idling with the demo cell. Note the Gas Electrical Hydrogen Generator patent.
Other considerations are, throttle/gas production control, he uses contact switches to turn off and on a number of tubes to control the production, this is a "step function" control, like shifting gears in a transmission. in between this control is variable voltage. I imagine an automatic pressure release valve, set at say, 15-20 psi, with a tube to direct released gasses vertically above and away from the vehicle, with quenching nozzle, would prove extremely useful for safety considerations.
I know you all want a water powered car, lets figure it out. Stan did this first, it worked. Resonant cells can come later :)
Don, have you by any chance seen the boiler plate cell or any of it's controls or components?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 13, 2009, 21:23:02 pm
Donald,that cell in the video is the demo cell he used in the patent office.It's the only one he had.As for the alternator,it's not the RVIC one.This one doesn't have all the chokes in it.This one is just the stock unmodified,and unregulated one that is shown in the Photo Exhibit 11b: Rotory Pulse Voltage Frequency Control Unit.It would be the same one from the video It Runs on Water. Stan states in the video that it's the same unit shown at the patent office.And yes I have seen both demo cells and the controllers. Don
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 13, 2009, 21:54:14 pm
Donald,that cell in the video is the demo cell he used in the patent office.It's the only one he had.As for the alternator,it's not the RVIC one.This one doesn't have all the chokes in it.This one is just the stock unmodified,and unregulated one that is shown in the Photo Exhibit 11b: Rotory Pulse Voltage Frequency Control Unit.It would be the same one from the video It Runs on Water. Stan states in the video that it's the same unit shown at the patent office.And yes I have seen both demo cells and the controllers. Don
Don,
What kind of cell did Stan run on a modified alternator? With modified alternator, i mean the one that has 3 stator wires with bif coils in serie. Can you make a drawing on how the wires are mounted? Just a schematic would be helpfull. I have here some alternators on the shelf, ready to make a good attemp to copy SM. Give me a week and i have rewinded one....
Steve
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 14, 2009, 00:17:00 am
Steve,I have never seen the RVIC used with anything.I'm not even sure what it was intended for.The alternator used on the demo cell is shown in the International test and evaluation report.In there you will see how it was hooked up.It has just three diodes.All it does is apply 120 hz to the stator at whatever voltage you set by the vari-ac.5 volts @ 2 amps like the video.That 120 hz is the unipoler pulses that excite the stator and creates the same pulses out to the cell.
Everything I have seen of Stans equipment first hand,has been exactly as he wrote in all of his papers.I have never seen anything different than he states.So it seems that he has told us no lies.He put it all down in writting.We just can't see the forrest through the trees, so to speek. Don
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 14, 2009, 02:32:02 am
donald,
if you look in the tech the diagrams for this setup is under section 8 "voltage wave guides" from what i see this set up is working toward achieiving a cell with resonant action unlike the international patent.. to me it seems this may be a injector design made for injected water bath.. im also noticing this section is where it speaks of the choke being wound with 11.6 k of stainless so im woundering if these choke windings are supposed to be stainless??? we are on the right path for producing higher yields i think this is alternator version of 6-1..
Universal Energy Priming Stage (500) (particle oscillation as a energy generator by deflecting atomic particles under changing electrical stress); Liquid to Gas Ionization Stage (230)(ejecting electrons from the atomic structure under divergent electrical stress); and Thermal Gas Triggering Stage (E9d) (gas igniting the electrically stress combustible gas atoms farthest from the state of electrical equilibrium) ... triggering Hydrogen Fracturing Process (90) (subcritical-state combustible gases being spark-ignited under Electrical Resonance of Stress).
Voltage Tickling of State Space under "Resonant Electrical Stress" without amp influxing while ''Tuning-~'' to the dielectric properties of water is herein referred to in this WFC Tech-manual as "Resonant Action," as illustrated graphically in Figure (5-4 A,B,C) as to Resonant Cavity (170) of Figure (3-25) as to Figure (1-13
Thereby, preventing coil-ringing during each pulse off-time ... allowing Electron Bounce Phenomenon to occur without amp influxing within VIC Matrix Circuit of Figure (7-8) as so governed by Circuit Resistance Equations (Eq. 9) which, in activated electrical-state, allows positive Voltage Pulse-Wave (583) to be duplicated in succession to form Voltage Pulse Train , as illustrated in (770) of Figure (8-1). Opposite negative Voltage Pulse Train is similarly formed since "Electron ClusteringEffect" of Figure (7-9) produces a "Negative Electrical Voltage Intensity in equalmagnitude to the "Positive Electrical Voltage Intensity during each/repetitious magnetic pulse cycle. Remember, Secondary Voltage pickup coil (52) of Figure (7-8) displaces and separates Resonant Charging Chokes (56/62) on opposite end of said Secondary Pickup Coil (52).
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 14, 2009, 10:55:11 am
Steve,I have never seen the RVIC used with anything.I'm not even sure what it was intended for.The alternator used on the demo cell is shown in the International test and evaluation report.In there you will see how it was hooked up.It has just three diodes.All it does is apply 120 hz to the stator at whatever voltage you set by the vari-ac.5 volts @ 2 amps like the video.That 120 hz is the unipoler pulses that excite the stator and creates the same pulses out to the cell.
Everything I have seen of Stans equipment first hand,has been exactly as he wrote in all of his papers.I have never seen anything different than he states.So it seems that he has told us no lies.He put it all down in writting.We just can't see the forrest through the trees, so to speek. Don
Don,
Can you descripe for us all used methodes of Stan? I think he used like 4 different ones.... When we all agree here about the methodes used by Stan, i will change the forum a little bit. My suggestion is to start new topics for each of Stans methode and start the new topics with a nice drawing of all components used. Then we can go from there.
What do you think?
Steve
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 14, 2009, 20:32:01 pm
Donald,that cell in the video is the demo cell he used in the patent office.It's the only one he had.As for the alternator,it's not the RVIC one.This one doesn't have all the chokes in it.This one is just the stock unmodified,and unregulated one that is shown in the Photo Exhibit 11b: Rotory Pulse Voltage Frequency Control Unit.It would be the same one from the video It Runs on Water. Stan states in the video that it's the same unit shown at the patent office.And yes I have seen both demo cells and the controllers. Don
Don, I agree it's the same demo cell, in the video "it runs on water" and the international report, he shows the Delco Remy, but in the dune buggy video when he idles it for the first time, and in the 1984 news release it is clearly the ford/motorcraft RVIC, the same that is shown in the picture you posted on page 7, Photo Exhibit 11C1. This is also the same alternator he used in the TV news report with the boiler plate configuration, if you look closely. Here is a screenshot from the above video.
Stainless steel wire is only needed when amp restriction is required above and beyond the Inductance Reactance of the chokes, which would be required at higher voltages, when he goes for 20 kilovolts with the injectors.
If you can't build a copper VIC, don't bother with a SS VIC.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 14, 2009, 21:02:12 pm
This is a recap on how to wind the RVIC. [Updated today, November 14th 2009]
Figure out how many turns you can fit in the stator with your chosen gauge of wire, divide this by 6. Wind your Chokes Bifilar, and you Secondary alone, marking each end of your wires. Align these two coils (secondary+bifilar chokes), as they will be put in the Stator as a single phase. You will have 18 "ends" to connect, so make sure you label them damn good. Insert each phase like "normal", with proper winding direction and "additive" magnetic field orientation. When the phase is laid in the stator it will make a complete circle, so the start and end of the wires will meet. Starting from "Negative" Connect "Negative" to "Bottom Choke Start" for each phase. Connect "Bottom Choke End" to "Secondary Start" for each phase.... *Possibly* connect "Isolated Ground" here. Connect "Secondary End" to "Blocking Diode Anode" for each phase. Connect "Blocking Diode Cathode" to "Top Choke Start" for each phase. Connect "Top Choke End" to "Isolation Diode Anode" for each phase. Connect "Isolation Diode Cathode" to "Positive" for each phase.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 14, 2009, 21:36:58 pm
thanks donald for pointing out some good perspectives.. i was reading that kevin west is winding 13 loops with 50 per loop and stuffing them in.. this means he is putting 50 in a groove and placing another 50 in right on top of that one... he is gettin 100 passes of 27 gauge per groove
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 14, 2009, 21:46:47 pm
Yea, it'll take some playing around to figure out how many turns you can get in.
Notice in my winding description above I said divide by 6, this is because you'll have two loops going in each groove, and 3 coils in each loop. which is the fun part of figuring out how much room you have for the wire!
What gauge are you planning on using? I am going to print off the RVIC picture Don posted on page 7 and take it to someone I know who is familiar with wire sizes and stuff, and ask him to guess what gage it is.
Also Kevin is mostly doing Delco Remy's ... so it might be a bit different with the ford/motorcraft stator.
As an example however, 50 turns per loop, 100 turns per groove, you would have about 16-17 turns for each coil for each loop, at 27 gage... nice to know that we would be somewhere in that range, higher number with smaller gage wire...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 14, 2009, 23:06:21 pm
i have a 1600 foot roll of 27 gauge..
do you think that stans output from the rectified phases is pushing somthin like 5 amps.. with the cells hooked parallel it will distribute the 5 amps 10 times leaving each cell around 500 milliamp.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 14, 2009, 23:39:16 pm
I have no idea what the output will be, hence my thoughts on what kind of diodes to try... like i posted in the other topic Stephen Meyer used 1000 volt 6 amp diodes, and I was originally thinking 15 amp 600 volt diodes... It would be great to know what kind of diodes to order, otherwise it's a guessing game!
I would hope that it restricts the amps more than 5 amps...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 15, 2009, 00:13:14 am
lets say that it takes 1 second for a potential of 1 volt to be seen across a cell.. would this mean that if you hit it with 600 volts that it will reach 600 volts in 1/600th of a second???.. would the real time be determined by the dielectric of water.. which can be determinde simply by the time it takes to see 1 volt in frequency appear in the cell?.. by knowing this would you know the frequency at which water is reaching its dielectric breakdown
the water is what creates the dead short condition and you dissapate the load during this condtion in the millamp range due to tuning into the dielectric properties of water.??
all just thoughts..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 15, 2009, 00:45:29 am
I'm not sure, frequency is only important if you are going for resonance, and you can't make a tubular array resonate,
If you want to understand how the amps are restricted in a dead short condition you need to learn about Inductance reactance. In the last few days I did quite a bit of reading on this to understand how the chokes work, and it really makes a lot of sense.
Basically, it comes down to the fact that voltage across and current through an inductor can not change in zero time, so when the chokes are pulsed and the water is in a dead short to the ground there is an inductor in between prevents the current from rushing in. Also if you read about dielectric breakdown you'll learn that when the dielectric fails, all the voltage is transformed into a surge of amps, but this can't happen in the wfc because the chokes prevent this surge of amps. It's all quite simple and brilliant when you start to understand how he is using simple electrical principles to accomplish what he needed. I still have much to learn, but it's coming nicely.
When ever he says "tune into the dielectric properties of water" I think this just means using it as a capacitor in a resonant circuit, and of course it is a liquid dielectric, and he is bringing it to dielectric failure, preventing the amp surge, and allowing the dielectric to recover, as you can read about for liquid/gas dielectrics. Also when you increase the voltage significantly, this changes the dielectric properties of the water, as he talks about in the Switzerland video, he definitely emphasizes the statement that water is a "dielectric liquid".
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 15, 2009, 01:02:14 am
Quote
Also if you read about dielectric breakdown you'll learn that when the dielectric fails, all the voltage is transformed into a surge of amps, but this can't happen in the wfc because the chokes prevent this surge of amps.
thats what im saying. what if for the resonance you are cutting off amplitude right before that surge of amps every time?
im thinking my rotor will hold 48 inches per lap around the core.. im thinking each phase will hold 100 laps total.. i did some math and came to 400 feet on the nose per phase counting the secondary and the bifillars 27 gauge has 51.44 ohms per 1000 feet around one ohm per 20 feet..
im not sure of the wind ratio for the secondary and chokes.. any ideas onthat donald?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 15, 2009, 01:19:20 am
I would make all the secondary/chokes exactly the same size, same amount of turns, same length of wire, identical coils, except chokes are wound bifilar.
thats what im saying. what if for the resonance you are cutting off amplitude right before that surge of amps every time?
no, the cutting off of the pulses is not needed to stop the amp surge, the chokes do this all by themselves, all the time, this is what they do, this is how you restrict amps in a dead short condition, the reason you need to restrict amps is to maintain voltage across the water during dielectric failure, to keep the process going continuously, this is one reason why you have two chokes, the other reason why you have two chokes is so that you can get equal and opposite voltage applied to the plates. I've also been looking into isolated ground, more to learn here, but this is significant too, as others have already said.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 22, 2009, 21:43:28 pm
I have some thoughts on the whole process, that will help tie together what is happening.
To split the water molecule with the electrical polarization process you need a DC voltage force to pull them apart.
Stan says this may be a static DC voltage force, but pulsing increases the efficiency and acts as a dynamic force.
Amp restriction is not fundamentally required in the process, but to have [relatively] high voltage and high amps at the same time would imply that both electrolysis and the electrical polarization process are occurring simultaneously at a fundamental level, although both are acting inefficiently!
In electrolysis, about 2 volts are required, above this the voltage will act to perform the electrical polarization process, but your amp flow will reduce the amount of voltage you can maintain.
Amp flow will consume your applied voltage, so to maintain your applied voltage you need to restrict the amps. It is at this point when the efficiency of the electrical polarization process will skyrocket, and the electrolysis that is happening simultaneously will cease.
The key points i am trying to make are that: 1. DC voltage is required for the Electrical Polarization Process 2. Electrolysis and the Electrical Polarization Process can occur simultaneously, but both poor efficiency 3. Amp flow consumes your voltage force, restricting amps allows voltage force to take over. 4. When the above happens, electrolysis ceases and the Electrical Polarization Process becomes effective
Now lets look at a few things: 1. Conventional Deregulated Delco Remy Alternator, and it's Circuit and Output 2. Compare above to VIC 3. Rotary VIC, compared to both
First, the Delco Circuit (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/Picture8-1.png)
Look at this as a single phase. This is a Secondary, and a Diode, and not grounded. We can think of the Diode as the Blocking Diode from the VIC, really this is a VIC without chokes, and without a ground. The blocking diode keeps it DC just like we need it too.
The output of this is DC voltage, and amps, and since it is not grounded, there is no reference, so the DC voltage should be equal and opposite to the plates. Because there is DC voltage, this will perform the Electrical Polarization Process. Because there are amps, this will do it poorly, because voltage can't be maintained, and it will also perform electrolysis simultaneously, but also poorly.
So we have half of the VIC, but amp restriction would be nice, that will stop our voltage from dropping. Higher voltage would be cool too.
So how about we add some chokes, they will restrict amps, and maintain voltage. We should use two chokes, one on each side of the secondary, and we should keep them the same size too and wind them bifilar, because we really want that equal and opposite DC voltage to pull on our water molecule.
Lets put one choke after the blocking diode. Since our alternator is producing AC and we are half wave rectifying it, it means we are pulling out a 50% duty cycle DC, so our diode will also double our pulsing frequency too.
Lets wrap it up in a three phase system again, so we'll need some isolation diodes to keep our chokes from interfering with each other in the phase waveform.
That should look something like this: (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/Picture7-1.png)
We're still not grounding it, so there is no voltage reference, we should get equal and opposite voltage to each plate. Or we could ground it between the secondary and the bottom choke, and we should still get equal and opposite voltage because our chokes are the same length and wound bifilar.
Now we still have a DC voltage output, but we have restricted our amps, so we have eliminated the electrolysis, and the drain on our voltage. This should perform the electrical polarization process a lot more efficiently.
We can even use finer wire, and get a higher voltage out of it.
If we compare this to what we know as the VIC, we can see that each phase looks exactly like the VIC, except for the addition of the isolation diode, and we know if it was only single phase, the isolation diode is not needed, so they accomplish the same thing.
In fact, the components of the RVIC have the same reference numbers as those in the VIC! that means when he's talking about them in the Tech Brief they have the same function!
Now, our chokes are going to be chokes even if they don't resonate, if they did resonate, we would have a series resonance with the cell, actually we would have a double series resonance with the cell from both sides. Since I don't think the tubular array will resonate, I'll skip my ideas on resonance for now.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 22, 2009, 23:26:03 pm
@Donaldwfc
"Now, our chokes are going to be chokes even if they don't resonate, if they did resonate, we would have a series resonance with the cell, actually we would have a double series resonance with the cell from both sides. Since I don't think the tubular array will resonate, I'll skip my ideas on resonance for now."
My thoughts: Forget the resonance with WFC di-pole, the VIC is only internally in "resonance". The self resonance is created in the choke inductors L1-L2 "Capacitive Reactance"? Check Tesla bifilar spiral coils patent. Chokes induction is minimized or canceled out, thus low amps? Resonance is only needed for more efficient HV potential generation at the WFC di-pole. Important are the L1-L2 chokes, because they must be equal. That's why SM has a variable "TUNED" inductor symbol drawn in a "SYMBOLIC DIAGRAM".
br, Webmug
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 23, 2009, 00:00:02 am
The bifilar chokes are not wound like Tesla's Patent, the choke induction is maximized, I posted this on the other page, but it is extremely important. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/VICCoilOrientation.jpg)
"Forget the resonance with WFC di-pole, the VIC is only internally in "resonance". " You are partly right, it's not a "water resonance", it's the fact that water becomes "part" of the electronic circuit as it forms the dielectric of the capacitor, so when you "tune into the dielectric properties of water" it means you tune into the water capacitor and resonate it as a capacitor with your inductor. But this is for the Resonant WFC, not the tubular array because it's too unstable to resonate.
Side note, does anyone know how you could find the inductance of an alternator? and what this would depend on?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 23, 2009, 13:11:48 pm
The bifilar chokes are not wound like Tesla's Patent, the choke induction is maximized, I posted this on the other page, but it is extremely important. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/VICCoilOrientation.jpg)
"Forget the resonance with WFC di-pole, the VIC is only internally in "resonance". " You are partly right, it's not a "water resonance", it's the fact that water becomes "part" of the electronic circuit as it forms the dielectric of the capacitor, so when you "tune into the dielectric properties of water" it means you tune into the water capacitor and resonate it as a capacitor with your inductor. But this is for the Resonant WFC, not the tubular array because it's too unstable to resonate.
Side note, does anyone know how you could find the inductance of an alternator? and what this would depend on?
I am sure you know the LCR meter trick.....So what do you mean?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 23, 2009, 13:52:20 pm
The bifilar chokes are not wound like Tesla's Patent, the choke induction is maximized, I posted this on the other page, but it is extremely important. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/VICCoilOrientation.jpg)
"Forget the resonance with WFC di-pole, the VIC is only internally in "resonance". " You are partly right, it's not a "water resonance", it's the fact that water becomes "part" of the electronic circuit as it forms the dielectric of the capacitor, so when you "tune into the dielectric properties of water" it means you tune into the water capacitor and resonate it as a capacitor with your inductor. But this is for the Resonant WFC, not the tubular array because it's too unstable to resonate.
Side note, does anyone know how you could find the inductance of an alternator? and what this would depend on?
Ok, then explain why Stan described in Memo WFC 425 Fig 6-1 (580) choke (56/62) as (Tesla No.512,340 Jan 9, 1894!!!) "Dual Resonant coils (56/62) Bifilar spiral wrap coils"?
Yes, the total inductance fields are aiding one another, as explained by the indicator mark.
When operated at resonance, the distributed capacitance of the bifilar coil is able to overcome the counter - electromotive force (e.m.f.) normal to coils, inductive reactance.
Because of the electrical activity, a bifilar coil does not work against itself in the form of a counter - e.m.f., the potential across the coil quickly builds to a high value. The difference between the turns becomes great enough that the energy is practically all potential, at this point, the system becomes an electrostatic oscillator.
Tesla's claim: "1. A coil for electric apparatus the adjacent convolutions of which form parts of the circuit between which there exists a potential difference sufficient to secure in the coil a capacity capable of neutralizing its self-induction, as herein before described. 2. A coil composed of contiguous or adjacent insulated conductors electrically connected in series and having a potential difference of such value as too give to the coil as a whole, a capacity sufficient to neutralize its self-induction, as set forth."
br, Webmug
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 23, 2009, 14:24:59 pm
Steve, I guess you could measure the inductance after you build it, but before you build it... anyway I did some research and read half of a PHD thesis on it from some electrical engineer, and it was pretty complex, so oh well. I may just get an inductance meter when I'm rich...
Webmug, there are several differences between the Tesla bifilar and the chokes, and it is important to note that you don't want to cancel out any inductance, self inductance, or mutual inductance. the whole point of the chokes is to use a magnetic field to restrict the electrons movement.
You'll note that Tesla's bifilar coil is ONE coil, bifilar wound about itself, where as these chokes are TWO coils, bifilar wound about each other.
Read again tesla's claims, the first one he is talking about increasing capacitance, this is also happening in stans coils, but tesla's is one coil and Stan's is two separate coils, and the second claim is for the two parts of the bifilar to be connected in series, while in stans they are not in series, there is a [water] capacitor in between. If you really wanted too you could wind each of stan's chokes bifilar like Tesla describes, and then the two chokes would never even touch each other.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 23, 2009, 15:03:33 pm
Steve, I guess you could measure the inductance after you build it, but before you build it... anyway I did some research and read half of a PHD thesis on it from some electrical engineer, and it was pretty complex, so oh well. I may just get an inductance meter when I'm rich...
Webmug, there are several differences between the Tesla bifilar and the chokes, and it is important to note that you don't want to cancel out any inductance, self inductance, or mutual inductance. the whole point of the chokes is to use a magnetic field to restrict the electrons movement.
You'll note that Tesla's bifilar coil is ONE coil, bifilar wound about itself, where as these chokes are TWO coils, bifilar wound about each other.
Read again tesla's claims, the first one he is talking about increasing capacitance, this is also happening in stans coils, but tesla's is one coil and Stan's is two separate coils, and the second claim is for the two parts of the bifilar to be connected in series, while in stans they are not in series, there is a [water] capacitor in between. If you really wanted too you could wind each of stan's chokes bifilar like Tesla describes, and then the two chokes would never even touch each other.
