Author Topic: New VIC pictures discussion!!!  (Read 42398 times)

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Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
« Reply #80 on: February 18, 2009, 15:23:16 pm »
I looked up the resistive wire wiki, now the 60 ohm per cm makes sense, it should have been written as ohm-cm (as a product, like newton-meter) not ohm/cm. (still have to verify tho).
Much appreciated, since I'm sure you're repeating yourself.

In eqn 19, Z should be a 2, don't you think?
Similar to the energy in a cap ( C * V^2 / 2)
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 16:39:10 pm by Alan »

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Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
« Reply #81 on: February 18, 2009, 19:25:31 pm »
well see stan uses the same variables throughout the entire tech brief......so if we were pumping in 40,000 volts at .001 amps which was converted from 12 volts at 3.3 amps (as stated in the tech brief) and our resistance was around 11,600 our Z would equal 12121.21ohms......now i don't know which current I to use.....the initial applied to the system (3.3amps) or the converted I inside the system (.001 amps)......then when he says watts per second or JOULES....i am not sure what to put here??.....i know we are using 40 watts of power total....but as for time i am completely lost.......i am trying to find what L should be equal to in order to obtain the proper amount of resistance to power.....

he seriously wrote this as if he wanted this techonlogy to be released he is telling us all the answers right here.....even though he even made a key or legend for his variables i kind of wish he was a little more specific about current.....if it was input current or converted current........cause right now if we are using 40 watts a second and an input of 3.3 amps with our Z impedance to accomplish 40,000 i am getting an inductance of 44,522.4 HENRIES.....which is rather impossible......

so anyone out there that might actually know what they're doing and could clear this up a little would be lovely.

oh and one more thing......why do we have to wind the vic in 14 different sections? what is the purpose of the sections.......once this is answered i will begin winding.

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Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
« Reply #82 on: February 18, 2009, 20:24:57 pm »
If the Z is a 2, then plugging in 40 watt and .001 amp, L would result in 80000000 H lol
And again Z = 2, I =  3.3A, this gives L = 7.346H

Don't forget the reactance of Z is frequency dependent resistance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_impedance

If you do calculations on the primary side of the transformer, use 3.3 A.
.001 A should be used on the secondary side (secondary spool + chokes ).

And btw, maybe obvious to you all, but I didn't see it before like this
3.3A is the result of the .001A requirement in the secondary. Without amp inhibiting, .001 rises, and so will 3.3.
.001 is used only for storing energy in the sec. coil + chokes which forms 40kV.
And 40000 x .001 = 12 x 3.3

watt = joules PER second
watt-second = joule

14 sections, because you don't want to wind the chokes in both directions, like the primary, but why is the secondary wound similar?
Maybe someone else can explain it better.

Hope this is of some use.
Pls correct what seems incorrect.

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Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
« Reply #83 on: February 18, 2009, 23:02:44 pm »
when i said stan used the same variables throughout the tech brief it was to decrease confusion such as Vt which means total voltage on the system. and Vc voltage in the capacitor and Vl voltage on the inductor.......Z was constant......so once you figured out what Z was from the equation stan gave for conversion factors was Z equals Vt (total voltage) over amperage.......now if we want 40,000 volts to be our total voltage and start with an input current of 3.3 amps at 12 volts.....we will need an impedance factor of 12121.21 Ohms which is our Z........so to achieve 40,000 volts from a 40 watt power source we need a minimum of Z = 12121.21 ohms.......remeber the equation....

(http://www.intmath.com/Complex-numbers/Image2.gif)

this is why stan also said that inductance must be larger than capacitance.....which had everyone thinking "you can't compare henries to farads!!!".....but he meant the reactance of inducatance and the reactance of capacitance...

alright.....so about 6 minutes later after stating the Z =12121.21 ohms for eq 19 i am not sure that the entire Z should be applied......hmmmm......i dont really know at this point BUT ....this equation on inductance reactance is by far THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF INFORMATION in order to get your inductor to put out an equal second pulse and push voltage beyond applied voltage....i am going to look over this section again and again with new eyes....the electron inhibiting effect.