"and the second claim is for the two parts of the bifilar to be connected in series, while in stans they are not in series, there is a [water] capacitor in between."
Why not Tesla Bifilar then, it creates even more potential charge?
Why did Stan used groves in a bobbin and connect L1-L2 bifilar spirals in series? ...now he created more capacitance (see it as spiral capacitors between the groves) and capacitors between the wires. You want to use the wire potential (capacitor) and overcome the capacitance of the WFC (ER) so HV potential can charge the WFC.
Remember, I could be way off track here, just thoughts? ;)
br, Webmug
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 30, 2009, 02:26:09 am
Both of these pictures show the MOTORCRAFT RVIC!!!
NOT THE DELCO REMY
I know, it looks like a Delco, but, it's not. I just figured it out today.
Come to think of it, now knowing this, I don't know if Stan EVER used a Delco, because I am pretty sure that idea started from someone looking at that picture and thinking they saw a Delco even tho it never was!!!
It was always the Motorcraft RVIC.
First it was used like a normal deregulated alternator, hence that diagram, then it was rewound with the RVIC.
Remember that the famous Demo Cell video was taken around 1990. This was way after the first video of it idling the dune buggy in 1984, and the boilerplate configuration in 1986. You look closely and you can figure it out, it's not actually a Delco, and it makes absolutely zero sense for it ever to be! This was the Motorcraft RVIC all along.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 30, 2009, 02:28:24 am
And I'd like to thank Hydro and Dynodon, with your subtle hints from other things I never would have pieced this together and come to this realization!
THANKS!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 30, 2009, 02:59:42 am
Both of these pictures show the MOTORCRAFT RVIC!!!
NOT THE DELCO REMY
I know, it looks like a Delco, but, it's not. I just figured it out today.
Come to think of it, now knowing this, I don't know if Stan EVER used a Delco, because I am pretty sure that idea started from someone looking at that picture and thinking they saw a Delco even tho it never was!!!
It was always the Motorcraft RVIC.
First it was used like a normal deregulated alternator, hence that diagram, then it was rewound with the RVIC.
Remember that the famous Demo Cell video was taken around 1990. This was way after the first video of it idling the dune buggy in 1984, and the boilerplate configuration in 1986. You look closely and you can figure it out, it's not actually a Delco, and it makes absolutely zero sense for it ever to be! This was the Motorcraft RVIC all along.
It does look that way. I don't think it is paramount that a person needs to use a particular brand of alternator except for replication's sake. You can wire a Delco just the same as a Motorcraft or any brand. I admit that I would like to see if there is any difference between the two but, I really don't think it will make much of a difference if any at all. I do favor the connection scheme and internal design on the Motorcraft though.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 30, 2009, 03:10:20 am
I agree it's a minor detail, but it clears up a whole misunderstanding about Stan's alternator.
You can use a delco remy... if you wire it like the RVIC, this just clears up the whole myth that Stan used a normal delco.
I know I haven't provided an in depth explanation, but those that care to understand will understand, and for them I think this is good to know :)
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2009, 02:12:53 am
i was reading throught this thread and saw that stan used a ford aircraft alternator
if that is true he was mostly using a 400 hz alternator most aviation and military stuff is 400 hz
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2009, 02:44:29 am
That was the understanding at one point, but then we learned more, and we're pretty sure it's just a normal car alternator made by motorcraft, which is identical to what i have except for my brushes.
The frequency of it, I don't know, but I don't see any reason to believe he used an aircraft alternator any more, now that we've discovered the automobile version of that alternator
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2009, 02:51:54 am
both cases are the same the diffrence in a 400hz and 60 hz one is the diode bridge and the rotor
the rotor would be diffrent in the 400 hz version which is interchangeable with ford case
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2009, 02:57:13 am
so its all really determined by the wire arangment on the stator or is there a different rotor involved having a different geometry configuration then a automobile version?? is there a different material used for the core?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2009, 04:07:12 am
when i was experimenting with alternators i tried alot of diffrent thing
i found by changing the shape of the rotor poles from a hump to a hump with a flatback you can change the out put wave from the alternator
apparently when the rotor passes each cavity it energises it when it dosent taper of the cavity shuts off instantly it kind of a way of making a square wave from an alternator with out a pulse generator
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2009, 06:27:17 am
Interesting!
When you say 400 Hz, does that imply at standard rpm?
By running the drive motor faster, or changing pulley ratio we could get a higher frequency out of it, but does a higher frequency work better for gas production in situations excluding resonance?
I'd like to figure out what the inductance and capacitance of an alternator is, and see if you can do anything with that to make a more favorable output.
Great News, I just finished university for the semester, I have 2-3 weeks to work on my Quenching Circuit nozzles, and my RVIC.... and see were that takes me, I want to get a scope, and figure out as much as I can.
:D
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 02:16:14 am
Anybody know how much wire it takes to rewind an alternator?
I figure the weight of wire is the same no-matter what gage you use.
My rough math brings me to about 1300 feet for 93 turns/14 loops/3 phases of 30 gage wire, or about 1/2 pound, but I would like a second opinion before I go to the motor shop.
Eight 1200 volt 30 amp diodes have been ordered.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2009, 04:42:59 am
have 5 pounds of 30 gage, will figure out how many turns i can fit in next, and build a jig, with over a quarter mile of wire, i'm not doing this by hand!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2009, 06:48:51 am
donald, im curious what width you are planing to wind the stator... when i say width im speaking of length of the wire linear with the grove and is in the groove.. im thinking 2 in or 2.5 in a stator core is 1 inch in width.. 2 inch gives half inch over hang each side, while a 2.5 will give .75 in on each side over hang.. im thinking im gonna find a tru 2by 6 board and make a solid wood jig... im only gonna notch it to match up for a single phase... this means i will make a circle board matching the dia of the stator and notch matching groves every 30 degrees.. this gives me 12 grooves total matching the groove count and degrees on the stator.. this will give the capability to wind from the exterior then place it in a interior.. i am curious of your approach for the jig..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2009, 08:09:39 am
Kevin West has good reference material on the rewind jig.
I'll summarize:
You'll need 14 separate but series-connected coils, the # of winds determine the V.
One example is 62 turns of #26 ga mag wire for each coil, x 14 coils =868 turned getting fluxed at the same instant on a 42 pole stator. This will put out 150 volts I think.
To spool these up, gitcha a length of 1 1/4" sch 40 pvc pipe, at least 12" long. It really helps to have a wood or metal lathe, tho you'll probably wanna crank the turns by hand [by a helper].
Leave the end 2" alone on one end, then slice two cuts lengthwise, 180* opposed.
Now you have something you need to beef up to make it rigid again, but when you remove the "beefers" it'll collapse and you can slide the coils off easily. Also, the slots will enable you to put a couple scrawny plastic wire-ties onto the coils to keep 'em from unravelling.
Now for the layout. Along the pipe, slide a flat piece like a shortened popsicle stick through the pipe, both slots. If it sticks out both sides 1/2" that's enuf. Wrap it in place with electrical tape. This is the "segmenter- beefer." MAke 15 spaces this way, and now you can wrap the right # of turns in each space, leaving a tail at the beginning and a little extra between coils and a tail at the end. Wire is cheap, comparatively.
[edit: he does make reference to winding the coils alternately CW and CCW as you go down the pipe, tho I'm not sure why. Mebbe it has something to do with the way they get wire-tied together]
When its all wound up, carefully slice away the e-tape and pull sticks out after doing the wire-tie thing.
Slide the whole mess offa the slit end and start over for a total of three.
I know this is clear as mud, but I cain't find that file just now
Turtle
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2009, 14:11:47 pm
keith, im not sure if kevin is taking the right approach,,,, i understand how he does it.. its not how a alternator is wound though...... what i think is thge right way at the moment you do laps around the core in a repedative figure S so to speak. and you are winding 3 wire on one phase.. kevin only winds one.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2009, 14:25:26 pm
outlaw
I measured the original wire on the stator before I took it off, i measured 2.4 inches, and the stator is 1 inch thick (actually 17/16ths), so you have 0.7 inches of wire sticking out on each side, so I want a diameter of PVC pipe that gives me about 2.4 inches when i put the coils in and press them squarish, because the coils wont go in round, they are more rectangle-like. I just happen to have two PVC pipes, 1 & 11/16ths, and 1 & 13/16ths and I found the ideal diameter in between that, so I will make a slight adjustments when I build the jig so that the wire loops will be the desired size.
have to run, back in a bit
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2009, 16:14:54 pm
I too thought that Kevin was winding his coils wrong.I just bought a ford core and took it apart.The coils are wound just like Kevin does.I was shocked.But my Denso is wound like the S wave method.So they are done both ways depending on the brand you use.My friend has a delco and it's also wound like Kevins. Don
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2009, 22:00:38 pm
oh ok so they do wind them in both manners.. i have only acknowledge the s wind style... i think im gonna build my jig out of a piece of 2x6 board and a piece of 1/2 by 6 (plywood mabe).. them sandwiched together should give around 2.4... i will cut it into a circle to match the diameter of the core from cavity bottom across to cavity bottom.... then i will mark every 30 degrees around the solid wooden wheel like object... i will use a jig say or band saw to cut matching cavitys to match the cores dementions all the way around for a single phase.. i will mount it like a wheel so it can rotate freely..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2009, 22:50:32 pm
I went to the motor repair shop today, we did a job for them in the machine shop, and while i was dropping that off I was talking to one of the guys about my alternator, and he let me borrow this old winding machine:
So now i'll make up a coil form out of PVC pipe with consideration for 14 coils, and this will make life a lot easier, it has a counter, and you press a lever down to move the motor assembly into contact with the drive belt to make the coil form rotate, this should give decent control over winding speed.
I'll post a picture of my coil form when i finish it.
My diodes arrived!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 24, 2009, 02:35:35 am
Yeah, I was only creating the coils to be inserted in the 42 slots of the stator. There is a lot to the spacing, every third one for each string of 14 coils. Then the next string has to deal with every third space as well, and so on.
And this is only for delco remy
Sorry it was clear as mud.
I hope to respool one soon so I can relate the firsthand nature of it
Turtle, heading back to the bottom of the pond where the mud is
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 24, 2009, 04:28:17 am
The ford alternator only has 36 windows in the stator Don
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 24, 2009, 04:56:46 am
36 indeed, hmm, i guess that is 12 loops? I'll have to count carefully before I start making my coil form.
Christmas is here! This will slow down my winding progress for 2 days.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 24, 2009, 15:57:22 pm
I want to talk about some thoughts on this circuit:
This circuit is a pulsed alternator. There is a combination of the mechanical and electrical input frequencies.
There are no chokes (shown).
This is not a 3 phase set up because only one phase is used per tube.
There are two grounds used for each phase, one before the cell and one after the cell.
The center point or neutral of the three phases is not connected to anything, but all phases are connected to each other.
He is using a variable resistor on the negative to "tune" the amp leakage, this can be replaced with a choke, and a choke could be placed on the positive line to match it.
The ground on the positive side is interesting, I am not completely sure what this would do, but it looks like it is the "isolated ground" that would keep the positive pulse from swinging negative. Usually it is shown before the secondary, but all our secondaries are tied together, so he put it after the secondary. Or, this circuit probably pre-dates the VIC, which is why he might have tried his isolated ground here first.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 24, 2009, 16:48:32 pm
Donald,that set up would be alot like Lawtons method when he uses the alternator.He doesn't use the center tap ground of the three phases.He uses two diodes,one as a blocking and the other as an isolator.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 24, 2009, 23:46:17 pm
so when current is pumping away from the diodes you will be removing electrons from the tube cell then when current flops you are pushing them out of the isolation diode to ground... you would think this would limit current in the ac oscillation going on in the primary since the electron that are coming into the circuit are leaving on the same end they came in on during 180 out..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 25, 2009, 01:50:51 am
I'm not familiar with dave lawtons alternator, maybe i will look into it, dave might have had some insights into stans work that others have missed, or maybe dave missed some things himself.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 25, 2009, 02:16:58 am
Here is daves alternator schematic, from the back of the tech brief, I don't know if there is another one, or more information on his alternator, i quickly looked for a video of his alternator running the cell, but did not find it.
The second paragraph, they refer to stan drawing the negative connections like that, and I have never seen stan do such a thing, so why they say this, is beyond me. There is no ground in their circuit for the cell, and stan always has his circuit to the cell grounded in one way or another, and like we see directly above, each tube has two grounds.
It is noted that dave didn't get any better performance out of his alternator than he did with straight pulsing, so i can conclude that dave's alternator was not the magic we are looking for.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 25, 2009, 04:19:20 am
If all Stan's grounds in Figure 5 were connected to each other then it would look similar to Dave's picture above, and based on the labels in Figure 5 and the other information in the patent, it is labeled "20", which is the only label given to his grounds, so they may all be common ground/connection.
Now the question is, are they 'just' all connected to each other? or Are they grounded to an actual ground somewhere? Maybe it doesn't matter?
Dave doesn't show Stan's amp inhibitor resistor, or his tuning resistor, and this is supposed to be a key part of the set up as described in the patent.
We know that the amp inhibitor resistor was replaced by the bifilar chokes, so in either Figure 5 of Dave's circuit, you could put the chokes in the appropriate location.
Of course i'll be winding my chokes inside the alternator... I may try a few other things like this with my standard Delco alternator.
Also, a detailed reading of the patent suggests to me that Stan was only pulsing the alternator for gating, while Dave was pulsing it with a high frequency as well as a gating frequency. Only pulsing it for gating solves the issue of pulsing the rotor at a frequency higher than the normal output frequency due to the rpms.
If you pulse it faster than it's normal output frequency then you are chopping it up, and that would be messy, which is why It never sat well with me to pulse the alternator... however tests will be done... maybe the RVIC has a frequency that it likes more than others and gives better production.
Stan also talks a lot about the resonant cavity phenomenon, where the pulsing matches the wavelength to the spacing of the tubes and so on. So if you can get this effect with the gating, then all the clues add up, however you need extremely uniform spacing on all your tubes! especially if they are in an array.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 25, 2009, 05:10:47 am
Another thought
As Dave's circuit is, with the blue, for the negative connection, you will have a 3 phase negative voltage waveform sent to the negative plate.
As Stan's Circuit is, with the grounds, you will not have a negative voltage applied at all.
Both with a single phase positive voltage to the positive plate.
I think there is a significant difference, which one is best is due for testing.
If you grounded Dave's blue wire, you would eliminate the negative pulsing to the negative plate. But he still doesn't have the amp inhibitor.
As mentioned before, you can not use 3 phase chokes, they will be smoked (unless sufficiently pulsed), you can use single phase chokes (chokes for each phase), either inside or outside the alternator.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 25, 2009, 06:02:05 am
This patent was filed in 1985 - 03 - 25. (and not granted until 1989 - 01 - 17)
Stan definitely had the resonant charging chokes figured out several years before filing this. These were either old designs, or he decided to leave the chokes out of the patent.
However, he does talk about the special amp inhibitor resistor, so that would indicate that this is his older designs, and he filed the patent years after moving on in his development with chokes.
Seeing how his patents took 2-3-4 years to get granted, it's understandable to see how he shuffled certain patents around or delayed some, and filed at different times. Can you imagine waiting 4 years with the patent office dicking you around?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 25, 2009, 14:12:19 pm
Could the function of RCC2 be to negate lenz law in RCC1?
feature=sub
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 26, 2009, 02:28:00 am
interesting alan... RCC= resistive coil capacitors? im gonna think on this video for a bit....
@ everyone
hope all had a merry christmas.. i joined this forum last january and i got to say it has been one interesting year.. i think we all have gained a higher perspective (enlightenment) and have done so through the ideas of searching for truth through the paths of light and clarity. (god's path)
i would like to think dynodon for his efforts and for his giving..
@donald
this thread is awesome... it contains many aspects to the rotary style vic.. thanks for your time and efforts pointing them out.
hope all have a happy new years..
br, outlawstc
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 26, 2009, 04:15:58 am
RCC, resonant charging choke
I started writing up a reply on my laptop earlier, I started a thought-analysis of the chokes and the magnetic fields, i'll get back to it eventually. Interesting video, and I think a lot of it has to do with lens law, which also has to do with mutual inductance and that kind of thing.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 27, 2009, 00:59:40 am
Quote
RCC, resonant charging choke
duh what was i thinking lol...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 27, 2009, 06:32:09 am
I just figured out I am going to use 50 turns per loop, times 3, for the 3 coils, which gives me 5400 turns, and about 2812 feet of 30 gage wire.
I can fit 400 turns in each window, but this will block me from fitting in the other phases, so i'm going to do 300 turns per window, and 300/6 is 50.
I'll make up my coil form tomorrow out of that piece of ABS pipe, it's inside diameter is 1.5 inches, outside diameter is a bit less than 2 inches.
I see that sombody has some fun...... :) Nice hobby we have.... ;)
Steve
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 27, 2009, 12:52:05 pm
hey donald, i suggest throwing some paint on the stator... it will help protect the wire then installing it..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 27, 2009, 18:11:30 pm
I have the blue insulation paper, I am going to put that in the stator.
I am also going to clean up and paint the whole alternator, just so busy with holiday stuff, it's hard to escape and do some work ;)
How are you coming on your alternator outlaw?
Steve! Build a RVIC! :D
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 27, 2009, 23:13:45 pm
about as far as my last pic.. i have been busy this past month as well.. had to paint my car, go to tennessee and work up there for a week.. i got my project circuit boards in and i just need to run to radio shack and pic up a couple things to start on that circuit.. i think i will get started on it tommorrow...
im curious to see a pic of the jig you come up with for winding.. still not sure how i want to approach.. when u say u are gonna do 50 loops, do u mean wind like kevin west or are you gonna do 50 laps?.
just wanna come up with a cofortable approach for getting it right the first time.
where did you buy the insulator paper and how much.. i need some.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 28, 2009, 04:22:29 am
Blue insulation paper came from the motor repair shop, and the 30 gage wire, I just took their whole spool, I'll bring it back after I've used what I needed, and they'll charge me then. I also got the old coil winder machine from them, they had it on a back shelf, never used from when they got it.
Here is my jig, same idea as Kevins, adjusted to fit on this coil winder machine.
I need to put a new power cord on the motor, the old one is all crusty and breaking apart, it runs off 12 volts. I am going to replace this next and then I should be almost ready to wind the coils...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 28, 2009, 17:27:36 pm
I have the blue insulation paper, I am going to put that in the stator.
I am also going to clean up and paint the whole alternator, just so busy with holiday stuff, it's hard to escape and do some work ;)
How are you coming on your alternator outlaw?
Steve! Build a RVIC! :D
Maybe i will... ;) I still have 2 alternators here on stock, who like to be modified 8)
Steve
Ps. Great quality pictures, Donald!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 29, 2009, 03:47:45 am
ok so two of of the three wires are wound together , while the other is wound seperatly for each phase.. im not sure if we discussed this or not, when winding 2 together this is simpley just winding on the coil machine from 2 spools lets say your 50 loops per coil having a 100 for the bifilar's total and 50 for the secondary giving 300 per window... second perspective is which goes in the windows first the 100 loop set bifilars or the secondary? my opinion is the bifilar would be first and the secondary be second. this would put the secondary closer to the stator giving it more interaction compared to the bilf coils.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 29, 2009, 03:56:06 am
yes
I am thinking of putting the bifilars in second so they are closer to the rotor, just like in the VIC coil the chokes are closest to the center of the coil.
Not sure if this really maters either way.
If you are using 27 gage then you will have to figure out your turns, a bit less than 50.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 29, 2009, 05:00:21 am
May be off topic but what the heck. Here's JLNaudin's replication of Steorn magnetic motor: http://jnaudin.free.fr/steorn/indexen.htm . Maybe this is what Stan was talking about regarding wrapping longitudinally a primary.
Andy
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 29, 2009, 05:51:50 am
the way i visualize stans desciption for the longitudinal wind on 6-1 which doesnt pertain to the rotary version.... if you can imagine a standard poker playing card.. lets say the ace of spades... take that structure (playing card is 2 demensional) and wind it in one direction as if it were an inductor... you are technically winding on a 2-d plane... ok we will say we wound it horizontal from the bottom of the card to the top.. now if you were to wrap that card or shall i say bend that card around the 6-1 bobbin then slide secondarys outter tube over it to where the primary winds are parallel with the core... for the primary wind to be parallel with the core it is linear with north and south i can see different type of inductance... imagine that wound playing card once more... the winds are bidirectional and layered just as stated in the memo under 6-1'a winding description.. since evertime the wire folds during winding on a 2-d structure its a bi direction due to current traveling both ways like a winding river.. now think on the inductance... we know how to calculate wind ratios due to the count of winds around a core for primarys and secondarys.. well if you wind a primary in that manner for 6-1 then all them winds only make one wind around the core!!! what does that mean when it come to the ratio between it and the bifs and sec windings... what are the step up capabilities if the secondarys is wound 5000 times and the primarys makes only one wind around the core??? can we direct this to another thread for disscusion?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 29, 2009, 06:15:27 am
There is lots of stuff to discuss about the RVIC here if you wish to jump into that ;)
Ok, coil winder is ready to go! I did a test coil of 50 winds. I will start winding my coils tomorrow, and then get them in the stator.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2009, 07:52:42 am
good work don, im right behind ya... today i managed to get my jig around 90 percent done, just need to notch out a slot for the zip ties.. i will try to post a pic of my version tomorrow... i just need to do a few more things and i will be winding.... while back ago i found a decent deal on small zip ties on ebay.. i got like 1,000 for around 3 or 4 bucks, ... i think my dia is around 2 1/4 i havent decided the wind count yet for my 27 awg ... i havent really looked into diodes either and im up for suggestions..... i plan on replicating his board and prefer the same style diode thats on the board. im also in the process of making a insulated tube cell.. donald for this rotary style what style are we looking at for the resonant cavity??? do we need to meet any capacitance values? any certain arrays?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2009, 18:15:33 pm
When you make your jig, aim for a 1/4 inch gap on both sides, not just a single cut, because you need the room for your zap ties.
2 and 1/4 might be too big? mine is just less than 2 inch diameter, but as long as you play around with some test coils and figure out how much room you have.
To figure out the turns, I made some 100 turn coils, I could fit 2..3... 4 of them in, 400 turns per window, but then I didn't have room for the overlapping phases, so I figure 300 turns per window, and everything will fit.