EDIT:
and the amperage coming out of the secondary coil will not be .001 amps......it will be something around theoretically (i dont have time to actually figure it out) .2 or .1 amps......then when it goes through the chokes it will be suppressed to .001 and sent into hte water cell...before you were saying that the seconday would be giving off .001 into the chokes.....but look at stans patent where he tells you how to make a vic on 2 seperate cores he says how many turns of wire to be used for the toroidal core on the primary and secondary and when you do the math it will take a 12 volt 50 percent duty cycle (6 volts) at 3.3 amps and turn it into something like 40-50 votls at .5 amps or less if you include resistance due to wire gauge.....still .5 amps is not .001 amps.......001 will never come out of the secondary only the chokes, or else that would defeat the purpose of the inductors all together.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 23:30:28 pm by kinesisfilms »

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Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
« Reply #84 on: February 18, 2009, 23:21:20 pm »

this is why stan also said that inductance must be larger than capacitance.....which had everyone thinking "you can't compare henries to farads!!!".....but he meant the reactance of inducatance and the reactance of capacitance...


I agree on that statement, Kinesis!

br
Steve

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Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
« Reply #85 on: February 18, 2009, 23:47:30 pm »
hey! i think i got what is going on in the equation.....mathematically amperage does head as close to zero as possible....but of course that is not going to happen.......basically what we need to know is joules to eV (electron volt) conversion....simple internet thing.....then take that electron volt and divide it by the charge of an electron (1.6e -19 or 1.6 x 10^ -19) which will leave you with the voltage it has stored (energy really).......which theoretically wants to be incredibly high say like 79kv......but of course will not be due to physical constraints of electronics.......so this is good really good.....Z is in fact 12121.21......inductance will be what ever we measure from and inductance meter or from calculating with the "L=" equation provided by stan....i used the VL equation (eq 6 memo wfc 420) to determine my voltage than converted it to eV than to joules and worked it into equation 19.......everything does add up.......

IF I AM WRONG PLEASE CORRECT ME IF YOU NOTICE ANYTHING......always appreciated.

this is looking good!

but once again i am finding no reason of creating seperate sections for the bifilar chokes...please someone state your justifications on this....i have read what you have wrote alan but that does not seem right since we are to wind the chokes bifilar with both chookes being in each of the sections......this is why stan talks about the coating on the wires actually acting like a dielectric material....this tells us that the wires are together......so i honestly feel that the 14 different sections or so are not necessary.......

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Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
« Reply #86 on: February 19, 2009, 02:12:42 am »
see what do you mean spark over??? if it would spark over without sections then it would clearly melt through the coating and then spark right over to the negative choke (since it's bifilar) inside the first section shorting it out...so what's the difference.....so that understanding can't be right......remember static electricity will not "spark" over 11.6kohms......i'll search the tech brief for a reasoning on this......but i still await another answer or maybe im wrong in my thinking....but either way kreep the reasons coming.....i think it might have to do with the inductance from the inner bobbin to the bifilar chokes bobbin...maybe it spreads the magnetic field out more evenly....i dont know and that sounds like a really bad guess......i am still building this on my 2 seperate cores.......but before i go winding the bifilar chokes with the wire i need to clear everything up.

thank you for your response donald

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Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
« Reply #87 on: February 19, 2009, 06:12:51 am »

but once again i am finding no reason of creating seperate sections for the bifilar chokes...please someone state your justifications on this....i have read what you have wrote alan but that does not seem right since we are to wind the chokes bifilar with both chookes being in each of the sections......this is why stan talks about the coating on the wires actually acting like a dielectric material....this tells us that the wires are together......so i honestly feel that the 14 different sections or so are not necessary.......

Kines,

This is from the brief without all the References notes

Inductor (614) and Inductor (615) is wound or coil-wrapped in such a manner as to increase the magnetic flux intensity between the turns of coil-wrap. The circular-spiral turns of wire is separated by an Insulated Dielectric Coating Material which forms a series of capacitors when magnetic flux-lines produces Electromagnetic Coupling Field during pulse on-time. The series resistance value is determined by ~e composition of the wire material in terms of its ohmic value per given length and diameter cross-section: Resonant Charging Chokes 430F/FR 36 AWG (.006) stainless steel (s/s) wire equals 60 micro ohms per centimeter; Primary Coil 22 AWG (.028) copper wire equals 5.1933 ohms per pound weight; Secondary Pickup Coil (623) 35 AWG (.007) copper wire equals 13K ohms per pound weight. "Pyre-ML" trade name "Himol" polymer coating-material is used to impart thermal and mechanical resistance to the stainless steel (s/s) wire coating; both magnet wire sizes uses solderable Nysol (Polyurethane Nylon Jacket) insulation enamel coating as a electrical shield-material ... all dielectric coatings having an effective 3KV per mil dielectric value and formulated specifically to endure automotive temperature range from _ 40C  to 155C.

Inductance Reactance occurs when resistance, capacitance , and Inductance interacts together during D.C. Pulsing. Inductance Reactance not only increases voltage across water-capacitor  beyond applied Voltage Potential but, also, establishes "Impedance Field" across Inductors  which acts and performs as Resonant Charging Chokes once placed on opposite side of capacitor forming Resonant voltage Effect Circuit. Both Inductors are Bifilar wound in equal length to optimize the electromagnetic field strength in equal electromagnetic intensity to encourage and promote "Electron Bounce" phenomenon while adjusting input signal Pulse-Frequency to "tune-in" to the "dielectric property" of water causing amp flow to be reduce to a minimum value while allowing voltage potential to go toward infinity if the electronic components would allow it to happen. Inductance Field performs "Capacitance Charging Effect" , while, at the same time, Inductor Field restricts electron movement through VIC Impedance Network Circuit since Inductance Field locks onto Electrons Magnetic Field to block the movement of electron flow toward Positive Voltage Potential thereby preventing and inhibiting electronflow to pass through or arc-over capacitor water-gap such electron blocking action is herein called "Electron Inhibiting Effect'". At elevated.or higher amplitude voltage levels, primary electromagnetic coupling field transmitted by way of Inductance Pulsing-Core as to VIC Coil Assembly enters into and passes through both Inductors  simultaneously and offers not only further electron-flow restriction to both Inductor Chokes but automatically increases voltage potential of opposite voltage intensity of equal magnitude across Resonant Cavity overcoming any potential loss of pulse signal due to resistive interaction of either or both Inductor Cores wire-material to the formation of Inductance Fields during reoccurring pulse on-time. Electron Inhibiting Effect in direct relationship to Voltage Enhancement Effect is accomplished since stainless steel 430F/FR wire-material is "Electromagnetic Inductive" to incoming electromagneticflux-lines (without (s/s) inductor-wire-coil becoming permanently magnetized ... paralleling and performing the same electromagnetic characteristic of copper wire when it comes to magnetic field reformation that encourages, brings-on, and perform Voltage Inducement Process without amp "influxing"  between Positive Voltage Potential and Negative Voltage Potential electtically applied across Resonant Cavities. In-Line Circuit Components Lengthening Inductor lengths applies an even higher Voltage Potential across Resonant Capacitor since Inductance Reactance "Stores" Energy
Inductance Reactance directly determines "Stored" Energy  Which is controlled by
input Voltage Potential attenuated or varied by way of Voltage Amplitude and/or Gated Pulse-Frequency or both.

There is an inductance coupling between each resonant cavity of the resonant coils (14) of this coil assy that require them to be seperate sections.