Make sure you test these coils in the stator and in the alternator... make sure you have room in the case without hitting the diode board or anything else.
I might replicate the PCB after I get it running, first I will build an aluminum heat sink and mount the diodes on that... wire everything directly.
I am going to test this on my (only) Demonstration Cell... and I was thinking it may work better on a larger tubular array, like Stan's.
I have been working on a design for a 3" delrin resonant cell in the back of my mind. I'll start to think more about that after I get this project done... I also have thoughts on the variable plate spacing cell which I think would be neat and useful to build too...
After the RVIC is wound I suppose you could find the Inductance, and calculate the frequency output at whatever rpm you are using, and if you had a variable plate cell in the range, *maybe* you could resonate, but I dono, it could be tricky.
I am trying to make sure all my coils are wound exactly the same, so if there is a chance of resonance then I will be prepared for it.
What are your designs for an insulated cell? I'd like to see
My diodes are RHRG30120 1200 volt, 30 amp.... These are way over rated, $2.20 each, I bet you would do fine with less amps and less volts, but I wanted to make sure whatever comes out of this alternator I can handle.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2009, 23:09:07 pm
i should have some pics tomorrow of my new coil winder.. turned out pretty sweet.. heres a pic of what im shooting for for a sinle 3 or 4 inch tube.. trying to keep it simple... might need to o rings to seat the caps and some sort of vice like mount for it to hold it closed when in operation... also the bottom inlets may need some sort of connection to feed water as dynodon said.. as for the hole size and how many it up for debate.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2009, 19:54:34 pm
3 secondaries done, used a better tying method so they come off much more organized
Now I have to get some wire on a second spool so I can wire the bifilar chokes.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2009, 20:02:22 pm
;D happy new year !!! have a lot of fun all of you this is the year
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 01, 2010, 02:21:52 am
Here is a double wound coil for the bifilar chokes
Next up is cleaning up the alternator and stator, then filling the stator.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 01, 2010, 02:40:28 am
Great Work! I'm still not fully understanding how you are winding the chokes. I'm slow and as you know, I have a totally different idea of how I was doing it. The chokes are wound with each phase? Or separately and inserted after the phases are? Sorry for my confusion.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 01, 2010, 11:03:54 am
that is correct bubz 3 wires in series in each phase all have the same pole orientation allowing each wire to aid the other in moving the electrons... all 2 of the 3 are wound bifilar while the 3 being the secondary are wound seperate then all are placed in the core .
i noticed three thing that must be observed... 1 is the rotary board that we have a clear pic of does not match the one in the pic below. it may be the same config but it looks somewhat diff up by the diodes on the rotary vic board below..2nd is if you zoom in and look real closely you will see that there is a noticable bigger gauge wire, the wire seem to look single strand and i really havent came to conclusion on how he wound it on there yet.. some spots it looks liek it may twist around the smaller gauge.. some it looks like it shoots to the other side through the core window... anyways im woundering if stan used heavier gauge for his secondary... heavy gauge which will have less amplitude when it comes to gaining by turns of a coil, but but has the advantage of displacing more electrons then the smaller wire with less amps required... imagine they have always had us focus amps in such a general form... amps can be looked at as how many electrons pass a perpendicular line to current in a wire... how many pass that line in as given second... there are bigger views then just seeing that... what is the speed of the current... amps sounds like speed of current but is not... amps is just a count of how many electrons are passing through the meter from a observable point.. amps is a variable of the equation of figuring out just tha.. the speed of moving charge in a wire... not the count but the speed... your variables are amps and wire dia..
example 10awg measuring 2 amps current has a equal speed of traveling charge in the wire as 20 awg measuring 1 amp current
third, now on the pic below zoom in and look up by the diodes on the right side... notice the spot on the stator where its black.. to me it seems stan didnt wind all the way around the core.. it looks like he left it open more like a C... .. .. to leave a gap seems like it would enhance capacitating the charge
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 01, 2010, 18:27:06 pm
That circuit board is the original, made back in 1980 or 81, and the other circuit board we have pictures of were made in 1996 I believe. There is a slight difference, but I think they are the same form and function. Dudley says he has the new boards from 1996.
Bubz,
I wound 12 loops with 50 turns each loop, this makes up a secondary, I made 3 of these.
Then, I would 12 loops, with 50 turns each loop, with TWO wires feeding in at the same time, this makes up the bifilar chokes.
I am going to pair 1 secondary coil with 1 double wound coil, this will make up a single phase (secondary + bifilar chokes)
Put them in the stator right next to eachother as if it was a single bunch of wires.
Do the above 3 times, so you have 3 phases in your stator.
You'll have 18 wire-ends, (well labeled of course...), and then connect them up in series and with your diodes, and then pull the positive and negative out of the alternator.
I'll show more pictures as I make more progress, and help you with any questions you have so you can understand how it works.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 01, 2010, 19:43:08 pm
donald, i see your perspective clearly and it has been mine as well for the past couple weeks... but the more i investigate the 96 pic i have came to a new hypothisis...i have been trying to understand how he wound it from the pic and what im seeing is quiet interesting... to me from what i can clarify out of thought and observation stan only has one phase of chokes on the alternator... they are installed how you are going to do it and the secondary goes through every window he only has 11 loops leaving the ends of each wind from interation with the begining i think... what i see is if you look at the rotor poles dimensions they are the width of window to window for a single phase wind.. im thinking that single phase of chokes will take on a 50 percent duty as them poles spin by... but the most interesting thought is stan incorperate what i think is the secondary and is a thicker wire into all windows... so i think the secondary is constantly displacing (DC) while allow the chokes take on the duty cycle oscillation... the secondary being in all windows will not allow for the fall of the chokes during continual displacement (frequency of chokes).. this is what im seeing from the unclear photo..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 01, 2010, 21:13:35 pm
Well everyone, I got a chance to look inside the alternator.Turns out someone had got to it.The alternator there is nothing more than a stock rebuilt one.Stan's wife had let someone take it once,and he must have swapped out the real one and kept it.So we're not going to see the original,it's history.We'll try to track it down.So we weren't able to make a new video of it working. We'll make one of the Plate cell soon. Don
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 02, 2010, 01:08:48 am
note... i think i might alter this a bit still i see some contradictions and still need to think on it more but i have a feeling this style is gonna be suitable for maintaining displacment within the chokes while provding a 50 percent duty cycle... i will have my revised done shortly...
ok guys this is a pretty interesting perspective i have come up with about how i think stan wound his alternator.. i have attached 2 drawings.. they are both the same idea one is just simplified to see how they are connected beginning and end. BLUE represents the secondary... RED= pos choke. and BLACK= neg choke.....
they can all be wound in this manner to aid each other..... i think the chokes are heavier gauge and they go through 33 consecutive windows in a weaving action as shown in the drawing.. think the secondary is in every 3 windows being 30 degree spaced having 11 total, not 12.. 11 X 30= 330 degrees...
so within 330 degrees you have 11 windows used for secondary and 33 windows for the weaving chokes.. what does this do???? i think it allows chokes to have 3 times more interaction then the secondary in a distributed interaction sense to the rotors field... i think this will cause effect of creating a more pure dc signal in the chokes... while the secondarys will be generating a 50 percent duty waveform due to its 30 degree window spacing and how the dimensions of the rotor are proprtionaly spaced to create a 50 percent duty sine..
happy new years
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 02, 2010, 02:31:27 am
Donald and Outlaw, thank you much for your time and explanation! I understand perfectly now. At least I think so... lol!
Dynodon, was this stock alternator correctly attached and functional. I'm curious as to how you came to the conclusion the alternator was swapped out. Is it possible it was really just a stock alternator all this time? Just like the documents show? Now I begin to wonder also, what other equipment has been tampered with. I hope the plate cell is all there and working. That would be the better one to study if we had a choice between the two, I would imagine. What other things are there that can be tested? How much documentation is there to read? Is the owner going to release any of the printed information? If you have the time, I would love to know about the status of this equipment and the sale of it, etc. If for some chance the deals fell through and the sale is re-opened, I would like to know.
Happy New Year! 1-1-10, next year will be 1-1-11!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 02, 2010, 03:39:06 am
now for some reason i feel it may be like this pic... have a single looped heaveier gauged wire in all 33 windows being considered a secondary... and the chokes are the ones in every 3rd window haveing 11 total and being 330 degrees of interaction.. this gives a more constant duty on the secondary which i think is a way you can create a more pure source signal.. while the 11 loops of chokes are reacting to the poles with a 50 percent duty sine wave since they are in every 3rd window slot being 30 degrees out from each other... like i said earlier the poles are oppositly top dead center every 3rd slot. so when one slot has the noth rotor pole over it dead center then the other side of that same loop has the negative top dead center. when the rotor spins it creates the oscillation with a 50 percent time share of poles.. negative can push an electron and positive can pull... since a rotor spins one direction it can create the effect of unipolar currents..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 02, 2010, 07:29:44 am
Not sure I understand you there outlaw, I'll take another look in the morning.
Using different gage wire for the secondary might have some beneficial effect, but if it works with different size wire, it would work with the same size wire, I don't think this is a determining factor, it's all about the circuit, the this is the same VIC, only it's 3 phase, you have everything this VIC has, just working in a slightly different way than the solid-state VIC Coil. Working on understanding the alternator and the VIC at the same time really helped me figure out some things, because they are accomplishing the same task.
I think Stan used thicker wire in his alternator than I am using, but he used much much thinner wire in the solid state VIC... so as long as it is wound right then the wire size shouldn't matter too much, only that more turns gives higher voltage. I'm happy with the 30 gage, it's thin but still strong enough that I never had any concerns about breaking it while winding the coils.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 02, 2010, 13:46:48 pm
what i see donald is a alternator can be looked at like a circuit.. dependending on the config of the wind... im saying secondary is in 33 windows out of 36 and the chokes are in 11 out of 36...the spacing of the 11 is just like a reg single phase wind on the alternator... since sec is in 33 out of 36 it has way more interaction with the rotor during operation and being in 33 windows if you were to read the wave coming from the sec i think it would be a purer form of dc.. menaing the seconday being in 33 windows doesnt have a 50 percent sine but more of a constant displacement (DC) while the chokes config on the core takes on the duty cycle aka freq.. this means when the chokes are generating the freq and the secondary plays the role of a power soucre providing a constant source... i think if u can see this u see that stan did it to eliminate the need of a scr to contol the duty cycle to the chokes.. he relied on gemometrical confirguration of poles to do his on and off switching... the top pics are wrong i beleave i had it backwards on labeling secondary and chokes..
secondary in the pic below being a dual bifilar with a center tap heavier gauge loop wound in the same direction as the chokes, being in 33 consecutive windows out of 36 (10 degree spaced totaling 330 degrees) interacts with the rotor in 33 locations on the core... will not generate a sine wave but a more contstant repetition unidirectional current... now really focus on this.... what happens when u wind dual bifilar secondarys like i shown the choke being wound on my first drawing.... meaning a weaving pattern in the stator??? in each window u will have aiding fields moving all electrons in one direction in the windows, but one wire will be sending electrons in the opposite direction around the core.. and if these dual secondaries were connected at each end they would be creating circulating current within the secondaries constantly..... then the chokes being conected to this circulating source of electrons have the opportunity to give in take during its rotor pulses of the 50 percent duty.. while the circulation of these electrons are constantly aiding in maintainling displacment due to the fact of it being constant displacemnet brought on by secondaries constant current in each window (while rotor is on) i...
ex 100 rpm of a 6 pole rotor is 600 hz stan said he was around 10khz, 10khz is 1666rpm (constant speed electric motor)
i dont know how u would go about locking on to 3 phases and pulsing the rotor.. maybe locking one is all thats needed..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 02, 2010, 15:10:14 pm
A quick comment on the pic above of the "Voltage Sync Pulse". For those of you not so knowledgeable of electronic circuits, that circuit is known as a "Voltage Divider". You can find more info under that wording. A lot of what Stan did with his inventions, is use existing technology and change the names. I'm sure it was for patent reasons. Such as the "Electron Extraction Circuit" is nothing more than a gas(air) ionizer. Only his works in reverse compared to the household versions that produce Ozone. Another, "Electron Inhibitor" is nothing more than a resistor.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 02, 2010, 15:18:26 pm
im finding some contradictions in my new views but i do beleive i am heading the right direction in understanding the rotary vic and its ability to displace charge in repetition (freq) while main
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 02, 2010, 20:40:40 pm
outlaw, I really don't see what you are getting at, I'm using all 36 windows, i'm using loops, not weaving, I think weaving would be ridiculously hard.
The circuit is always 50% duty cycle because the rotor gives AC but the stator only takes the positive voltage due to the diodes half wave rectifying it.
Bubz, I agree, Stan was re-naming stuff to suit his purpose and naming it with descriptive terms that better explain what he is trying to accomplish, rather than get trapped in the conventional understanding of electronics terms
it may seam weird to call the alternator set up a "rotary pulse voltage frequency generator assembly", but that is actually a perfect name, way better than "modified alternator" which doesn't tell you anything at all.
"rotary pulse voltage frequency generator assembly" rotary - rotating electrical generator voltage - voltage is important, not amps frequency - generates a frequency waveform generator - the assembly does all this stuff assembly - it's a combination of elements that gives the desired output
same thing with amp inhibitor.... it describes how you are actually trying to inhibit amps, resistors are used for this, sure, but it's just a more direct way of describing the function of the device.
voltage sync pulse.... just describing how the positive and negative pulses are in sync in reference to voltage and voltage amplitude
you could make up your own "Stanley Meyer Dictionary" that translates his terms to conventional terms, tho I think much more information is given in his terms to the application of the device or component or system.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 02, 2010, 20:57:57 pm
here is pic of the alternator that i highlighted the unknown wind for a better view of whats going on... i also outline how it appea it could be 2 wire and it could be just one.... but this wind style is interacting will every window,. donald look real close at the right side of the alternator and you will see 3 slots and not being used for winds....
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2010, 02:18:27 am
outlawstc,I don't think your seeing the windings right.Look at the picture below.I added colored lines to show the three winding better.I also circled the winding closest to the rotor.You can see a pattern when viewed with the colored lines. Don
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2010, 02:43:41 am
i may not be seeing the phase windings correct but notice at the top of my last pic the lines that are yellow and blue and look real close at an un altered pic.... u will see that pattern of heavier gauge in the winds.....
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2010, 04:15:30 am
the yellow and blue lines lines you drew over the windings are just the string Stan used to tie the wires together.It's a black string,and I've seen alot of motors tied up the same way.It also looks to me like the wire gauge is larger than 30.My guess would be @ 18 gauge.I blew up the photo to twice the size of a real stator and measured the wire diameter. Don
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2010, 17:51:30 pm
18 gage... that would have been a lot less winding!
oh well, let's see how 30 gage does...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2010, 21:02:10 pm
yea i back tracked and read the first photo that states 3 coils per phase and i would say that it has to be a string.. contradicts in many ways.. check out the pic i drew..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2010, 23:38:05 pm
Bubz,sorry for the delay in responding.The alternator is not the original.When a person who worked with Stan saw it,he said right off that it wasn't right.He was one of Orions experts that came out in June. The plate cell is all there and it does work.We will be doing a video for you-tube hopefully this week weather permitting.Snowing pretty hard now. There is alot of files there,and he won't be posting anything online.Everything that gets released will be through me,on here and you-tube. As far as the sale,no luck yet,that's why we'll be doing a video,to get it out there for more to see.We would like to try and even find a invester to front some money for a research team he would put together.We know of a few people that were around Stan that could help. Don
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2010, 02:39:53 am
Didnt Orion already get 700,000$ ?
I know its not their 3 million they asked but still lol ...
I have a "strange" feeling about that buggy .
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2010, 06:56:09 am
Next is to finish cleaning up the alternator, build the Diode board, put it together, and hook it up to the cell.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 05, 2010, 00:56:45 am
looks good donald.. i finished my winder today just need to start winding i am using 1' 6/8 O.D. pipe ... think im gonna go with 30 winds each using 27 gauge..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 05, 2010, 07:07:53 am
1 and 6/8 OD will be on the small side, I suggest 2 inch OD or maybe even 2 and 1/8 inch OD.
Mine was ~ 2 inch OD and I found my loops could have been a bit larger. I would not want them any smaller at all.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 05, 2010, 15:40:52 pm
i was mistaken .. my pipe is 1 and 7/8... im gonna have to go with it because i have already made all my secondarys last night and if i were to change then wont have enough wire to complete... just gott make some bilfillars now... next one i will go with 2' 1/4 or somthin and around 18 gauge as dynodon mentioned
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 08, 2010, 05:36:45 am
ok i have been thinking and sketching the bifilar and secondarys cofiguration and visualizing the sequence of events that occur during pulsing.. i see the positive pulse that pushes the electrons from the positive choke through the diode into secondary is going to the secondaries positive side which is transmitting a positive potential simultaneously.. i think this is considered a voltage doubler? now when the coil trys to go 180 out in oscillation it throws secondary negative and the choke goes positive at the diode that is between them in series.
all in all what will happen to a diode that the cathode is being oscillated 180 out from the anode? what kind of electron gating will occur during its rotor freq being applied at 100 percent duty and also what happens with the diode during off time once choke is charged
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 08, 2010, 06:02:24 am
I don't know. Since the Stator is basically picking up half wave rectified AC it is 50% duty cycle all the time, but then the blocking diode and the frequency doubling stuff happens, which I haven't completely wrapped my head around. I tried playing with it in the circuit simulator and saw frequency doubling with the diode and collapsing magnetic field, but it wasn't as clear as I thought it would be because of the scale that the scope gives.
I talked to the guys at the motor shop when I returned the wire, and I'm going to get set up with someone who has electrical experience and a scope, and i'll see what this diode and bifilar choke circuit is doing in the alternator.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 08, 2010, 07:12:23 am
You should see google as a library at the tip of your fingers . The teammate that is never bored @ explaining to you .
Dont know how something works , google it . Dont know how something connects , google it , dont know what a word means on a datasheet , google it . Dont know what a button of the oscilloscope means , google it . Even youtube it .
From a to b to z , self-education by google . Especially in the domain of electronics and electricity , there is an answer for any question ., internet was made by electronics .
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 08, 2010, 07:28:43 am
Hi Donald,
Sorry I don't see how you can get 50% duty cycle from a 3 phase alternator unless you are wiring it as one phase then current goes one way then the opposite 50%. Each phase of a 3 phase motor or alternator is 120 degrees of 360 degrees. That would be 33 1/3% duty cycle. 180 degrees or half of 360 degrees would be 50% duty cycle. But it's your project. Maybe there was a reason why there were 9 tubes?
Regards, Andy
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 08, 2010, 07:40:39 am
thats why i say television is a form of anti christ. television is a one way source of information... a one way source brodcasted at the people is considered in a sense a dictator of u and me... .. for the reasons of it being a one way source leaving no oppourtunity for debate whether or not its accurate (true) i consider it to be a false dictator aka corruption... it is said that god would return and he will come bearing gifts for those who are worthy.. god returns in another form of the same idea of world wide information nework (media, news and so on) god returns as the internet... a 2 way source of information... it opens up the oppourtunity for debate.. and claifying of actions such as lies and corruption.. it levels the playing field in alot of ways helping prevent fraud bring balance back to reality
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 08, 2010, 08:38:03 am
now think about this.... when the alternator is swinging negative towards the diode that is connected to the cell the diode switches off current not allowing the negative to show in the fuel cell... it allows the positive charge that was forced on the tube to be isolated from the negative pulse from positive choke... now at the same exact time the negative choke is being hit with a positive cycle since it is at the other south end of the phase wind... so does this mean that the cell is maintaining its postive plate charge while only the negative plate swings from negative to neutral? and every time the negative is in a transition from a high negative back to neutral during off time its considered a postive pulse... since the direction of change in potential is in the direction of postive? i think these are answer that have we have been trying to understand..
lets say one pulse generates 100 volts into the positive plate and when the voltage swings 180 out that voltage is locked in and the diode prevents electrons from intruding the positive exciter.. while at the same exact time when the voltage swings 180 out the potential in the negative exiter is being effect by the 180 emf since it is wound on the stator that is recieving a cycling frequency of alternating current and each wire is being affected on a mutual level when it comes to freq.. except the positive has gates allowing one directional flow.. so all in all i think the choke will build a matching potential pos and negative across the cell.. but that 180 emf that keeps hitting the negative choke actually helps maintain restriction in current since if current would want to go in any direction it would be across the gap but 50 percent of each phases pulse is restricting bringing swinging it back toward 0v by the voltage in the negative exciter going from a high negative to around 0.. i think this can also promote the elongating of the electron.
what will happen in this circuits off time... what happens when u get a highly polarized set of chokes that have a diode separating the charge on one side and u have water on the other will the diode remain closed to currennt allowing the water to perform its own resonance and have voltage disipate across the gap in a resistive manner? due to the resistance of the circuit and the resistance of water
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 08, 2010, 18:54:25 pm
handyandy, the RVIC is basically 3 VIC's in one, each phase can be thought of as a VIC, when I said it has a 50% duty cycle from the rectified AC I was saying this in the context of a single phase. Each phase then connects together into a single wire after the isolation diodes, but the secondary, chokes, and blocking diodes of each phase all act individually before the phases merge.
Each phase is individually half wave rectified by the blocking diode, therefore 50% duty cycle DC,
Then, the isolation diode combines the three phases into one wire, and one wave form, without allowing them to interact with each other backwards through the same wires on the stator.
The only interaction from the three phases on the stator is mutual inductance. You can read on the first page of this topic what I wrote about the mutual inductance of the three phases, I'll spend more time on this later, when I have a scope hooked up, which will provide a much more valuable insight to the function of the RVIC.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 08, 2010, 19:36:33 pm
Quote
Each phase is individually half wave rectified by the blocking diode, therefore 50% duty cycle DC,
this is true, but also each vic phase is interating with the rotor ac field fully not just the secondarys.... you cant see it as the secondary being the only ones affected by the rotor field... all three wires will be effected by the ac sine. rectified or not since they are all incorperated in the same geometircal config being subjected to a ac oscilating field (rotor)
this is what i mean when i said when the pulse is 180 in sending current out of the positive choke.. the positive choke is being subjected to the rotor pulse and u get the force of electrons toward the diode being generated in the choke , while you have the secondary trying to pull electrons from the diode.. so the work to transfer electrons through the diode is being performed from both sides... while when the rotor field goes 180 out it will put a force of electrons on the diode from secondary which will be blocked from producing current into positive choke and the positive choke will be pulling electrons away from the diode..... the diode between the cell and the choke prevents this negative upswing from the 180 out in voltage and u get the unipolar potential pulse aka 50 percent duty in the positive excitor. but the positive choke doesnt maintain a unipolar direction of current... the more electrons that are removed from the positive choke.. the less force you have of electron pushing on the diode between the choke and water... the more electrons that are removed the more they want to stay because of being out numbered by positive potential. so what you get is oscillating low count of electrons in the positive choke being ruber banded back and forth from rotor field. that are being plucked out continualy in a oscillating manner..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 08, 2010, 22:14:16 pm
Hi Donald,
I'll back over to the beginnings the posts in this topic. It's a looong thead and I've been trying to follow it. I'll reserve comment until then. I will be curious also what you see as output on a scope. I'm glad also you spotted one of Stan's patents where he pulses the rotor which is exactly Dave Lawton's alternator setup more or less his interpretation. But oh well, Stan didn't really leave us that much to go on. It may have been Stan just covering his bases hard to tell but look at the box certainly the rotary voltage intensifier in his box did more than just modify or handle the secondary output from the alternator. I'm pretty sure he at least investigated pulsing the rotor. It's what I would do to fully investigate the effect. Simple enough with a 555 or go with a DL circuit although I believe it's the wrong path. It's not what Stan was doing I believe.
Regards, Andy
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 09, 2010, 21:27:24 pm
here are some pics of my hand powered coil winder..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 09, 2010, 21:44:10 pm
and here is the product from a hand powered coil winder
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 09, 2010, 23:18:19 pm
Looks good outlaw, that is a lot of work to do by hand!
how many turns per loop?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 09, 2010, 23:28:42 pm
27 gauge 30 turns each.. so the bifiilars have 60 per loop.. its not to bad i just need to get a counter on it so i dont have to count and i will be happy..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 10, 2010, 06:14:29 am
Well I think there is something to the dynamic and static thing , dc offset is need yet a battery in the mix is just too inefficient from the looks of it .
Have to keep that dc pull somehow , I notice many caps with the Stephen setup , this is where he gets his dc from .
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 10, 2010, 18:57:33 pm
bifilar wound wire or any wire that is wound closely creates what is known as corona when current is flowing thru it corona is a form of static it will arc across the top of the wire just like the frankenstien movies
their is special wire coating for this application to prevent the corona from burning up winding it is used in frequency driven motors
this is why kevin west burns up so many stators
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 10, 2010, 19:36:07 pm
Thanks for sharing. What coating is that? I've been using teflon coated wire silver coated copper like Bob Boyce recommends. I use the wire to wrap ferrite toroid coils bifilar. I do have a curiousity towards electric motors and generators/alternators though. With pulsing dc pwm the coils get hot but with a 60 hz inverter the coils stay cool. I would like to explore higher frequencies though.
Regards, Andy
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 10, 2010, 19:51:51 pm
As far as I know Kevin has not tried a bifiar wind in his stator.
The coating on my wire should stand for 2000 volts, so hopefully it will work. My diodes are rated for 1200 volts.
Once I test it I am going to get it varnished and baked.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 10, 2010, 21:33:55 pm
bifilar wound wire or any wire that is wound closely creates what is known as corona when current is flowing thru it corona is a form of static it will arc across the top of the wire just like the frankenstien movies
their is special wire coating for this application to prevent the corona from burning up winding it is used in frequency driven motors
this is why kevin west burns up so many stators
Yes,
And thats why Tesla made aircoils with a spacing between his turns.
Steve
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 12, 2010, 03:18:11 am
Should have this done in a few hours more work... I'm back at school now, so my time is more limited.
1. Bring positive and negative connections to outside through insulated posts. 2. Assemble alternator 3. Mount on Motor Assembly and connect to cell
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 18, 2010, 11:45:24 am
Thanks for the update, Donaldwfc! Nice
br, webmug
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 18, 2010, 15:19:14 pm
Nice job with the backing plate.
Did you use anything on back of the diodes for thermal dissapation or are you thinking this will run cool?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 18, 2010, 19:48:36 pm
Thanks
Those are 30 amp (1200 volt) diodes, and I might be pulling an amp or so out. I don't think they will get too hot. This wont be in long term continuous use anyway. The board is made of bakelite. As you see the diodes from the top down, are Phase 3, 2, 1. The blocking diodes are shown, the Isolation diodes are on the other side, held on by the same nut and bolt..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 22, 2010, 23:00:25 pm
Hey, Donaldwfc you said in my thread that we don't know what's inside the RVIC box. Well check again?
br, webmug
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 22, 2010, 23:56:41 pm
Could be pulsing/gating circuits? PLL? we also don't know the configuration of that cell. There is a row of LEDs or switches on the control box, maybe there are isolated tube sets individually controlled....
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 23, 2010, 00:15:20 am
That green line in your picture is wrong. The thing it points too is just a plug for 60 Hz AC power from the wall.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 23, 2010, 00:37:55 am
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 25, 2010, 01:31:33 am
very nice outlawstc how did you did that?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 25, 2010, 02:17:13 am
i have a buddy that has a very nice cnc lathe and mill in his garage at home.. gave him a simple schematic and a brief desciption and this is what i got.. havent got to see it yet he just sent me a email of it today. i need to go pic it up... i still need to get a lil more 27 gauge wire to finish one more bifilar and some insulating paper for the core..
donald what are u planing to send into your alternators primary? do u have a circuit your thinking of using?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 25, 2010, 02:18:13 am
cool, what are the dimensions?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 25, 2010, 10:50:44 am
Very good design! Thumbs up for, outlawstc! (I want one too :o) Should be nice if you can share the specs...soon. But I can't see a hole in the left cap (gas/water) only in right cap?
Soon, you can match the VIC transformer on this cell specs.
br, webmug
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 25, 2010, 16:16:22 pm
webmug,
i had a buddy make it for me and i still need to pick it up... the right one u said looks to have a hole in it i think is an illusion or at least hope so... the left as u see has no holes for output yet.. im planing on having him drill like 3 or 4 little holes that match the tube gap. on both caps which i cannot see done in this pic yet.. as for demension i dont have any at the moment and i cant remember my tubes... i bought them like a year ago and if im correct i matched them to stans patent... i will see if i can find the reciept for the stanless so i can share the tube demensions.. my buddy built this freestyle meaning no demension for the delrin just a broad sketch and idea..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 25, 2010, 16:39:56 pm
i had a buddy make it for me and i still need to pick it up... the right one u said looks to have a hole in it i think is an illusion or at least hope so... the left as u see has no holes for output yet.. im planing on having him drill like 3 or 4 little holes that match the tube gap. on both caps which i cannot see done in this pic yet.. as for demension i dont have any at the moment and i cant remember my tubes... i bought them like a year ago and if im correct i matched them to stans patent... i will see if i can find the reciept for the stanless so i can share the tube demensions.. my buddy built this freestyle meaning no demension for the delrin just a broad sketch and idea..
@Donaldwfc, Sorry that I posted in your RVIC thread about resonance cell.
@outlawstc, Drilling small holes below could be a solution if you don't want to cut/mill the stainless rod.
Capacitance calculation (indication) of one res.cell here... http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1305.msg14449.html#msg14449 (http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1305.msg14449.html#msg14449)
br, webmug
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 25, 2010, 17:06:04 pm
webmug,
yea im planning on him putting 4-5 holes in the top and bottom cap.. the hole will match the dia of the gap..
im curious to see how this thing works hooked to the rotary vic. i also have a set up like the electrical polarization unit... i dont have that big of a powerstat.. mine is 125v 2.25 amp.. i made a delrin bobbin with 7 cavities at about 1/16 inch for one of them e52 style e core ferrites..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 25, 2010, 22:56:51 pm
Outlaw, I am going to send in 0-12 volts 120 Hz pulsed DC (rectified wall current), from the variac, which is how my current setup works with the normal alternator
Then I may try a smoothing cap on that for straight DC, then I might try the Jolt circuit for gating and pulsing. I'll need a scope and some help with the electronics though.
If the RVIC starts splitting distilled water then it's doing the impossible, so i'll probably build a bigger cell with more tubes to get more out of it.
By dimensions I meant how long is the tube set? 3" 6" ? I can't really tell.
I am guessing the RVIC can probably power a huge tubular cell.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 25, 2010, 23:45:24 pm
It will split distilled water .
It wont be doing anything impossible .
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 26, 2010, 01:17:57 am
I know many people have split distilled water, but according to conventional science and electrolysis, isn't it supposed to be impossible?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 26, 2010, 02:37:05 am
yea.. i remember in 10th grade chemistry a experiment the teacher performed with water.. she was attepting to light a light bulb through 2 leads in distilled water.. the bulb would not light so it was obvious that the distilled water would not allow current. then she added salt to the mix and we had light... dankie is just being a smart a$$ lol as well as showing his faith in voltrolysis..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 05, 2010, 01:47:30 am
I have the cell cleaned up, and the front of the alternator mounted, I need to finish up some electrical connections and get it all together. Finding the time I need to get this done is hard with school, and a bunch of other stuff on the go, but it's getting exciting.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 05, 2010, 02:14:51 am
looks good don.. im excited for you !!! cant wait to hear the results!! i should be getting the rest of my wire and other parts from the electronics store tomorrow after work.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 05, 2010, 02:29:45 am
I measured the resistance of my rotor, 2.9 Ohms.
Stan says in the first dune buggy idle video "5 volts and 2 amps, 10 watts" ... that means the resistance of his rotor was at most 2.5 Ohms.
If I put 5 volts across my rotor I will get 1.72 Amps.
To anyone who has an alternator... can you measure your rotor's resistance please? I would like to see if this matters at all, considering the possibility of rewinding the rotor with a lower resistance.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 05, 2010, 04:31:58 am
those look like some thick tubes!!! What guage are they? FYI I havent given up on anything here i have just been stuck paying attention to life for a while... You know stuff like putting food on the table etc. Im accually working on some possible grant money to fund my project as well. Soon as i do anything ill update.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 05, 2010, 04:39:33 am
Good to hear you are still [interested in] working on the WFC technology! I still didn't get my quenching circuit nozzles made, although without an alternator hooked up I can't make any gas right now anyway :P
I was just about to grab a caliper and measure the tube thickness, then I looked at my cell an noticed it was full of water. I will find out how thick they are next time I empty it. I think the outside tube is 1/16th inch and the inside tube is less than that... It has a 1/16th inch gap.
You can see the SS tabs that hold the outer tubes in position... they are only 0.030 inch, and they hold them without any spacers, and are able to vibrate freely exceptionally well.
Did you sell your Tubular Array? Have any results on your quenching circuits?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 05, 2010, 09:08:41 am
I have the cell cleaned up, and the front of the alternator mounted, I need to finish up some electrical connections and get it all together. Finding the time I need to get this done is hard with school, and a bunch of other stuff on the go, but it's getting exciting.
It looks like its time to start your engine, sir....
Steve
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 05, 2010, 19:24:18 pm
don, my rotor measures 3.21 ohms
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2010, 15:30:21 pm
Stan says in the first dune buggy idle video "5 volts and 2 amps, 10 watts" ... that means the resistance of his rotor was at most 2.5 Ohms.
If I put 5 volts across my rotor I will get 1.72 Amps.
To anyone who has an alternator... can you measure your rotor's resistance please? I would like to see if this matters at all, considering the possibility of rewinding the rotor with a lower resistance.
My alternator rotor measures 79,8ohms. Don't know this helps you... ::)
br, webmug
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2010, 17:16:29 pm
79.8 Ohms ???
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2010, 18:59:57 pm
25 ohms here......strange is it
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2010, 20:12:46 pm
49 Ohms for the rotor of my delco remy... measured from the input posts. when i measured the resistance on my motorcraft alternator I measured from the slip rings.
I wonder what this has to do with the function of the alternator, or the function of the RVIC
I have been doing some thinking, and some measurements on some pictures, and I agree with Dynodon, that Stan's RVIC used 18 gage wire, and Stan's chokes in the plate cell also used 18 gage wire. Now I am thinking more in the context of comparing the RVIC to the plate cell VIC.
Why use 18 gage wire? It's pretty thick wire. It allows amps through...
18 gage wire has 6.358 Ohms/1000 feet, compared to the 30 gage wire I used which has 103.2 Ohms/1000 feet
I have about 2800 feet of wire in the RVIC ~ 96 ohms/phase Stan's RVIC... at a rough guess ~ 0.6 to 0.7 ohms per phase In the chokes for the plate cell VIC a rough guess would be ~ 0.2 ohms The plate cell Chokes have 28*4 = 112 turns in total
I have 50 turns per loop of 30 gage (0.010") Kevin says 30 turns per loop of 24 gage (0.020") A guess would be 15-18 turns of 18 gage (0.040")
Which means he has 5-6 turns per loop per coil, so 60-72 turns per coil, 180-216 turns per phase, 1130-1356 feet of wire per phase.
Why use 18 gage wire? Yes, this is the early system, start simple, get it to work... then improve on that...
This would certainly be easier to make, only 540-648 turns for the whole alternator, compared with 5400 turns in mine... KISS...
I think I will try and get another alternator or another stator and wind an RVIC with 18 gage wire... test that as well as the 30 gage...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2010, 23:41:12 pm
with smaller gauge i believe we can make a small tube arangement react like a injector.. heavy gauge is probly best for larger capacitance cell to allow faster rise in voltage across all cells.. stan used 18 gauge with a tube arry of 9 tubes? and they were all how tall??? so theres alot of capacitance there and the only way a negative and positive potential will show on the plates is by enableing current in the choke??? but it isnt technically current induced since it doesnt want to cross the gap y the emf force in chokes but with force but crosses at the resistance of water.. since the bifilar chokes are just trying to match the plate to there inner potential and not trying to force across water.. he says 4 -5 amps???? while at the end of the wfc tech brief he throws in
40,000volts @ 1ma= 40 watts.. 40watts at 12 volts= 3.33 amos is this a spec for 6-1?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 07, 2010, 01:30:14 am
Wondering are you guys measuring the ohms of the rotor at the slip rings copper or at the outer leads. At the outer leads there is a carbon brush to the slip rings (resistive) isn't it?
Also I'm wondering if its better to install NEO magnets on the fingers of the rotor.
Next item is all the foam in the water bath adds up to liters of fuel sticking inside the cell bath, seems like a waste, like its not quite fully split as the electrons maybe trying to reattach quickly. My tube set needs something else some ionic force to split up that foam.
I'm curious to hear more results.
Keep posting, as its helpful to hear about all tests.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 07, 2010, 02:54:52 am
i am measuring right where the wire connects to the rings.. not though the brushes.. my meter is in consistant.. i get between 3.4 and 3.5 compared to my first reading of 3.2ohms
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 07, 2010, 03:15:17 am
Stan looks at his volt meter and amp meter to get the readings "5 volts and 2 amps" which means the whole resistance of that part of the circuit is 2.5 Ohms... which would include the brushes...
When I measure mine directly at the slip rings I get 2.9 Ohms... which is more that his 2.5 which includes his brushes... so his resistance is lower overall.
Does it matter? I don't know...
I'm going to be doing some more reading, I have some 18 gage wire, I'll try and get another alternator or another stator next week, as well as get this 30 gage stator hooked up properly.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 07, 2010, 03:32:02 am
don coudn't you apply little bit higher voltage to reach 2 amps ? isn't the same ?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 07, 2010, 08:03:46 am
i don't know if it matters at all, i'm just curious about it, it would be a lot of work to take apart and rewind a rotor anyway...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 07, 2010, 22:48:37 pm
Finally measured my rotor through the outside leads actually through my external connected wire leads to the alternator it was 2.6ohm and included the carbon brush's. The wire on that rotor looks like #18 I guess, can't remember but think I measured it a few months back. Have run up to 12 amp to that rotor but don't recommend it for long periods of time.
There are so many variables for this alternator experiment that more results posted can help us find the best or most efficient combinations of windings and connections. So you guys get those alternators running and its time to see a list of findings and with the group of us maybe we can come up with the efficientcies and the best approach to using the alternator.
I know this is Don's thread but am pretty sure posting here would be alright wouldn't it Don? If something is out of line you should be able to dump it out.
But just for the record I am using a large case alternator from a 1980's Ford truck and think since it was a single winded one it had to be called a 70 amp or 100 amp model. I have connected the 3 windings completely in series and did this because I saw H20Power post this connection with 1 diode only.
Am very curious to see all the results of the Meyer type winding connection you are using.
Go Guys!
Ooops for got to add did everyone make sure there carbon brush seated connection is clean otherwise with a messy slip ring you'll get that lousy distorted connection.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 07, 2010, 23:51:02 pm
I welcome everyone to post, discuss, think, contribute, suggest, report, encourage and succeed. Anyone that is working on an alternator, feel free to bring your work into this topic, in particular this topic is for the development and progress of the alternator in regards to the RVIC, and the related components and interaction and function of it, and even how it relates to other systems to accomplish the ultimate task of powering a WFC.
This topic has really been a journey, of research, and discovery, and understanding, and progress, and we're really only just getting started, in the coming weeks and months we well have practical development and results. I hope more people will become interested in the RVIC project and make one as well!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 08, 2010, 02:53:48 am
I started making this video months ago, and just decided to finish it. It's made of clips from various videos of Stan.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 23, 2010, 22:22:29 pm
Here's a video I found browsing youtube.com using just basic off the shelf items. Looks like a good start. Also looks like he at one point looped the output of the rotor to the input of the stator after initial excitation.
Andy
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 23, 2010, 22:56:53 pm
Yes, I watched this the other day and sent him an email to come see this topic.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 24, 2010, 20:41:42 pm
This is a great thread , im really excited and cant wait to see how these alternators perform ;D
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 28, 2010, 18:58:17 pm
heres a perspective i think is being missed in the solid state non rotary version of a vic.. if stans rotary vic is the first method of making it work. then there are some truths there that are over looked when it comes to pulsing.. the secondary of the rotary isnt just getting a unipolar pulse nor are the chokes its a ac sine hitting secondarys and chokes.. when building a solid state would it make sense to allow a ac wave into the primary? i think stan considers the on time in the circuit when electrons condense at the blocking diode that goes to pos choke at this same time neg choke is being electricaly effected by secondars which i think sends the resonant gap into a neutraliztion and then off time is when them same condensed electrons are being released in the opposite direction rubber banding that condensed charge and creating double the reaction.. this would give a doubled voltage response to the pos choke where secondary connects.. now if this holds true then when emf is condensing negative potential at diode then it is also making the negative choke try to go positive during electron condensing at diode in secondary... this will allow negative potential to drop in the cell neg plate which is what you want to allow electron to travel back that way.. it is also making negative choke react with postive choke in efforts to swing it back to 0 and falls in a negative direction.. but i think as long as the swing doesnt surpass original 0 then its not a ac wave in the cell..
really think on how rotary primary is generating ac wave and all wires are interacting with ac but they are pulsing dc due to isolation of 1/3 of the winds while 2/3 as well have a mutual characteristic (length and size) as well as a mutual space relationsip (distance from each other) i think its a good observation some may not be relating to between a solid state version and rotary..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 28, 2010, 19:10:28 pm
Outlawstc I like your thinking. Sorry to throw this in here Donald. One thing bad about AC is a starting point because were plagued with a decrepid 60cycle poluted signal. That 60 cycle AC needs to be controllable like the Husky inverter I sent to ElectroJolt he made it so it provides variable cycle AC. Or do you think the poluted 60cycle AC is okay? Its almost like Stan used that 60 cycle signal and just pulsed maybe a duty on it.?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 28, 2010, 19:58:25 pm
im thinking it needs to be variable.. like for the rotary mine has 12 claw poles total 6 pos and 6 neg.. 1 turn 1 second is 6 hertz so it must turn 10 times in 1 second to be 60 hertz sine.. that is 600 rpm on the alternator to maintain a 60 hertz sine.. a alternator is the perfect generator for ac source. i wounder if stan altered the frecuency output of the rotary version by varying the speed of the motor turning the alternator.. and then varying the voltage input to alternator to vary output in production.. if a alternator can lets say turn 5200 rpm then by varing speed you vary pulse width and duty.. 5200/60 seconds=86.66 rotations a second.. now we know 1 rotation a second is 6hz.. so 86 is 516hz then a alternator has 3 phases so go ahead and times that by 3 and you see the alternator is capable of 1548hz or 1.5khz now from my belief in resonance i think it is possible for higher frequencys to develop in the cavity.. like 1khz signal may be able to motivate 2 khz oscillations with a high q.. i dont know.. but i do know i am starting to look at what potential differences need to occur on the plates to encourage orbital oscillation to accelerate the particles to ejection.. stans water polarization setup i dont think follows this concept its more or less just proving that voltage can separate while amos can be restricted by gap and bifilars..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 28, 2010, 20:40:49 pm
AC into the Rotor... try it, only takes removing your bridge rectifier, 5 minute test.
It doesn't seam logical to me to try this method and expect it to work, there is absolutely nothing to back this up in Stan's work, but who can argue with something that takes 5 minutes to test, go for it.
You want to start messing around with variable frequency AC into the rotor, go for it, it's not based on Stan's documentation and unless you have the equipment on hand it would, in my opinion, be a waste of effort.
As far as the alternating magnetic field that sweeps through the stator as the rotor turns, remember that the diodes stop conducting for the negative portion of the cycle, therefore the stator is "off". The only concern here is the collapsing magnetic field, which we want, and how the reversed magnetic field from the rotor will influence that. I mentioned this on the very first page of this topic.
Keep in mind that the RVIC works with this reversing magnetic field, true it is not in the solid state VIC. All that tells us is that it is not needed.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 28, 2010, 20:41:20 pm
Yeh I see what your saying. Also the particles and acceleration and electron ejections are relatable to having some adjustable control stepping fields plate width timing frequency oscillations. You may need to think about the frequency or sorry that could be I do (don't know), have the right idea but maybe the wrong hertz calculated. You see at 3450 rpm I am locking in on my o'scope to 345hz. And yes that may be an accumulation of the 3 windings which at 3450 rpm 345 total hertz sounds like 115hz per phase. My setup is one to one pulley. Anyways with all this said it appears that more control of the frequency is done by varying the prime-motor speed or a size change in pulley. The most accurate method will be to vary the speed of the motor. I hate to go out and buy new toys to do this. So what do you think would be a simple method of varying motors speed? Maybe a variac setup on a 120volt motor? Would that work? Then in my case a 6" pulley on a 3450rpm motor could give me the ability to get virtually near 0-790rpms on the alternator without changing the alternator pulley. So I started pulsing the rotor, you know it can get a diathermy effect and shows stepped charge. But overall the motor runs better when the rotor is not pulsed. Pulse the rotor the magnetics build and the motor feels the alternator pulsing and it also suffers the changing field. Soft strong soft strong so to speak, may damage the motor over time by over heating the motors windings. What bothers me is there is the appearance of a ton of gas there as it shoots out of the tubes. But in the real world does not amount to much LPM. So in my book this is not the resonant condition, to vary the frequency a control must be installed on the motor. (Back to that again). Yes the rotary control means has to be adjustable to find the sweet spot!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 28, 2010, 22:40:50 pm
Quote
AC into the Rotor
thats not what im saying.. im thinking analog into primarys of a regular core transformers... stan says 5vdc volts into rotor.. the rotors geometrical shape is a analog generator.. my point is the secondary on a regular non rotary vic in torroid form is getting analog of a positive polarity sine.. like the pulse rate can be variable to tune and is a 50% duty cycle.. the transistor that is triggering the wave going to vic primary has a analog voltage as a source that is variable with the amplitude control circuit.. most have a transistor hooked to 12 volts and are gating that to a coil that is wrong.. it must be taking the 12 volts and make it analog... your transistor output will be a constant variable voltage peak to peak with a variable frequency up to 10khz chopping it up... to goto primary
for the solid cor vic you need a 12 volt analog generator its the power source and must be variable in frequency.. it must maintain a 12 volt peak to peak constant and is variable in freq that can push the amp requirement needed in primary.. this analog signal is a freq range that is tuning in with rpms and injection for a car.. we will first experiment with a variable by hand control freq for observation stage which we are at
then you need a amplitude control circuit to be able to make that 12 volt source variable from 1-12 volts.. so it is regulating to lower volt analog from source analog.. you take the amplitude control circuit output and connect it to the cell driver circuit which is taking the analog variable that is coming from amplitude control and its chopping it up to a 50 percent duty cycle coming from pll circuit locking onto the resonant freq.. so it best we make a pll and use it to drive it since its constantly changing its not worth the time varying for observation
the alternator is making a analog signal that is variable in amplitude by input voltage to rotor.. that varible is reffered to as the amplitude control in above solid core version vic.. now im trying to grasp how he tunes the alternator into resonance.. . by varying the speed of the rotor is like the analog generator for the core transformer version. which is varying the freq to tune into the peak to peak consumption from the motor.. (matching peak outputs to injection cycles).. so how does stan pulse the cell with the alternator version??? is it the 3 phase freq and the speed of the rotor what tunes in?? is it possible to pulse to rotor up to 10khz and have it do the same thing as a cell driver circuit? i dont know but its getting clearer..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 01, 2010, 00:40:04 am
ive been think about the rotary vic quite a bit today.. take a look at this schematic and tell me what you see happening with the way the diodes connect.. remember all these winds are being hit with oscillating field.. and that field plays a role on switching
what i see happening is when the pulse is pulling electrons out the positive choke you have current at both diodes.. the electrons from the choke and the cell will be available to secondary.. then when it swings negative what will happen??? the diode going to the cell will not have electron flow since postive choke is in a dead short.. if anything it will circulate and remain open if it gained a positive charge?? secondary will be blocked from sending electrons and will not have a high postive on the other side of the barrier which is south pole on positive choke and its in dead short... it may be a dead short but that dead short will aid neg bifilar and secondary in current since its electrons will be reacting to rotor field? and them electrons will work with the other coils..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 02, 2010, 00:48:02 am
this is the reason i think the diode arrangement we first conceived is wrong..
Do you have further details about this setup that you are able to share?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2010, 06:04:16 am
i did a lil math i was curious what the rpms would be for a alternator rotor to match musical note.. i found a list of the frequencys for each not and made a little list thought i would share if anyone has a way to experment on notes.. notice that the first A note is 220hz and the second one down is 440.. they are doubled and this applys to all key notes.. so does this mean 220x5= 1100hz is A note as well?
NOTE FREQ alternator RPM A 220 733.333333… B sharp (b flat) 233.08 776.933333 B 246.94 823.133333 C 261.63 872.1 C sharp d flat 277.18 923.933333 D 293.66 978.866666 D sharp Eflat 311.13 1037.1 E 329.63 1098.76666 F 349.23 1164.1 F sharp G flat 369.99 1233.3 G 392.00 1306.6666 G sharp A flat 415.30 1383.3333 A 440.00 1466.6666 A sharp B flat 466.16 1553.8666 B 493.88 1646.2666 C 523.25 1744.1666
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2010, 16:06:07 pm
im curious if stan was sending a 0-12v analog signal to the rotor.. that would give u a rise and fall for peak production then the rotor pulse are the signal that needs to tune into resonance.. which deals with rpm of the rotor i noticed that the secondary switch off relay circuit is used for tappered cavity
i have been focusing on the words dynamic state of space and static state of space.. since stan says in the tech brief Dynamic State Space which varies Electrical Stress Intensity continually during Unipolar Voltage Pulse formation and Static State Space being an electrical condition by which Electrical Stress is being held constant during a certain time-period.
this to me means that when the positive choke has taken on a charge.. the negative will match that potential giving you the static 0v.. it can be charged to 1000v and on rotor off time will be static since the bilfs are just gonna remain balanced with slow discharge..
i think the signal that is being sent into rotor primary. when being pulsed is a dynamic wave form.. constantly changing in potential.. this will give you the dynamic state of space.. (constantly changing)
the input signal being analog and having a off time to allow the static state to play its neutral non changing field and the unipolar continuously changing potential is the dynamic..
for the analog signal it would be 0-12 volts variable frequency being gated to rotor.. the analog signal i think would have a good effect with the rotor fields.. how can u fluxuate to make dynamic state of space? by continuously changing the primarys current slow to fast slow to fast..(0v to 12v 0 volt to 12 volt.. i think this signal should be a square wave since if you allow full potential to be enabled at once unlike the wave of a sine.. the peak of the square is the charging time and is the dynamic state of space when its a 50 percent duty cycle.. (going high to low, high to low) then when you gate that square wave analog freq you givs a space in time for static state.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2010, 19:29:16 pm
If I may, I would like to point some cool things out. Adding a coil to any secondary in series will only act as if you added more windings to the secondary in effect, increasing the voltage. The way a VIC is drawn in most cases, the core the chokes need to be wound on is not shown, although, an important detail not to be missed. The Chokes do not have to be coupled to the primary/secondary core to work. They do, however, need to be coupled to their own core if not to the primary/secondary.
You will need to find the resonant frequencies of this choke coil. We can do this easily with just a 12-24v incandescent light bulb or 90v neon, the choke coils and a variable frequency generator. Play around with the circuit a bit and you will find the coils, at certain frequencies, will have a difference in brightnesses. The brighter the bulb, the more current is passing through the circuit. Find frequencies where the bulb goes out or very dim and you should be able to measure higher voltages with the right equipment. Try anything you have to measure just in case. Take note of these frequencies and next, set out to modify your driving signal from the alternator. This is a bit of a backwards way of doing it, but, it's cheap and easy. You can repeat the test with just the alternator and coil/light bulb too for further tuning, since, the alternator will change the parameters of the over all circuit also changing the resonant frequencies of the coil.
One last tidbit... When dealing with resonant frequencies in a circuit such as the VIC. We must realize the circuit as a whole is affecting the resonant frequencies of the coils for the fact of parasitic and distributed inductance and capacitance. When you connect a transformer to a choke, the choke will add the transformers inductance and capacitance to the circuit. Some times just putting your hand close to the device will also change the resonant frequency. For these same reasons, it is good practice to keep leads short as possible with components in your electrical experiments.
God bless!
Bubz
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2010, 20:02:54 pm
Oops! I have posted this in the wrong thread. sorry...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2010, 20:37:36 pm
Good info
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2010, 15:10:53 pm
hey donald,
just checkin in to see how your doing with this project...
as for mine it is wound and i havent had time to finish it.. i was gonna make a board like stan did and put it together how stans is seen.. but i decided i am gonna solder all the ends of them to red black and green wires and have them come out of the alternator red will be positive choke black is the negative and green will be the secondary.. i am gonna run all of these to one of them connection bars there i will be able to experiment with the arrabment however i choose..
i am going to be buying some 18 gauge wire soon and will be wireing up the crossover version in another alternator...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2010, 19:12:46 pm
Stator is on the shelf, I'm still thinking about this, working on the solid state VIC right now. I have the cell in my bedroom and can't run the alternator because it'll blow the fuse... did that once already.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 20, 2010, 02:31:39 am
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 15, 2011, 13:07:08 pm
Donald,
How about the 60A resistor? What do you think of that?
Steve
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 15, 2011, 15:29:08 pm
that picture is a from patent 661, where he was still keeping the chokes a secret, he says in the NZ video that there were a few things he would not tell people when demonstrating the technology, he said he would not tell people about the VIC, and he would not tell people how to make the Magnetized Gas for the EPG.
He says when people came against him he would put the question to them, and they couldn't explain how to restrict amps in a dead short, or how to make magnetized gas at room temp
This was to protect the development, so he was using chokes since 80-81, and didn't mention them explicitly in the patent until about 86, even though if you read the 661 patent carefully there is every indication that he is using chokes if you know what he is saying.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 04:11:38 am
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 10, 2011, 19:39:49 pm
I tested the RVIC, and I've seen some results that show promise and are worthy of further experimentation. I have not been able to replicate all the conditions stated in the patent yet, so there is more work to do. I wont be working on this again until summer.
This is the biggest topic on the entire forum, and I left it dead for about a year after I first wired up the RVIC and it didn't work, the reason why it didn't work was because in any three phase machine you have to wire one phase backwards, when you do this, it comes alive.
I want to share this video with you all as a hint that there more to learn and results to be gained by building the older systems. The Resonant Cell is all the rage today, and may be a more important path, but the alternator path does work. Stan ran the dune buggy on it, and he wrote in the news letter that he wanted to get it ready for mass production.
The RVIC is 3 VICs in one, it's the same, in just a different form. You can't use a plain old alternator like 50 people have tried, you have to wind a VIC inside it.
Some notes: (and all of these may apply to other VICs too)
The core must be unipolar, you can not have any ac waves in the core, or it destroys the blocking diode pulse action, I had one diode fail and I saw this, so I need more diodes to continue, and these were 1200 volt 30 amp diodes.
I think the grounding is important, not floating, I have more things I want to try in this area.
I have not been able to pulse the rotor yet, I think this is important, the alternator puts out 480-500 Hz with multiple pulses, so the scope sometimes reads 1-2 kHz depending on what it counts as a pulse. It would be nice to slice this up more at 5 kHz
I think my cell is too small. This system was designed to work on a big cell, I think for the same alternator and power, a bigger cell would put out more gas.
1/2 Horsepower motor might be too small, when I put 2 amps into the rotor I know it's near the limit, I did bog the motor down once, as you put more current into the rotor, the voltage goes up a lot, It would be nice to see what it can do with just a little more than 2 amps in the rotor, but Stan said he used 2 amps.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 23, 2011, 01:06:57 am
your top image kinda somewhat resembles Stephen Meyer's waveform. It looks like it just needs to be tune a little more.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 23, 2011, 02:05:55 am
yea, i've noticed some significant differences in the waveforms between combinations of running a single tube, or multiple tubes, or using three connected phases, or isolated phases, it changes the resonant frequency and the voltage output, more experimenting to be done in the summer, i'm still trying to decode these waveforms
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 21, 2011, 02:55:01 am
Donald, this is in response to your question on my 8xa circuit thread...
i suggest everyone with alternator versions to take interest in what im presenting..
this subject is in reference to stans canadian patent 1234774
Title: Hydrogen Generator System
I believe this patent describe the alternators version of stan's work.
Ok here is a example of Stans array tube set used with the alternator.. (http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/outlawstc/water%20fuel%20tech/anarray.jpg)
all tube sets are in parallel and you can turn off and on each one..
The rest of the figures show stans research results..
this one is showing
ELECTRICAL POWER VS H2O CONDITION VS GASGENERATED.jpg
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/outlawstc/water%20fuel%20tech/ELECTRICALPOWERVERSESH2OCONDITIONVSGASGENERATED.jpg) Notice the region between rain and city water.. Notice how at the rain water level of contamination that there is 1.2 - 8 amps but there is also a quantum leap in production rate of gas..
GAS GENERATED VS DIFFERENT APPLIED VOLTAGES VS H2O CONDITIONS (http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/outlawstc/water%20fuel%20tech/GASGENERATEDVSDIFFERENTAPPLIEDVOLTAGESVSH2OCONDITIONS.jpg)
This figure reveals a lot... it shows gas generation compared to voltage applied and the contaminate levels.. Notice how as voltage is increased the region of gas generation between rain and city becomes more and more vertical? this means alot.. it means when higher voltage is applied gas generation does begin to reach for infinity with low amps applied..
also notice that amps begin after the rainto city water range.. notice how peak amps Has the letter A and there is another line below with the letter B... A= no flowing water between the excitors.. B = flowing water between the excitors.
this one is explain how you get 3.75 times more production with a plate or ring array... tubes are the only way to go if your looking for efficiency...
GAS GENERATED VS EXCITER TUBE LENGTH (http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/outlawstc/water%20fuel%20tech/GASGENERATEDVSEXCITERTUBELENGTH.jpg)
notice that production at 2.5 foot of tube is 456 cubic inches per hour then notice the next example up is 120watts with 10 foot of exciter tube length.... notice that at 10 foot it begins to climb verticle for production rate..
Stan had an array that had over 10 feet of tube in it.. and as he increased above 10feet production climbed vertically!!! this is important to grasp.
3 foot of exciter tube with 84 watts will produce 456 cubic inches of fuel gas per hour 10 foot of exciter tube with 120 watts will produce 2700 cubic inches of fuel gas per hour
456 cubic inches = 7.47 liters of gas in 1 hour with 84 watts applied 7.47 liters = 124.5 ml a minute
10 foot of exciter produces 2700 cubic inch = 44.24 liters of fuel gas in 1 hour with 120 watts applied 44.24 liters per hour = 737.3ml a minute..
This is whats important to notice.....
3 foot of tube will produce 456 cubic inches with 84 watts right? 456 cubic" / 84 watts = 5.4 cubic inches of gas production per watt!!!!
10 foot of tube will produce 2700 cubic inches with 120 watts right? 2700 cubic" / 120 watts = 22.5 cubic inches of gas production per watt!!!!!!!
so with a extension of tubular surface area by increasing the length you are enabling more bang for your watt.. a 7 foot difference enabled a gain of 17 cubic inches per watt.... so when you think of stans boiler cell... think of a container that has like 50 1 foot tube sets in it... imagine 50 foot of tube with 700 watts..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2011, 14:25:48 pm
3 foot of tube will produce 456 cubic inches with 84 watts right? 456 cubic" / 84 watts = 5.4 cubic inches of gas production per watt!!!!
10 foot of tube will produce 2700 cubic inches with 120 watts right? 2700 cubic" / 120 watts = 22.5 cubic inches of gas production per watt!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2011, 15:04:52 pm
1 mole of water should need minimally about 60 watts of electrical energy to become 33 liters of gas. 33liters = about 2000 cubic inches... so theoretically you should minimally at 100% efficient electrolysis have at least 33cubic inches per watt.
So meyer is showing with this graph that the greater is the surface the greater is the efficiency, so he is saying that the smaller is the amps per surface the better it is.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2011, 18:16:04 pm
This is known as Exponential Growth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth)
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2011, 19:18:53 pm
I'm not sure if this graph means that if you have 1000inches tube you could get over-unity. It's not clear. I believe it would grow up only to a certain limit witch in this case could be the theoretically maximum allowed energy needed for electrolysis. If you analyze it well it could set only a limit of maximum exciter surface relative to the watts... Probably the best figure of efficiency amps per square cm-.. like.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2011, 19:35:32 pm
I guess the best way to see it is the more surface area there is.. The more area there is for the traveling waves to effect..
This is what we need to do,
we need to know one of the following 2
1) The inductance of each phase of a regular non rewound alternator or 2) the inductance of the positive choke within the rewound alternator..
the inductance of each phase should be close to the same...
you need to take a scope reading of your alternators output frequency since it is dependent on rotors rotation speed..
so we have to set variables..
1) inductance 2) frequency..
we must now match capacitance to the 2 set varables..
this will allow your inductor to resonate at the same freq as the alternator pulsing... and you will have LC resonance at the same time..
or you could have an exterior bifilar choke possibly..
measure its inductance... measure the alternators output frequnecy match capacitance... add a scr between the alternator and choke and you could gate the LC resonant signal if you want...
just some ideas...
all of us who have the alternator versions need to figure out how we can obtain around 20 foot of inner and outter stainless tube.. and make a array of 20 one foot tube sets.. then figure out what arangement the array needs to be in (series/ or parrallel) in order to bring the capacitance into the range needed top allow LC resonance...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2011, 19:47:57 pm
The figure of this graph is in the other page. where he shows that the gas is linearly dependent on the amperage for distilled water. By the way where in hell distilled water conduct 1 amp at 110v?
He also show another graph showing the production increase also linear with the inches... probably the tube have about 1 inch circunference...
. As the tubes has the circunference fixed the increase in length become almost linear for long tubes...
The most important figure is that he shows that the movement of the water reduce the amperage while producing the same amount of gas. Might also be the reason tubular set is better, in the end even without a pump the bubbles tend to go up pumping up the water.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2011, 23:34:42 pm
i would say the amps across distilled water is dependnt on a few things gap, surface area and voltage..
but Im not here to try and discredit Stan's analyzations.. I'm here to try and use them to prove stans process.. in the patent Stan actually compares power in to power produced.. I'm sorry that it just so happens that stan is trying to relate that the longer the surface area the more gasses per watt..
In a 6 inch cell how far does a transmission have to travel in the exciter plate? 6 inches! so that is all that wave was able to contribute too.. what happens to a wave at the end of the tube? it ends!.. so the longer we make a tube the longer the wave can travel!!! the longer the voltage pulse wave can travel the more work it can do!! since it is interacting with more water.. it does not mean you need one long 50 foot tube to perform the task.. they can be cut down into an array which totals 50 feet..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2011, 16:26:13 pm
Outlawstc,
I'm not sure what wave you talk about, actually the things i said wasn't to discredit, i just wanted to ground the discussion, I just pointed out my opinion about the water circulation for the amp restriction, and pointed that stan in this patent seems was doing only simple electrolysis at least he did it to determine the geometrical dependences for electrolysis, even if he mention another patent, his focus was more around the synthgas... hydrgen airdation...
The wave i think go on is microwave and the gap of the cavity might be tuned to this... I believe for the water meyer was using the stimulated emission principle maser.
br
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2011, 16:58:48 pm
Stan was tuning into LC resonance to match the wavelength of the gap.. he allways claims to tune into a wavelength of a gap.. he never reffers to tuning into a atomic resonance for separating the water into gas. But he does kinda refer to an electron resonance when speaking of hydrogen fracturing (gas ionization) other then that he allways refers to tuning into the wavelength of the gap.. the only wavelength i can think of logical for the gap is a LC resonant wavelength.. based totally on exciter gap, surface area, the dielectric property of water, inductance and the like..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2011, 17:57:21 pm
A microwave oven 2,4GHz has a wavelength of 12.2 cm, water maser fundamental resonance is around 22GHz, and this is in 1/4 wave length 3,4mm... There are however many modes coming up to 96GHz witch would have a 1/2 wave around 1,5mm stans gap aproximatelly.
The lc is related i think to the spacial displacement of the ions, electrons... But i'm not sure on that... Stan stated so many things... seems more to be in accordance with the laser pulse repetition rate, commonly between 5khz and 10khz...
The time for transition of exited state to spontaneous emission is around 10^-8 seconds, so at least 100MHz frequency.. Lasers to get coherence needs to have more molecules in exited state, and is a matter of probability, so one never goes for the first transition to assure you get more atoms exited... To have stimulated emission you want all the atoms to emit in sync...
As i said water will emit laser but as its photons has low frequency of vibration, in the microwave infra-red range, its called maser. I think historically it came before the laser. Actually a laser is called an optical maser. Water Masers were observed in the universe...
Food for thought
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2011, 18:28:34 pm
Seb, im not gonna be playing with microwave frequencys. are you? if so i suggest being careful.... stan did not make a bunch of different claims.. here is his claims for resonance..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2011, 19:29:16 pm
I would go for high power density pulse laser to try inverting the population and let the energy bounce back inside the cavity at water microwave frequencies ... I believe some how this is how the amps are mainly restricted.. As the cavity can be made close i guess all the energy will remain inside as i don't want to focus it anywhere but there... The electric field will be provided by the two series lc pulsed circuit, having those diodes... I think there still the need for another power supply to deflect the right molecules into the cavity..
I think is important to understand how to select high energy state molecules to go into the cavity...
The cool thing is that a high energy state molecule get deflected in electro or magnetic fields in opposite direction to ground state molecules... isn't that amazing?
Maybe that ground in the bottom of the cavity had this intention...
What lead me to think microwave is the word resonant cavity. There is not such thing for 10khz in terms of wave frequency... this would have km sizes...
br
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2011, 19:53:24 pm
Quote
What lead me to think microwave is the word resonant cavity. There is not such thing for 10khz in terms of wave frequency... this would have km sizes...
Seb thats such a narrow observation to conclude that stan was using microwave frequencies for the electrical polarization process..
Stan had a electrically charged molecular resonance that was in resonance with a electromagnetic resonance being transmitted yes.. but i by no means think he achieved this by tuning into any atomic frequencies that are in ghz range..
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2011, 20:37:20 pm
I don't want to convince anyone, I just raise the question, He clearly talk about messing around with electron resonance energy levels, there is only one way this can be done. Laser principle... He talks about ejecting electrons, out of the orbit, the only way you can have atoms to do this with no expense in energy, is to keep the energy there and than do whatever you want with the material...
I'm saying the cavity will have high energy accumulated, this is potential, (not consumed) when you transmute one molecule it will give off the energy to the others and so on...
I'm not sure how the electron ejection occurs this is hard to find, they only talk about the photons actions... But my best guess is that having the energy inside it will keep inside or would get into the atoms, however as we want to have destabilized atoms i see no problem. however i guess the energy will keep mostly inside the cavity, this will aid the process on other molecules... He says that he momentaneusly pluck off the electrons of the oxygen and when the atoms recombine with those electrons they get neutralized and released as gas... He than state when the gas atoms further suffer loss of electrons, they cause fisical impact cause they get deflected by the voltage fields witch is what he call Resonant action... probably xrays would be the best to induce this electron ejection... 13,6ev is not hard to achieve.. actually applying 13,6 volts over a filament will produce electrons with this energy... the thing is to make this get into the cavity ...
Microwaves are not a big problem, they have low ev energy, So we could charge the water probably with visible light energy to get high energy state.
The number of photons we provide will be absorbed and than the water will in the end emit amplified microwave witch will remain enclosed into the cavity...
Just ideas...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2011, 21:22:03 pm
well seb your posting what could be considered exotic ideas on a thread thats trying to focus on a specific process through the left behind works of stan.
It simply side tracks and confuses everyone trying to learn about the rotory vic... can we keep this thread based on stans documents about the rotory vic.. rather then theoretical ideas that are over complicating what stan says....
thats all i ask.. if you want to bring up somthing exotic from what stan describes feel free to do so on a new thread.. i just wanna keep this thread based on stans information provided in his patents.. so people who are trying to learn that have less of a understanding are not getting lost in your theorys of the process,,
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2011, 21:56:29 pm
ok, sure... br
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2011, 00:11:23 am
I have a pretty large tube cell just sitting around! Looks like I need to start an alternator project now too haha All the info on this threat is great! Thanks guys, I never really understood what was going on but now I think I have a much better idea how to go about this
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2011, 08:51:08 am
In Puharich's writings he talks about using low frequencies just like Meyer did. Which both of their setups were very similar in many ways, but Puharich does make reference to pulsing his cavity with these low frequencies and measuring frequencies at the cavity up into the Ghz range. I have witness some similar effects where I was pulsing at low frequencies just over 2khz and measuring frequencies at the cell over 100khz.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2011, 11:15:23 am
Thats what i was talking about... a microwave for example uses HV dc and create microwaves by accelerating electrons thru the cavity, works like a flute... The cavity configuration might be secret... The microwave is in the rotating modes of molecules... IR is vibration... UV is photoelectric... exitations... anything is photons, the higher the frequency the greater the energy... even RF... but the lower the frequency the bigger is the wavelength...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2011, 12:22:55 pm
A microwave oven 2,4GHz has a wavelength of 12.2 cm, water maser fundamental resonance is around 22GHz, and this is in 1/4 wave length 3,4mm... There are however many modes coming up to 96GHz witch would have a 1/2 wave around 1,5mm stans gap aproximatelly.
The lc is related i think to the spacial displacement of the ions, electrons... But i'm not sure on that... Stan stated so many things... seems more to be in accordance with the laser pulse repetition rate, commonly between 5khz and 10khz...
The time for transition of exited state to spontaneous emission is around 10^-8 seconds, so at least 100MHz frequency.. Lasers to get coherence needs to have more molecules in exited state, and is a matter of probability, so one never goes for the first transition to assure you get more atoms exited... To have stimulated emission you want all the atoms to emit in sync...
As i said water will emit laser but as its photons has low frequency of vibration, in the microwave infra-red range, its called maser. I think historically it came before the laser. Actually a laser is called an optical maser. Water Masers were observed in the universe...
Food for thought
I believe you are on the right track concerning the laser.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2011, 14:03:18 pm
Tony, any idea why you saw this increase in frequency? I've always saw a decrease
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2011, 21:49:32 pm
A microwave oven 2,4GHz has a wavelength of 12.2 cm, water maser fundamental resonance is around 22GHz, and this is in 1/4 wave length 3,4mm... There are however many modes coming up to 96GHz witch would have a 1/2 wave around 1,5mm stans gap aproximatelly.
The lc is related i think to the spacial displacement of the ions, electrons... But i'm not sure on that... Stan stated so many things... seems more to be in accordance with the laser pulse repetition rate, commonly between 5khz and 10khz...
The time for transition of exited state to spontaneous emission is around 10^-8 seconds, so at least 100MHz frequency.. Lasers to get coherence needs to have more molecules in exited state, and is a matter of probability, so one never goes for the first transition to assure you get more atoms exited... To have stimulated emission you want all the atoms to emit in sync...
As i said water will emit laser but as its photons has low frequency of vibration, in the microwave infra-red range, its called maser. I think historically it came before the laser. Actually a laser is called an optical maser. Water Masers were observed in the universe...
Food for thought
I believe you are on the right track concerning the laser.
Hope so mina, if you have or anyone have any ideas please share in the atomic energy thread... lets give this thread some peace, its getting quite long...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2013, 02:39:27 am
Don is that the ''fake'' alternator that came from the repair shop instead of the original one?thanks!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 06, 2013, 11:45:20 am
Anybody wants to restart this thread?I think it is too bad to let it that way,Donald ?outlaw?I setup my jig with one standard alt and an ac motor...Now the fun part starts in rewinding...Thanks!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 06, 2013, 11:57:53 am
I have an alternator. Does anyone know where I could buy an unwound stator for it?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 06, 2013, 21:32:23 pm
Today i tried dave lawton alternator schematic,which is copied after Stan's,and i got double the voltage output.I also pulsed the rotor but the output was just 3v at all freq.,i dont think is a good ideea...because it reduces the rotor field very much...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 09, 2013, 03:11:12 am
Where did Don go? This thread is in his project section. It's been a long time since I posted and seems like a lot of info and work was done.
Anyways some time ago I purchased a new Ford maybe 200 amp stator and bearings from ebay , and before that a used 200 amp Ford alternator. It appears the same as Don's. I think this version is from the 1980's. Yesterday I finally said its time to wind this although I do not think my choice of wire was the best but it was in the cupboard and available. I had #16 wire and trifillar wound each phase, today I tied the windings at work. Its now setup waiting to dip and bake, there are some motors at work that are almost ready to dip and bake and this stator will be done with them. Drying or setting the dip takes about 5 hours at near 275 degree's. After reading the thread this was not mentioned. If the windings are not treated, the magnetic action of the rotor does pull the windings and they wobble or vibrate. When the stator is dipped and baked minimum twice the wire becomes very permanent in its position and will not really wobble or vibrate and the stator will and can last a long time. The cell I will test has 21 tubes of 11" long approximately 1" diameter inner. The array is 7 sets of 3 tubes and can be connected in pairs or triplets. I have available at work a 240 volt 50 amp variac and this will run my 2HP 240 volt motor but now I can use a larger motor pulley and vary the speed which I wanted to do for a few years. Anyhoo pretty soon I'll make this test finally.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 09, 2013, 12:39:26 pm
Good work komtek.Glad to hear someone is still working on the r-vic....I am playing with a stock alt.hooked like the demo one but it's low voltage,because its half rectified and uses just the top cycle.I also put 12v 120hz and 12v strait dc into the rotor and with ripled dc was drawing 1.5A,strait dc was 1.8A,but the voltage was also higher with 1.8A.The motor i use is geting hot quickly...dont know why...its a 220v,450w,1500rpm... Cheers!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 10, 2013, 01:21:48 am
This is my 3rd or 4th configuration. Your motor is too small that's why it gets hot. For testing purposes driving the alternator seems best done with 1.5 to 2 hp or more depends on the load. Leaves room to adjust the rotor. 1 hp = 746 watts. Your motor just over 1/2hp will work but with problems, as you draw a large load on the alternator. I had used 1/3rd HP in the beginning and did not like it at all, changed that quickly.
This time I hope the internal chokes do something a little different for me.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 11, 2013, 13:07:14 pm
thanks komtek,i think so too,but i'm not putting much of a load to it...anyway... Can you/guys help in descifering this photo?Don said its a normal fullbridge rectifier for each phase...I made it negative so we can see the back and i traced some of the back conections....cheers!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 11, 2013, 15:22:01 pm
Whats on the other side. There should be a wire connection in between each diode for bridge.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 11, 2013, 17:58:13 pm
yes i think there is,the first phase is between the 2top diodes,and also on the 2bottom diodes,the thick track must be + for the wfc...but how about the other 12 wires for the chokes???
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 11, 2013, 22:56:14 pm
Glad to see some interest in this again.
I still have mine, but I need to put a diode in it to replace one that burnt out. It was a 1200V 30A diode, so I don't know how it failed, max I saw was ~350 V at ~1.5A, wound with 30 gauge wire. That is with a max of 12V on the variac rectified.
I might eventually wind another stator with 18 gauge wire like Stans original.
Also need to build the pulsing circuit to pulse the field windings, have all the parts waiting...
The big deal is getting the proper size cell for it. My cell is too small, so I did not continue testing it very much. So a few things left to do to get it tested properly.
As far as dipping the stator, yes this is a good idea, but only if the thing works... You could test it for many hours before the vibrations would wear through the insulation, but as soon as you figure that the winding configuration is useful, then you should dip it. I tied my wire up, but never dipped it because I didn't get to that point in the testing.
I have a 1/2 hp motor, and it runs fine as long as you don't turn up the variac too much, but this may change if you have a much larger cell or thicker stator wire.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 11, 2013, 23:06:25 pm
Glad to see you again Donald,i am planing to rewire my alt too with thinner wire,,,You said you got 350vout of it,but what hapened when you hooked it up to the cell?the voltage droped and kiled the motor?cheers!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 13, 2013, 00:55:52 am
How about what not to do? I was ready to put this together in the housing, forgot all my past experiences. Do not make the loops to large, it won't fit. Lucky I work for a motor shop. I'll cut this one, and redo it in 18 wire as it should have been in the first place.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 13, 2013, 01:26:55 am
Cool!That looks almost like Stan's,you are right about the coils,they are a bit large.I saw you got 18 leads out ,you are using bif chokes?how many turns do you have per loop?Cheers!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 13, 2013, 17:11:38 pm
adys15 on this particular alternator there is basically 4 loops per coil segment with #16 wire. Now I'm changing to #18 wire and looking at a different Meyer print.
The Meyer diagram with the CT's and 0 connection to the cell. Wondering if the 0 connection is to pull out of solution the free'd electrons from the process. The fact that it (0 water) reconnects into that center-tap makes me wonder. Also it appears the CT connect uses only 1 independent core, not 3.
For simplicity I'm guessing the center tapped secondary is just 2 full coil winds (edit add, bifilars) positive choke 1 full coil wind and negative choke 1 full coil wind. If I choose to match impedance then either the bifilar is twice as long as the pos/neg coils or I choose a smaller wire size (#22) and bifilar it same length to maintain same resistance as coils. May be missing something so will have to think about it for a while. The impedance of the neg and pos choke together is the same as the secondary (wouldn't you think?). The CT separate circuit on its own core, I'm wondering if maybe its winding should be equal to the impedance of the full secondary, or the size of one section of secondary? This can be mounted on the outside of the alternator, also can be changed or rewound.
From past experiences playing with standard alternators and no modifications to windings, they produce a nice signal and can supply all the current needed by the load attached. Whats nice is the rotor wind (magnet coil) can be adjusted and used as a current limit. Interesting would be if the multi-coil wound phases are able to produce some current limit and allow voltage to be the dominant force.
Couple questions need answered. It can appear as if the chokes are separate from the stator. Also CHOKE 56 and 62 state 11.6k ohm,s in memo 427. Questionable as to separate cores! Kind of appears as separate cores, also the 11.6k ohm easily can be a coil measured with inductive reactance at 5k frequency depending on wire length which can be composed of #18awg or so estimating 120 turns or so even on air core, it's not out of sight.
Amp Inhibiting Coil-Assembly (617) is made up of magnetic inductance Stainless Steel 430FIFR wire material wrapped around a closed-loop Induction Magnetic Core (619) which is a separate coil-unit (860) apart from VIC Coil Assembly (not stating the resistance in ohm's).
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 17, 2013, 03:39:30 am
Donald where did you get the bottom text from the picture you posted,cuz' i can find it anywere in the patents...thanks
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 17, 2013, 20:05:55 pm
Donald can you remember the ouside diameter of your rvic stator?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 19, 2013, 23:40:11 pm
Hi Komtek,
There is a drawing of Meyer with the famous third wire at the cell. If the alternator was electrically isolated from the frame and engine of the bug, then maybe the third wire from the cell was going to the frame / engine.
Steve
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 01, 2013, 00:12:00 am
There is a drawing of Meyer with the famous third wire at the cell. If the alternator was electrically isolated from the frame and engine of the bug, then maybe the third wire from the cell was going to the frame / engine.
Steve
Hi Komtek,
As promised are here the third wire drawings of Meyer. It includes an alternator setup... ;)
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 01, 2013, 01:24:18 am
Thank you Steve, Yes I was hoping for something I had not seen before. I am working with these drawings. Its good to have it posted again. In Donald's thread here these drawings are quite the ways back.
Third wire to cell is the CT tap to water.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 01, 2013, 02:30:55 am
I was reading the last couple of posts on Meyers third wire. If the 0volts goes to the water of the cell and looking at the diagram of 8-11
The top of the amp inhibiting coil (right side) goes through a diode to the center tapped alternator windings. Where does the ( left side) get
connected to. It says c/t on the end of the wire, what other center tap would it get connected to. Thanks.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 01, 2013, 04:49:45 am
Its zero level amplitude. Gets connected to all three center taps. You see 1 connected, then another lead from the diode that says CT and he does not show the last one. Notice all three windings show CT, then 1 more not shown but connected just like the others from the coil 617 another blocking diode 618 then to the last CT.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 01, 2013, 15:22:15 pm
Its zero level amplitude. Gets connected to all three center taps. You see 1 connected, then another lead from the diode that says CT and he does not show the last one. Notice all three windings show CT, then 1 more not shown but connected just like the others from the coil 617 another blocking diode 618 then to the last CT.
Thanks. So the one winding goes to all three center taps of the alternator. that would almost make another wye winding off each winding there or could be thought of as a 2 phase winding using a balance coil. I wonder if Meyers alternator had 6 or 7 poles. Or a 6pole in a 7 pole stator.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 04, 2013, 10:05:58 am
There is a drawing of Meyer with the famous third wire at the cell. If the alternator was electrically isolated from the frame and engine of the bug, then maybe the third wire from the cell was going to the frame / engine.
Steve
Hi Komtek,
As promised are here the third wire drawings of Meyer. It includes an alternator setup... ;)
If you look at Stan meyers setup, i would say that his first produced gas out of the alternator was brownsgas. He did not use any capacitor to smooth out the unregulated DC and the frequency could have been around 240hz. Brownsgas is hho with a 1 till 3 % H1.
Steve
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 04, 2013, 16:32:55 pm
If you look at Stan meyers setup, i would say that his first produced gas out of the alternator was brownsgas. He did not use any capacitor to smooth out the unregulated DC and the frequency could have been around 240hz. Brownsgas is hho with a 1 till 3 % H1.
Steve
Thanks for that percentage info, Steve. There was a time when I thought Brownsgas was H1 and OH. But I felt it wasn't straight hho.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 04, 2013, 22:33:52 pm
If you look at Stan meyers setup, i would say that his first produced gas out of the alternator was brownsgas. He did not use any capacitor to smooth out the unregulated DC and the frequency could have been around 240hz. Brownsgas is hho with a 1 till 3 % H1.
Steve
Thanks for that percentage info, Steve. There was a time when I thought Brownsgas was H1 and OH. But I felt it wasn't straight hho.
I learned this the hardway, sadly enough. I made many adjustments to get around 150% faraday score with hho and drycells. But the bigger my cells became, the smoother my powersupplys, the worse my test engines ran. I had more gas, but my engines didnt run better. Quality of gas. I should had stayd with my unregulated powersupplys...... Now i know that H1 is the way. Not H2. Not H2 ortho or para. H1 is the key. Rossi knows. William Lyne teached him. Teached me. Good book from him.
H1 conversion to H2 releases 1000 times more energy then it costs to convert H2 into H1.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 04, 2013, 23:39:46 pm
great point,hho from dry cell is lower energy than high voltage electrolysis(Meyer's) when same volume(lpm).because dry cell has many water(gas form) in hho and don't have h1(from Steve).maybe 3lpm is enough to idle 1600cc engine.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2013, 14:03:34 pm
Rossi knows. William Lyne teached him. Teached me. Good book from him.
H1 conversion to H2 releases 1000 times more energy then it costs to convert H2 into H1. [/quote] Where can we find this book?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 06, 2013, 09:55:36 am
Someone on this forum has an alternator similar to Stans?,that could share the stator specs,especialy window dimensions,to calculate how much wire is alowed to wind,and aproximate the voltage output.My small alt.puts out 35v with 5v 0.8A at the stator.Komek you said you play a lot with all kind of alternators,maybe you find a ford big alternator to measure it,thanks!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 06, 2013, 10:58:01 am
Someone on this forum has an alternator similar to Stans?,that could share the stator specs,especialy window dimensions,to calculate how much wire is alowed to wind,and aproximate the voltage output.My small alt.puts out 35v with 5v 0.8A at the stator.Komek you said you play a lot with all kind of alternators,maybe you find a ford big alternator to measure it,thanks!
Yes I got one, I'll make some measurements for you or post a picture. These are 6 pole rotors. One way to calculate wire to wind: - decide what wire you want to wind it with. - cut small pieces and fill a slot. - 6.25" wire loop is (2 x pi) basically
Will make slot measurements later.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 07, 2013, 01:46:04 am
Thanks so much Komtek.You know that is a ford 1g big size alternator no?I speant a lot of time finding the exact one but no stator specs,cheers!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 07, 2013, 02:20:06 am
Here's some pics, not the best but this appears to be the same alternator as Meyers. Stator core is 1 1/16" thick (slot length), average 1/4" wide and 7/16" deep slot , 6.25" coil should be correct and can be wound on a 2" outer diameter mold,jig whatever.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 07, 2013, 12:23:50 pm
That is the EXACT one Komtek,the ''ears'' holes the vent holes,the fan,the back case bubles thats the one,the 1g big ford alt.Man i was searching for days for those specs,i can thank you enough.I am a bit confused with the measurements because in my country i use metric,so thats so strange looking rullers you have,so let me see what i undestand(see pics).can you tell the stators outer diameter?from what i measured with irfanview based on your ruler the OD was 160mm.Oh and if you want /can you take a picture of the stator with the windings on it to compare it to Stans,also the number of winds per loop of the stock one,sory for that many requests but i want to see how much voltage Stan rvic was puting out and if it worts the effort,because i spent 1week trieing to wind a hv stator with 30awg and i let you gues what happened...:D...Thanks very much again Komtek!cheers!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 14, 2013, 14:07:04 pm
Hy guys,i'v been working hard on rewinding an alternator,this time with 0.8mm wire20turns per coil,but the output was only 6.8v,crap with 0.8A into the rotor.The coils were wound in the same direction clockwise like in the pic.What i'm doing wrong?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 14, 2013, 15:35:16 pm
This particular Ford alternator has 36 slots. We make a coil group of 12 coils 20 turns each. Did you do this? Start slot 1 span to slot 4, next coil start slot 4 span to slot 7 and so on. Also play with the rotor magnetic force, meaning maybe bring up the voltage/current for a stronger force in its field.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 14, 2013, 20:16:38 pm
thanks komtek,thats exacly what i did 12 coils /20turns each,wound all in the same direction,output 6v,the laws of electronix does not work for me!:D
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 14, 2013, 20:42:19 pm
Now check your rotor slip rings. Use emery cloth or something a little course fine grade and break any glaze on the slip rings. Check the brushes and just lightly take any glaze off them. Brush carbon will grind off fast so use 600 or higher sand paper just a couple swipes.
Then you should be able to get more dc on the rotor field.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 14, 2013, 21:35:32 pm
Thanks komtek,i dont think thats the problem,i think the coils are wound wrong.I think there must be 1 wound clockwise and the next counterclockwise,i am refering to one phase only.I spent a week winding theese bobins and got 6v very frustrating....
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 14, 2013, 21:58:23 pm
yes if you wind all the same direction on a bobbin, tie each coil and pull the group off the bobbin. When the coil is installed 1st loop goes up/over and second loop down/under like opening a spring. I just use a piece of pvc pipe same size as loop and wind by hand.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 14, 2013, 22:31:12 pm
thanks,i dont exacly what you mean by winding stile,can you make a quik drawing of the corect directions of each coil for one phase only?I use a ''sandwich''tipe former on my winding machine,and i dismentel the sandwich after each coil,very time consuming but the coils looks perfect.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 15, 2013, 02:26:14 am
Look at page 15 and 16. Follow the lead wire as it goes over then under.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 15, 2013, 11:43:19 am
Thanks soooo much Komtek,thats gold,old school with drawings and skematics,very very nice.Now i have to get some wire,because that that i wound is scraped all over.Cheers!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 15, 2013, 21:03:31 pm
What about this wiring style?i dont see it anywere
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 16, 2013, 03:32:20 am
That alternator/stator looks like 4 poles. Have never wound like that, have you tested this wind? I like it all filled up.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 16, 2013, 10:58:57 am
I haven't try it.4 poles N ,4South i think,here the page http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Rewind-an-Alternator/#step1
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 16, 2013, 20:24:38 pm
Now I'm interested in my lead in and out wire spacing if that actually makes a difference in voltage? That instructable might be incorrect about the lead out wires. If you read the instruct-able he states that the lead out wires should be separated by some slots and this changed his output voltage. I have a hard time believing it had any effect at all. Can anyone verify this information? This bothers me, for looking for a wind that can produce more voltage. The statement in the instruct-able may be correct in that it can produce more voltage and it could change things in the way we wind. I have an old TIGER alternator/generator made with permanent magnets, when spun with 3600 rpm it has 120v output 60hz these were made about the size of a small alternator. I'll try to take it apart without damage, however it will be very different due to the fact it is 2 poles. But it should make no difference 2 poles or 6 poles we should be able to figure out how to make the higher voltage output with multiple phases.
I'm sorry I have modified this post several times.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 17, 2013, 19:45:21 pm
As far I understand and correct me if I'm wrong. Number of wire turns suggests the potential of voltage, with a given field of magnetic flux. Strength of rotors magnetic flux has to saturate the stator for full voltage potential. Speed of rotor determines frequency. Lets take for example this Ford alternator at 36 slot with 6 pole rotor: Wire lead starts and leaves within one slot of each other or 12 slots of each other may not matter to the signal at all, as the sine wave seen should be the same either way. I can't see how the voltage would change as the number of turns of wire should be the potential of voltage available with the strength of the fields flux. The signal or sine wave will look the same, but if rotor is pulsed nice and slow lets say at 8HZ a strong magnetic frequency according to Schuman (I think). What I have seen at slow pulses the sine wave signal will step up at a nice angle. We can adjust rotor/field strength and flux appearance by pulsing the DC field to it.
This Tiny Tiger brand generator/alternator has 120vac output and also has a DC output, you can see the leads and diodes. It appears to be using #22 or #23 wire and can't tell you how many turns. The wiring method seen is one of the conventional types. Since the alternator has just enough power for a standard hand drill it is most likely only 1 wire in hand, I forgot to look closely at the lead splice. Its possible that it can be 2 in hand. There are many turns per slot, a good guess is all you can do unless I cut the wire out. Bottom line is it has many turns per slot, to produce its rated voltage output at 60hz frequency.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 17, 2013, 20:05:41 pm
As far I understand and correct me if I'm wrong. Number of wire turns suggests the potential of voltage, with a given field of magnetic flux. Strength of rotors magnetic flux has to saturate the stator for full voltage potential. Speed of rotor determines frequency. Lets take for example this Ford alternator at 36 slot with 6 pole rotor: Wire lead starts and leaves within one slot of each other or 12 slots of each other may not matter to the signal at all, as the sine wave seen should be the same either way. I can't see how the voltage would change as the number of turns of wire should be the potential of voltage available with the strength of the fields flux. The signal or sine wave will look the same, but if rotor is pulsed nice and slow lets say at 8HZ a strong magnetic frequency according to Schuman (I think). What I have seen at slow pulses the sine wave signal will step up at a nice angle. We can adjust rotor/field strength and flux appearance by pulsing the DC field to it.
This Tiny Tiger brand generator/alternator has 120vac output and also has a DC output, you can see the leads and diodes. It appears to be using #22 or #23 wire and can't tell you how many turns. The wiring method seen is one of the conventional types. Since the alternator has just enough power for a standard hand drill it is most likely only 1 wire in hand, I forgot to look closely at the lead splice. Its possible that it can be 2 in hand. There are many turns per slot, a good guess is all you can do unless I cut the wire out. Bottom line is it has many turns per slot, to produce its rated voltage output at 60hz frequency.
At 8 hz, you seen a stepup? Meaning added voltage?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 17, 2013, 21:24:47 pm
At 8hz gated pulse train several years ago I was able to get a step charge signal. Pulse train was higher frequency and was gated at this low frequency. If you ever read about Schumans Resonance, there are frequencys that will produce the strongest magnetic field or flux. (These are cosmic frequencys we are always under). I mentioned this many years back. Also playing with this, I got what I call a diathermy pulse. The current supplied to my cells could be adjusted to rise from 0 current to 30amps on and off / up and down like diathermy, loading and unloading and this appeared like it gave off as much gas as if I were to leave or rise the frequency on the cell. However I never adjusted to the full potential of my cell current. This was most likely done with a standard style alternator winding. My experiments were basically uncompleted due to the available equipment at the time they were done.
Step up meaning step charge, can't remember the voltage as I did not take notes but it was maybe 30 to 40 volts only, its been a while. This voltage was done with an alternator that had 35 turns per coil 70 turns per slot #23. I was complaining to myself the voltage was low. I was expecting higher voltages. Although I'm only using 12v pulsed applied to rotor. Much of my early experiments were tri tube sets each tube supplied with a separate phase.
EDIT ADD: Found some more information about alternator voltage. Sometimes a person has PDF's and doesn't necessarily read the whole thing. In this PDF page 5 states, spinning faster at a higher RPM will raise the voltage.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 18, 2013, 17:45:36 pm
A little study does shed a little light.
Now I can concentrate on size of wire for the alternator stator, enough current for a particular cell size. Then wind some chokes and amp inhibiting coil per Meyer third wire diagram. On this Meyer diagram it could be interpreted in many ways. What I see is: On stator dual bifilars 616a-616b, in those Meyer alternator pics we all see tri-filar maybe #18 wire wraps. Makes me wonder if the third wire with the bifilar is wrapped on the stator, and called 619 induction core and 617 amp inhibiting coil. Notice that the resonant charging chokes 56/62 are square box's showing no coil and my thinking would be air chokes and not on any core. If calculated correctly in an earlier post I put something like 120 tight turns #18 on 1" form and this equals 11.6kohms impedance at some frequency (maybe 5k this information needs to be checked again). #18 200c is good for pretty high current, then derated with temperature, its very hard to find the proper sheet. Based on what I read at 30c or 86f #18 in 90c jacket can do 14 amperes, this same wire at 80c or 176f can do 41% of 14 amperes. 200c coating will go a little higher in current lets say a couple amps so maybe 16 amperes. 80c is pretty hot and I have gotten to 65c before which would be 58% so just under 10 amperes per wire would be 20 or so amperes per 2 wire bifilar. This would or could equate to up to 60 amperes max available output of the stator. Now add in chokes at single wire #18, max out with no temperature rise could be as high as 15 amperes maybe derate to 66% 10 amperes per phase should be up to 30 amperes easily to cell available. Now if Meyers circuit would inhibit amps and the rotor was driven easily to 5-7k rpms and we got high voltage out over 100v, I'd be interested to see how much gas can be released with this method.
I'm thinking using #18 wire. Maybe that induction core is not part of the stator. It might have to be a separate core 619 and coil 617. This is something still to think about what will happen here in this coil. Also a decision if charging chokes 56/62 should be on stator or separate? It also may be possible these chokes 62 and 56 are why the secondary is dual bifilar.
It may just be a center tapped secondary with 2 chokes, total of 4 wires in hand.
If we choose to revue Figure 8-10 along with figure 8-11, then there is dual bifilar coils on the alternator and the chokes are outer coils. On 8-11 he mentions/points out (85) on the 0 connection which is used to propagate either static or dynamic electrical charging effect. In this case there there is 4 wires in hand and tied as center tapped dual bifilars. 6 outer chokes, and an amp inhibiting coil. The 0V (85)(621) is what has my attention.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 20, 2013, 06:51:04 am
MEN
The magnetic field induces a EMF because of the movement since the magnetic fields alternates....
The higher is the magnetic field the higher will be the voltage.
The higher the speed of the rotor the higher is going to be the voltage
But higher will be also the impedance!
Impedance is related to the frequency induced and the inductance of the stationary coils.
Thats why meyer calls an alternator a current limited device. As is any other type of electrodynamic (exclluding MHD and homopolar generators)
If You raise the speed you raise the impedance so current is limited to the impedance of the circuit, does not matter the load even if its a short circuit.
If you apply to the alternator rotor AC square wave you can raise its impedance, limiting the current it can provide, at least is predictable from theory and previous experience.
Thats because the alternator start to act as a transformer and as a generator at the same time.
The thing is, the rotor has very high inductance, maybe up to 20mh or higher so if you apply 5khz like stan says you could not have 2 amps flowing
since the impedance would be up to 0.020*3.14*2*5000= 628ohms if you apply 5v it would end up with 8ma flowing and this is way low magnetic field to induce anything at the stationary coils.
My alternator has more than 4Ohms rotor coil so if i wanted 2 amps flowing i should apply 8v dc
Theres only twp ways to apply 8v having a 20mh coil with 4 ohms at 5khz and have 2 amps flowing and they are
One:
Add a capacitor in series ! 50nf capacitor and pulse it at resonance with ac
Of course when two amps flow you must get 1256volts across the capacitor and coil...
or
Make a coil with little ohmic resistance and replace the rotor coil having 4ohms of resistance by one having 127uH or 4 ohms reactance
which you think is the righter way? or easier?
To apply such high frequency to the rotor is easy, it could be done using an H bridge a half bridge or still a series 1:1 transformer or a step up in parallel with the tank formed...
The safest mode would be a series transformer or stepup in parallel fed by a H bridge at resonant frequency...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 20, 2013, 16:25:57 pm
If need to limit current,it must be primary side.primary side need ac resonant to make highest amps because series lc circuit is limit current circuit(you never rise highest amps if no resonant occur).
Secondary side is not complex,just rectify and filter to DC.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 21, 2013, 05:47:20 am
Actually at resonance the Z tends to R if considered in series and if in parallel the Z tends to infinity Actually its proportional to the dissipation.
For example if you want a 500ohms reactance tank to have 2 amps flowing you must apply 1 kv if in parallel. if its in series you must apply the correct voltage to the resistance value....
In the case of parallel is easier since the only thing which changes is amp being consumed at the high voltage input.
So lets say you get a 20ohms resistance and you apply 1000v whats going to be the amp consume?
Simple 2 amps * 500ohms = 1000V so
2 amps * 2amps * 20 ohms = 80 watts so if you apply 1000volts it will consume 80ma!!!! so the impedance in parallel is 1000v/0.08A= 12.5kohms
To prove its correct lets analyze the series case
80 watts = 2 amps * 40volts
and 2 amps = 40volts / 20 ohms
So is simple to find the parallel equivalent impedance by using the watts short cut
Lets make a better figure
lets say we get a 1000ohms reactance and 2 ohms resistance this time
we want to know the current consume if we apply 10000volts
10000volts = 10 Amps * 1000XL
but 10A*10A*2 OHMS = 200WATTS
SO 200w/10000v=20mA and so 10000/0.02= 500kohm
Basically resonant amps Ir=V/XL and watts W=Ir*Ir*R
Thereto amps consume from high voltage source will be Iin=V/Zp where parallel impedance Zp= V/(W/V)
This means that if you apply 20mA per pulse (just to think about this is not exactly correct) it would take at least more than 500pulses to achieve 10 amps flowing in the tank....
Notice i didn't taked about frequency this time ... but reactance indeed has the frequency build in the number..
If you decide a frequency and at least one of the components the other can be found to make the circuit as described or predicted within this formulas...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 23, 2013, 19:16:44 pm
Does it make sense?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 14, 2013, 21:07:08 pm
Finally getting around to it again. Here's a pic of a double bifilar alternator, dual bifilar, or center tapped bifiar. Incomplete, but will be tied and dipped. As Steve says 3 lead to cell. Version copy of Meyers.
The final outcome is how the external coils will have to be made.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 14, 2013, 22:41:18 pm
Finally getting around to it again. Here's a pic of a double bifilar alternator, dual bifilar, or center tapped bifiar. Incomplete, but will be tied and dipped. As Steve says 3 lead to cell. Version copy of Meyers.
The final outcome is how the external coils will have to be made.
great stuff, John! Well done sofar. Lets see what it will brings.
Steve
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 15, 2013, 12:16:08 pm
Finally getting around to it again. Here's a pic of a double bifilar alternator, dual bifilar, or center tapped bifiar. Incomplete, but will be tied and dipped. As Steve says 3 lead to cell. Version copy of Meyers.
The final outcome is how the external coils will have to be made.
Nice,can you show your winding jig?and how did you group those coils to end up with the leads that way?dual bifiliar?how is that?i made a trifiliar one and didnt work at all,thanks
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 15, 2013, 19:20:01 pm
Adys, your not going to like this answer. A piece of PVC 1 1/2" white water pipe was just a 1/16" under 2" diameter 18" long. No slots or nothing. Really is not much work hand winding. Cut 4 strands of wire, 37' each. Mine are only 5 turns per coil.
Leads facing away from you, first coil in lead to right other side of coil to left. Second coil starts in the leads slot and then all coils go to right. This makes the start leads just right of the end of coil loop. Go all the way around, then the last lead wire out of coil will now just bend back around left on the outside of the coil and get tied.
When finished recheck all wire alignments and nomex paper. Make sure that no wire is out of paper against any metal. When completely wound tamp down the wire with a smooth rubber mallet over a piece of plastic used as a surface. Don't beat it to death but you can tamp reasonably strong while shaping. Shape the coils. Flatten the loops. The wire will fit into the housing of the alternator. However it could have just been a little smaller coil. This stator now needs ribbon tie and there is a method for that I use.
Coil bifilar start go around and at end attach to other set of bifilar at start. (Dual bifilar). This point is my center tap.
My belief on VIC when done, is another item to be attacked. This alternator is only one part of the coil system. The alternator voltage changes with RPM and the stator is used for the primary of other coils (more vics!). This may be hard to perceive but I have some other ideas for the so called resonant coils of Meyers.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 15, 2013, 20:17:29 pm
Yes,hard to understand,a paint drawing would be easier.How did you remove the coils off the pvc pipe?how they are rewind all clockwise?thanks!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 15, 2013, 21:55:52 pm
Yes,hard to understand,a paint drawing would be easier.How did you remove the coils off the pvc pipe?how they are rewind all clockwise?thanks!
Still 3 more pics.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 15, 2013, 22:18:36 pm
These coils fall right off the pvc. For example I used 2 turns per coil 12 coils, 4 wires per slot. Maybe you can see now with all these pic's. Photo 77 shows lead wire going out and the coil turns going left. The turns go up over, under over when I spread them out. This is how it goes into the stator core. Also this is exactly like the diagram in the alternator pdf from a while back.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 16, 2013, 00:57:50 am
I understand,you wind them all in one direction on the pipe and then when you removed the pipe you twisted them to become one clockwise one counterclockwise(like in att).The 2 loop coils you made just for demo no?the real stator was 4-filiar?Thanks very much for photos!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 16, 2013, 01:03:00 am
in your pic,the two loop ends overlap?if yes it is overlaping on the stator?or the leads join normaly?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 16, 2013, 01:08:18 am
Yes it all goes into the slot and at the end it does overlap. I made this coil just for you, to help explain as visual as I could. The stator I made is wound as described, 4 wire, 5 turn per coil, 12 coils per phase.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 16, 2013, 09:15:42 am
Thanks,for the demo.Still canot understand why your leads join so far from each other,mine join side by side into one slot ,the start wire,coil join with end coil into one slot.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 16, 2013, 15:38:27 pm
Thanks,for the demo.Still canot understand why your leads join so far from each other,mine join side by side into one slot ,the start wire,coil join with end coil into one slot.
This is a replication of what I saw in the pic of the Meyer alternator. I suppose the leads are spread apart so as to connect to the underlying board inside if used. Otherwise I like the separation if I route them out the casing.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 16, 2013, 19:14:40 pm
Thanks,so the wires stick like that just for ease of conection?Here is how i wound mine,the green phase is not totaly drawn to not overcrowd the drawing,and the last finish loop jumps 2slots not 3 like in the pic,because the slots were unclear and drawn wrong,hope you understand,cheers!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 17, 2013, 01:53:07 am
If you look at your drawing the final finish wire goes up 3 slots away and not in the same slot.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 17, 2013, 20:05:20 pm
i know it has to jump 2 slots,but i tould you already that the pic was unclear and at the end the last coils jumped 3 ,but in reality the last coil jumps 2 slots and meet with the first coils in one slot.Apart from this evrything was ok?if yes my start\finish wires does not look like yours..thanks!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 17, 2013, 20:11:19 pm
I see your drawing is okay. Like SI 10 alternator 42 slot 14 coils per phase. The little red line drawing underneath is showing correct. The 2 leads will finish 3 slots from each other and this is all good.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 17, 2013, 22:10:05 pm
Thanks,komtek,the pic is from the web a random one,not my real stator,mine is much smaller,12cm OD,36slots,12coils.You said the leads of windings are 3coils apart,can you edit my photo and draw a few lines?the leads of the phases are decalated between them (for ex.in my pic,my blue phase start in the next slot after the start of the red phase)so the blue phase should start after 3 slots?or the leads are simply draged trough to be 3 coils apart?see att.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 18, 2013, 01:43:48 am
Got mine ready, dipped and baked twice. Fits good in housing.
When you are ready and have made your coils, then install them just as planned. UP/OVER, DOWN UNDER until the end it should be much more easier than talking about it and drawing it out. Install one whole coil, then the next in the next slot over and then the third beside that one. First coil side goes in, miss 2 spaces then other side of coil, then next coil loop over that one. One phase coil complete before you do the next coil set.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 18, 2013, 11:39:27 am
Very nice,how did you manage to fit 20turns per coil in that tight space?how much turns was factory? Komtek believe me i rewound my stator 3 times,and did not output much(6v),many hours and nerves,winding each coil on a ''sandwich'' former,diasemble fix the coil beter,some 6 hours per phase,and another 2 for sliding them in that 2mm space,ruined wire from scratching etc...and in the end 6v..and thats why i'm bugging you with so much question and drawings,to not repeat the process and ruin so much wire.The drawing i made was how i wound mine and did not work,so your doing something something diferent...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 18, 2013, 12:23:13 pm
Hi Adys
So how much volts and amps do you put on the rotor? Maybe there is your problem?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 18, 2013, 13:47:25 pm
I used a pc-powersuply(5v-0.8A-at the rotor).This is not the problem,with a stock stator was producing 30v,with my stator only 6v.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 18, 2013, 20:27:31 pm
Very nice,how did you manage to fit 20turns per coil in that tight space?how much turns was factory? Komtek believe me i rewound my stator 3 times,and did not output much(6v),many hours and nerves,winding each coil on a ''sandwich'' former,diasemble fix the coil beter,some 6 hours per phase,and another 2 for sliding them in that 2mm space,ruined wire from scratching etc...and in the end 6v..and thats why i'm bugging you with so much question and drawings,to not repeat the process and ruin so much wire.The drawing i made was how i wound mine and did not work,so your doing something something diferent...
Factory on the few I took apart were always around 4 turns per coil #12 wire or 8 wires per slot. If the wires were real scratched and shorted turn to turn this will effect your output. If a wire got on the outside of the slot liner this will effect your output. If a wire was possibly touching the metal housing, this is not good. When wire is inserted in each slot it is done with much care, not to force any wire. In your fingertips you flatten the wire coil so it slides right into the slot. Actually many times I have flattened adjusted the wire and it goes into slot with one motion only.
You maybe can wait until I set up a test and we can see if my alternator works.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 18, 2013, 21:11:08 pm
The wire was not scrached when inserted(flatening the coil sides like you said),but when i get it out its a mess.The coils were not shorted,i measured the impedance,off and on the core,not touching the stator core either,i verified it. The only thing i dont understand is the leads position on the stator,i think thats where my problem is.its something to do with electrical degrees... 2mm wire on a stock one,8t per coil,thats plenty of space to play with.mine had 5t 18gauge... I dont say yours will not work,just that you'v done something with thouse lead coils positions on the stator...cheers
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 19, 2013, 20:33:19 pm
Ady, I was just thinking about the direction of flow. When I insert my coils the lead coil first installed in the method I use is actually the negative lead. When all is wrapped and done then I apply direction of movement to finish my external wiring/flow circuit.
If the leads face to the back of the alternator, the front of the alternatot rotates right. The first lead away from you and wrapped to the right is first phase positive lead in the alternator housing.
Here's something funny that I made gas with the alternator also. I fed one winding/phase into the next phase and into the next phase all in series and used 1 diode I think maybe 2? and made gas. nothing overheated that I could tell. Didn't think it would work but it did.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 19, 2013, 21:00:21 pm
Hardly understand about leads...i am not american,so....could you make a drawing with leads positions please?Direction of Rotation of the rotor meater?thanks!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 20, 2013, 01:52:02 am
Hardly understand about leads...i am not american,so....could you make a drawing with leads positions please?Direction of Rotation of the rotor meater?thanks!
Wire leads! Start and finish. Whats the direction of your motor spinning your alternator rotor?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 20, 2013, 11:52:23 am
left
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 20, 2013, 15:22:58 pm
Looking to/at the front of motor, your motor spins left. Is that counter-clockwise or clockwise?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 20, 2013, 18:40:16 pm
looking at the motor,it spins left,ccw.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 30, 2013, 08:57:55 am
Hy komtek,have you tested the stator yet?can you tell how did you arange the phases?i cannot find this info nowere,i searched all internet,even patents...for weeks i'm stuck with the build.please help me with a drawing or something...cheers!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 01, 2013, 04:41:47 am
Ady, Don't know what else to say. We have covered everything. All the information is posted. There is something you are not confident of. All I can think of you have not laid out your foundation.
How many poles on your rotor? How many slots on your stator? Direction of spin? Removal of regulator circuitry, was this done correct? It is so simple, but unless you do it a person may not realize this.
I wound a couple stators and did not have the coils all the way around and it works like some of Kevin Wests early stuff. Connected coils in funky ways that should not work and always had output. A person could mess up and have output on these small alternators.
Alternators come with many different coil windings to try to make voltage at lower spin frequencys. Forget about any of these type windings and stick to the basic coil. Even if your alternator or motor spins reverse, it should still work. The voltage will come out. Maybe you should play with your diode bridge and get that connected right. To make it real easy forget about a bridge and just install 1 diode per phase and get the positive voltage signal, then mark your + -.
Your alternator may want more magnetic field, crank up the voltage on the rotor. It should be #18 wire or so. You can apply several amperes current to it.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 01, 2013, 12:01:09 pm
How many poles on your rotor? How many slots on your stator?=36 Direction of spin?=left Removal of regulator circuitry, was this done correct?=it had an external regulator.
Komtek,first of all i know how an alt works and with the stock stator works fine,so no brush problem.Secound its not that simple because of the phases shift between them 120 degree out of phase,winding and placing the coils on the stator i know and did it 10'ns of times.but the relationship between phases i dont know,that must be done corectly or else it will not work ever. i post a pic with my stock stator and with the part i dont understand.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 01, 2013, 21:00:18 pm
All early posts and pictures of the so-called stan alternator have the leads go in and come out 1 slot apart. This is what I do on every wind that I have done. Have never wound like yours, so I do not know what will happen. You would think it would work. So if you do not wind the lead wire and coil phase by slot/slot/slot can't tell you of any differences.
Also you have not stated poles on rotor? I would assume 6 plus 6 minus.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 01, 2013, 23:00:12 pm
yes 6+ 6-
in that picture its factory wound not by me
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 08, 2013, 14:35:19 pm
This forum is dead?no one can tell me how the phases are aranged?
Komtek i wanna ask you something.What's hapenens when you put a load on the alt?the rotor draws more amps?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 08, 2013, 18:40:46 pm
This forum is dead?no one can tell me how the phases are aranged?
Komtek i wanna ask you something.What's hapenens when you put a load on the alt?the rotor draws more amps?
Put your load on the alternator, then adjust strength of rotor magnetic field. Attach load. Its easiest to control rotor with DC 0-12 volt just to get the feel. Without power to rotor there is no power to load. Rotor draws more amps to power its magnetic field, as you adjust the voltage to it.
I have written many times how to arrange the phases. Simple KISS 1 2 3 it works.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 08, 2013, 21:08:01 pm
Steve except 1 link i viewed all a cople of weeks ago,no such info about phases arangement,believe me i searched all internet. komtek you told me allright but is ambigous,its like explaning to a doctor how a gearbox works...you can easyly draw a vertical line in paint on my drawing,1picture=1000words...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 08, 2013, 23:16:29 pm
Rotor draws more amps to power its magnetic field, as you adjust the voltage to it.
but if you leave the rotor voltage\curent fixed what happens when you put a bigger load?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 09, 2013, 01:26:31 am
Rotor draws more amps to power its magnetic field, as you adjust the voltage to it.
but if you leave the rotor voltage\curent fixed what happens when you put a bigger load?
If I have a load and adjust my rotor voltage to the load and then add more load what do you think will happen? ::) You better start with a good size motor driving your alternator. All you need to do is experiment and start to figure these practical tests yourself. A person works within the means of the setup he has built. The equipment has boundaries.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 09, 2013, 09:55:40 am
I am talking about fixed power on the rotor,change just the load....i experiment a lot,with alternators,but i need a confirmation about what i saw,and i want to know if the stator coils burn up if you dont ''help'' them with amps to the rotor,when the load is increased.About my drawing can you draw a line on the slot where the start wire on the blue phase would be?thanks
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 09, 2013, 09:58:12 am
but if you leave the rotor voltage\curent fixed what happens when you put a bigger load? [/quote]
If I have a load and adjust my rotor voltage to the load and then add more load what do you think will happen? ::) ...you will slow down the drive motor because of the drag of mag field...killed the motor a few times..i know
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 09, 2013, 15:22:35 pm
More load more current. Also this will depend on a series or parallel configuration. Parallel more current, series current will go down and the rotor voltage will need more voltage to power the larger load.
Will draw you some lines later when I get home tonight.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 09, 2013, 19:32:20 pm
I agree more load more curent but where at the stator or rotor,when you put a biger load the rotor will draw more curent? Thanks looking forward for the drawing:x
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 09, 2013, 20:11:27 pm
Not at the rotor. The rotor creates the magnetic field of the size you choose by voltage/current (dc electro-magnet). Also with the bigger load on stator you can re-adjust the rotor voltage to compensate for load.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 09, 2013, 22:39:07 pm
Yes not at the rotor,thats what i noticed,too,if the load is increased the rotor does not pull more amps,like a transformer
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 10, 2013, 01:38:14 am
That's because you are creating electricity not transforming it. Remember this fundamental theory. Conductor Magnetic field Relative motion. With these 3 items you can create electrical potential.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 10, 2013, 01:52:54 am
ok,i understand.Did you have time for the drawing?cheers
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 10, 2013, 02:57:13 am
Hello just to clear things,
Creating energy is not the correct translation, actually you are transforming mechanical energy into electric energy. Using a rotating electromagnet.
Do you know what the current flow will be if you short your the generator?
Z=sqrt(Rˆ2+XLˆ2)
I=V/Z
did you know that?
This mean the greater the speed, the greater is the frequency thus the higher is the voltage but if you could short it again the current is still the same since the relation between induced emf and reactance remains constant. Or power is not related to the speed but only to the magnetic field and coils sizes. So if you want low current high voltage you need lower magnetic field and higher speed. This is AKA amp restricted generator device.
A transformer works differently, you input a voltage and the current rise and fall result in induced voltage. However the induced voltage won't change with frequency.
I constructed by indication of UFO member from energetic forum, couple of years ago a tesla DC motor or generator that never revert the magnetic field on the rotor. Although it seems pretty good idea is yet more interesting since it seems to not develop the back emf so lot of current flows unimpeded, it seems that there is no reactance part, or at least it can be very small.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 10, 2013, 06:46:21 am
great explained,Sebosfato.
that is the key of Stan's alternator version WFC.higher speed and higher inductance.make voltage to takeover and restrict amps flow.
but i did't clear about low magnatic field???this for???low inductance???
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 10, 2013, 11:42:17 am
Thanks seb,i dont know formulas,but from what i read when you short the output it creates some balance and didnt burn up.i saw people welding with alternators.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 10, 2013, 14:06:37 pm
that is the key of Stan's alternator version WFC.higher speed and higher inductance.make voltage to takeover and restrict amps flow.
but i did't clear about low magnatic field???this for???low inductance???
The lower is the magnetic field the greater must be the speed to have greater voltage thus frequency output (greater impedance) this mean also lower mechanic power drag thus lower power density output.
Your welcome adys, i'm just trying to pass to you some of my experience with generators that i had about the difficulty of working with permanent magnets and generate the desired output voltage current.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2013, 02:02:08 am
This is very straight forward. Start finish, all 1 slot from each other.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2013, 11:08:48 am
Thanks komtek!You said 1slot away from each over but i dont see the jumped slot,you draw it all one after another.I see 2 slots between start and finish.whats the winding direction of the first coil of one phase,and whats the layout direction of the coils? check out this drawing and tell me if its ok
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2013, 15:10:01 pm
Everything is the same. 1 slot start finish all same direction, just like you drew it. Except you'll see either the start coil or finish of the coil will fold out to meet the end of the coil in a slot. I use the start coil to fold out. Put a coil in the slots and see as you can still easily pull the coil out if you did not like something.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 11, 2013, 22:05:24 pm
So my lower drawing is corect,but my drawing has 1 slot left between start leads of the phases yours dont.the layout direction is ok?,left?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 17, 2013, 20:48:30 pm
Nice work Komtek :)
adys15, did you see some of the pictures and diagrams earlier in the thread of my build? are you trying to do something different or just need more details on how that is wound?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 17, 2013, 20:55:21 pm
Hy Donald,long time no see,keep in there,i will answer in an hour or so...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 17, 2013, 23:17:58 pm
Donald,i read every page of this forum multiple times not just once,mostly your comments,outlaw's,komtek,Don's...trying to figure out how an alternator works and why Stan used an alt instead of the rotary inverter or other source.I learned o lot from you and others but I dont fully understood then how a stock one is wound.Now i know mainly how is wound but there are other ways of winding the coils. First i tried to wind a stock one to get a hang of it.I wound it all coils clockwise(i saw electro using that style),and did not worked,then one cw one ccw...also did not work ,spending a lot of time making jigs for coils....etc.In the end i used komtek advice and wind it on a pipe but when i put the coil in the coils looked oval....and were to big,,,then i used a split piece of wood that was exactly the dim i need,,,then i made a trifiliar stator and conected the coils like in Stan's drawing and your skematic in the first posts.I made 4 turns per coil trifiliar,tested but not something spectacular happend with having the chokes,they acted like simple coils in series.and the coltage was around 60v Donald your stator was a motorcraft almost like Stan's no??Can you give some specs on the dimensions of the stator,slot dimension.diameter....stock wire gauge used...number of turns...and what hapened to those 300v of your r-vic when you conect it to your cell???? Komtek gave me a book about alt but i want more info....do you have books about alternators? Hope we will see you more often here....cheers!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 17, 2013, 23:19:55 pm
Here is my work in progress on my r-vic just 2 phases wound in this pic(sory for poor quality)
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 19, 2013, 13:52:28 pm
Hy guys made some tests yesterday with smaller wire gauge then stock,0.5mm and the results were as aspected,I got a MASSIVE voltage drop on the same tube as tested with stock alt. Donalt i found out what i was asking you...
-stock alt 25v at 6A tap water(40v no load) - 0.5mm wire stator 6v at 3A(50v no load)tap water
rain water -stock alt=37v at 0.8A -- 0.5mm wire stator 30v 0.6A
More voltage less amps on rain but production was almost half then tap water The tube was 30cm long,but tried with 20cm long tube and got less amp draw on tap 4A....so larger surface area does not mean more resistance.....i was surprised...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 20, 2013, 05:43:24 am
The way I learned to wind the alternator is shown here... I selected some key pictures from back in the thread.
In the first one you can see the drawing that shows how the wire is wound, it goes, say, clockwise, then counter-clockwise, then clockwise, and keeps switching back and forth, and if you look closely at the wire you can see it does this.
Then notice on the winding jig how I used twist ties to tie the wire up in pairs, you can not see the back side, but the wires are tied up on the back too.
Then when you pull this off the jig the wires are tied up in a nice string of loops.
This string of loops is fed into the stator... requires about 3 hands, or like i did... two hands and a forehead.
It sounds like you have a lot of experience winding things up, did you do it in a different pattern?
As soon as I wired mine up it didn't work, it took me a while to figure out that all 3 phase machines need one phase to be connected backwards for the magnetic field lines to line up properly. If you didn't do this, then just take the two ends of one phase and reverse the connections. Then it worked for me.
I still have videos up on youtube of the RVIC tests that I did.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 20, 2013, 12:51:59 pm
Thanks Donald I know how you made yours from past posts,but i dont know how you aranged the start wires of the other phases are positioned from each other.Interesting ideea of the phases ,i tried end leads wired together,start wires to diodes,and backwards and outputs the same...so you are saying :phase 1and 2 finish leads tied together and the start lead tied to the finishes of the phases 1&2.? One point i want to make,that doubleing the wire wraps will not give you double voltage out mine gave out a quarter more than stock with double the wire than stock....So it's must be something else that gives out more volts,we need the voltage of one coil adding up to the next....if you look at Stan's stator you will see a wire bridge between the coils,i tried that and didn't output nothing,not AC no DC.So there must be a secret in winding style,that's why i search more info about alt.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 20, 2013, 16:02:32 pm
Phases never connect to each other unless you use the isolation diodes, which you should, unless you send each phase to it's own individual tube, which I also tried.
Otherwise they will short out to each other and not do what you want them too... try playing with that on a simulator.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 20, 2013, 16:13:16 pm
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 20, 2013, 23:28:33 pm
Thanks,normal ford alternator,but its not big case?42 slots? btw you yt chanel is private,tried fo numerous times to access it...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 21, 2013, 00:43:34 am
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 21, 2013, 01:04:45 am
Thanks,100v on those tubes in series?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 24, 2013, 02:01:14 am
tried the phases leads reverse ,nothing!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 13, 2013, 12:11:22 pm
No one is working on this anymore?Komtek whats your voltage coming out of your rewound stator?have you tried it?thanks! Btw i figured how Stan wound his alt.,tried it but it didnt work....it was either wired wrong on purpose or it is not his stator...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 16, 2013, 23:48:29 pm
No one is working on this anymore?Komtek whats your voltage coming out of your rewound stator?have you tried it?thanks! Btw i figured how Stan wound his alt.,tried it but it didnt work....it was either wired wrong on purpose or it is not his stator...
Hi Adys,
What do you expect how the alternator should work? I know for sure that the alternator setup was a high amp pump for a tube cell configuration. Nothing else. Nothing to do with low amps and high voltage. My close friend held.his hands on the cables during.his visit at Stans place.... Hot. Hot.hot.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 17, 2013, 00:16:50 am
Steve,i was refering to the rvic not the demo one,at 40A of course it was hot
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 18, 2013, 01:51:12 am
Three Phase Direct Current has a Wild leg on Wye Configuration and does not on Delta. I witnessed Resonance on a Delta Configeration between the Tube cell and the Delta Alternator at a tuned in frequency of around 1k hertz applied at the alternators stator where the Fqa30N40 acted as a current limiting device and amplifier to the stater where the outputted voltage to the cell was around 20v give or take the current being massive 30 to 50 amps to the best of my knowledge.
When the Cell is Custum Built as in a variable Gap that can be controlled the closer the gap the lower the voltage and higher the current flow. There is a desired voltage for a 1.5mm gap and 6 inch tubes, thats why it is important to use the pwm at the stator to tune in. There will result no enormous amount of gas just a reduced current flow at the driver moter when a resonance accures. Ther needs to be a capacitor in parallell with the cell being tested.
The setup is not worth the research as I've already done it with stevo, However, at a commercial rate with a large cell Commercial 3 phase is a cure for the hydrogen problem. There are many types of water on earth and between me and you our water varies tremendously which what the tuners job does on a higher respected circuit. Water itself is not conductive thats where scientist are now looking. Take for example a cool sunny morning just before winter just after a light rain, you can see the fog of the water being evaporated by the frequency being applied by the sun itself. Can you tap into that and replicate that? if so you just vaporized water, just as the vaporized uses a frequency on youtube. Still, the bonds in that matter was not effected, no spark ignites the sky. Water as a fuel is a type of steam with no Flame point, or no Combustible Point. Contamination of hydrogen will cause the watergas to have a combustible temperature as before it didn't have one. Watergas as a fuel is synthetic, havent you watched my video to see it burn at a rate slower than that of propane. Username on youtube TheBrianCoats
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 18, 2013, 12:01:00 pm
Hy Brian,you reached resonance with only 20v at the cell?i also pulsed the rotor but the freq seems just to control the curent,lower freq less curent,higher freq more curent is flowing to the rotor.You said you and Steve replicated the alt setup Its a thread here?,but did u use stan's stator with 18leads and windind config? //off//Brian could you post a schematic of this
thanks!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2013, 01:07:41 am
The video you posted is not of any value and has nothing to do with the alternator, its a dave lawton circuit with a minor flaw fixed. It still performs the same it just doesn't burn up as the lawton circuit will. The core as mentioned prior on this forum and lost sent to dynodon now is the heart of this system not shown in this video, that core was about 1 inch in diameter. The core can "allow" a frequency the warm the copper coil in a way the copper will begin to melt in the MA range with very little power usage on the primary. The core was never identified which is why I sent it out to others to sample the material which never got sampled, the core is lost.
There are many ways to research this type of work, So far I have a few pdf's out on this forum under this name and it explains much about the meyer incident. The photo that shown meyer generating 3 phase electrical current onboard the buggy got vaporized from the internet, you will not find it.
Water can be vaporized at very little power, but the bond is oppissites attract and alikes repel, one day it will be possible to do what you're searching for, it will take someone like you to figure it out. Once it is figured out and unlocked, it will then be explained like that of a Heat Pump.
Dont wast your time on the alternator, Fuel cells are in love with 3 phase direct current, if you're using single phase direct current your wasting your time.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2013, 01:59:54 am
Thanks Brian,i said ''offtopic'' when i asked about your video.What picture is about?it has been on the forum?I know he had that rediline inverter ,drivemotor,alternator...
''Dont wast your time on the alternator, Fuel cells are in love with 3 phase direct current, if you're using single phase direct current your wasting your time'' is that not contradictory?
Brian...for 3 years i'v build anything that could be built in terms of vic's cells..etc...and the bigest problem with stans resonant cells is that no mater how high the vōltage the vic outputs,when the tubeset is conected you end up with 10v no mater the frq...if you put multiple cells in series the voltage raises a bit but then production in very small...so i think this sistem is idiotic...even stan had problems with 1tubeset and hook them in series...so no real production... The alt.seems to do more ''work'' but hard to get the voltage up because the small coils,cramped space,etc... I'v already sayd that i figured his winding style,tested it but didnt work... Can you detail a bit the resonance with alternator that you talked bout? Thanks!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 02, 2013, 00:09:42 am
Stan used a 12v to 220v rotary converter to feed a single phase to 3 phase phase converter with a married fuel cell that operated at larger current and no lye. At resonance harmonics lessened the load on the oem alternator cutomized on the buggy. I recommend finding my pdf here for download.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 02, 2013, 20:18:45 pm
Thanks Brian!i know how it was hooked up,bat>inverter>motor>alternator>cell So he just restricted the amps to the cell...Which pdf?the one with a pulsed rotor with 555?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2013, 01:49:00 am
No. Theres no restriction of amps. Watergas is synthetic and acheived at sjperheafed temperatures. Hydrogen contamination of this steam gas confirms synthetic. See my videos youtube name thebriancoats.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2013, 01:56:05 am
The alfernator is a toy in your above post. Stan used a factory. High current alternator to power the 12v to 220v rotary converter today we use converfers with no moving parts connected to the oem algernator. The phase converter can be digital like stan later hid or rotary where it is the better choice. The alternater is a distraction but the point makes its way. My pdf is here. I cant find it on a 3 " phone.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2013, 11:18:08 am
Brian,if he was using the inverter to power the cell,who powered the drive motor of the alternator?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2013, 17:56:25 pm
The phase coverter powered the plates. Yhe rotary inverter powered the phase converter to gain a third leg. The oem alternator powered the entire system. There was resonance in that system protecting the alternator. Hydrogen was produced at a commercial rate on board that bug. The pwm and alternator presented is the great ideal for ahow n tail and was capable of a synthetic gas at a mim rate to display bug not revealing the maximum rate sys where petrol fumes was not used unlike the shown. Study phase con erter and build u one. U will be closer. This system is like a heat pump that drws energy from somewhere else just as the heat pump gains heat from 5 degree temperature to heat the home. The fuel cell resonates with the phase converter which feeds from the voltage inverter which feeds from the high current alternator.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2013, 21:22:01 pm
oh man my head hurts,can you make a quik drawing of component interaction? Starting to get it....you are refering at the drive motor as a ''rotary phase converter'' which generate 3phase 110v AC,then rectified and conected to cell, but also rotate the alternator which charged the batery. But why convert 1 phase to 3phase?i understand 3 phase is more eficient than singe phase...
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2013, 23:38:00 pm
What do you expect how the alternator should work? I know for sure that the alternator setup was a high amp pump for a tube cell configuration. Nothing else. Nothing to do with low amps and high voltage. My close friend held.his hands on the cables during.his visit at Stans place.... Hot. Hot.hot.
Your friend wasn't lying.
People just cant get it thru their heads that there is the CAPABILITY of current in the alternator, however it does not produce current. The load produces current. Your load is the chokes, not the water.
He used the alternator because he could change the frequency of the pulses to the resonant frequency of the cell, which resonates the chokes which shuts off the scr. Unlike using a variac where the frequency is locked in at 120hz.
Get it to not see the load. It is all timing, the parts you use and where you put them.
Yes, it can switch that fast. It wont heat up much if your using 24" cells like he did. He had all the cells hooked together, Add up the gap distances and surface area and that is max voltage input. In that configuration the cell will not heat unless it is run for hours at max voltage. Then you have to get rid of electrons.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2013, 23:51:12 pm
Hardchrome,the chokes are inside the alternator,no scr here
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2013, 00:01:32 am
That's why you cant figure it out.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2013, 00:05:18 am
You figured out the alternator?tell me how it was wound?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2013, 06:24:42 am
Maybe this will help you with the Rotary Pulse Generator....You should already have these images though.
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2013, 10:35:40 am
Thanks Tony,yes i have them from globalkast.If you watch the estate photos the chokes are on the stator,to get the same magnetic coupling as the secoundary.As I stated before i know the winding style but did not work.Anyone can figure it out,just watch the start\finish leads coming out,but you have to wind a dummy stator to get the hang of it,if you'r just looking at the pictures,seems complicated....
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 07, 2013, 10:45:16 am
Here is an image of part of the accelerator control showing voltage to the windings Apparently the accelerator control change voltages to the alterntor or alternator windings?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 07, 2013, 11:33:14 am
Wow,thanks,Jim,yes its the rotor voltage control level,that tells me that the rotor was not pulsed,and proves that an alternator was used and NOT a 3phase motor...Looking forward for more teasers:d
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 07, 2013, 12:03:56 pm
Maybe this will help you with the Rotary Pulse Generator....You should already have these images though.
I cannot remember these pictures…. Nice!
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 07, 2013, 12:20:35 pm
I am not sure about pulsing aspect because you could have a pulsed or chopped variable voltage. I will have to check to see how far along the transcripts are coming, As I recall the process has the redline generator being switched on first (but this start must have come from a battery), then that starts an electric motor which then turns the deregulated alternator. Stan made the comment to change the voltage you could change the drive pulley size. The redline was very loud Stan also makes a comment about dual or two controls going to the excitor array The large control box that sits behind the seat has a variac and other controls as well as the abilty to switch off part of the cell to control gas production ( the vertical row of toggle switches)
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 07, 2013, 21:42:01 pm
Thanks Jim,i know how the sistem is hooked,he ever shows the inside of the big box?
Title: Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 02, 2014, 03:47:55 am
No one is working on this anymore?Komtek whats your voltage coming out of your rewound stator?have you tried it?thanks! Btw i figured how Stan wound his alt.,tried it but it didnt work....it was either wired wrong on purpose or it is not his stator...
adys15, sorry I have not worked on this for a long time. The rewind I did has 150vdc peak to peak, also this depends on how much voltage and speed applied to the rotor. However I am only watching current to rotor and have tried 0.25 to 3 ampere. Changed pulley sizes to spin the rotor at about 6500 rpm or so. This also depends on the way the tubes are connected. I have 7 sets of triple tubes. Connected in series I can attain the higher voltage. There are actually 14 gaps or neutrals. Connected in parallel the voltage won't get so high and wants to draw high current.
I have 18vac and 0.5vdc across the amp inhibiting coil 617, seems strange for right now. Checked all diodes in the system and they are good. This load at 150vdc p-p runs at 2 amperes across the tubes and 1 ampere across the rotor. A reasonable amount of gas is produced but it does not seem like anything extraordinary. However getting this voltage high and keeping the current low is making me think about trying to raise the voltage higher.