### Author Topic: New VIC pictures discussion!!!  (Read 42396 times)

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##### Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2009, 06:41:20 am »
alright so once again from the data given to me your saying that the primary has 382 wraps and the secondary has 3822 wraps (273x14)...that means with an input of 12 volts at 3.3 amps are applied on the primary then 120 volts at .33amps will be the ouput on the secondary.....

also the inductance calculated from stanley meyers equation is L =  .909 henries.....which is 909 millihenries......now Chaddoken got 43mH for his coil and core when he calculated it with the standard equation.....i have not a clue about permeability factors.....all my cores are random cores purchased of ebays and surplus stores...so i purchased an inductance meter to take care of that......now using stans equation this vic coil with the factors given is once again .909 henries......this is not correct when the values are applied.....SO I REALLY NEED CLEAR CLARIFICATION.....and i think knowing the resistance for the primary and secondary coils would also be a great help in working these bugs out....the only way .909 henries would work is if we applied 1.216 khz frequency to achieve the 40,000 volts but then are capacitance is rediculously small........and at .043 henries we can apply a frequency of 25.7khz which is a much better choice in frequency but our capacitor is even smaller!....so once again i would like the resistance values for the secondary and primary.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/freqrange.jpg)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2009, 07:16:00 am by kinesisfilms »

• Hero member
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##### Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2009, 08:33:59 am »
i need a vote on what should be considered the "amount of turns" being either all the coils windings just the chokes or all the coils and just one of the chokes.....i ahve done the math to get the size of the vic and if we can get our inductance in the right area we are looking at a vic between 3-5 inches which sounds correct.....oh and on my test page where i was just showing how to do calculations if you use my C that i calculated at 10khz frequency and pop it into meyers capacitance equation it gives you a linear vic of length 4.5 inches......(typical .75 outer .5 inner wall .0625 tubes)...so that is interesting.

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##### Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
« Reply #58 on: February 13, 2009, 17:29:34 pm »
are you sure dankies wires is 19 ohms a foot?  i have carpenter specs that the wire has 460ohm cir-mil/ft.. 1 milli is 9.825 times bigger then .004.. so .004 is 46.819 ohm/ft by what there specs say..   reg 302/304 wire has 27.375ohm/ft,  wouldnt stan keep it simple if it was that simple...  other alloys by wiretron close to 46.819  in .004 are
Inconel x750 =   45.867 ohm/ft ,
Alloy 875 =          54.687 ohm/ft,
Alloy 800 =          50 ohm/ft,
Ni Cr Type A =   42.187ohm/ft.
Ni Cr Typae C= 40.625ohm/ft

outlawstc

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• Posts: 68
##### Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
« Reply #59 on: February 13, 2009, 18:06:11 pm »
are you sure dankies wires is 19 ohms a foot?  i have carpenter specs that the wire has 460ohm cir-mil/ft.. 1 milli is 9.825 times bigger then .004.. so .004 is 46.819 ohm/ft by what there specs say..   reg 302/304 wire has 27.375ohm/ft,  wouldnt stan keep it simple if it was that simple...  other alloys by wiretron close to 46.819  in .004 are
Inconel x750 =   45.867 ohm/ft ,
Alloy 875 =          54.687 ohm/ft,
Alloy 800 =          50 ohm/ft,
Ni Cr Type A =   42.187ohm/ft.
Ni Cr Typae C= 40.625ohm/ft

outlawstc

Yeah thats its resistance , 19.775 ohms per foot , its quite high .

Id stay away for the 800 stuff , way too magnetic . Dont know about the others , it needs low coercivity and high permeability .

call wiretron , its 1000 foot minimal order , they charge like 50 cents a foot .

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##### Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
« Reply #60 on: February 13, 2009, 18:25:45 pm »
dankie what he is saying is that 19 ohms a foot is low.

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##### Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
« Reply #61 on: February 13, 2009, 19:01:14 pm »
according to the specs they give 19 is low..  i think low corecivity is due to silicon in the alloy? if so nicr has the same..  as for high permability i think that would be the iron..  when voltage is applied threw the wire it will not permanitly magnatize because of silcion content not allowing iron to align poles? you  want a type of resistive steel that wont become magnatized.  only in the presence of magnetic flux.?  430 does have a higher sulfer content.. i dont know what that will cause maybe more maleble?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coercivity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permeability_(electromagnetism)#Values_for_some_common_materials

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• Posts: 68
##### Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
« Reply #62 on: February 13, 2009, 19:18:44 pm »
according to the specs they give 19 is low..  i think low corecivity is due to silicon in the alloy? if so nicr has the same..  as for high permability i think that would be the iron..  when voltage is applied threw the wire it will not permanitly magnatize because of silcion content not allowing iron to align poles? you  want a type of resistive steel that wont become magnatized.  only in the presence of magnetic flux.?  430 does have a higher sulfer content.. i dont know what that will cause maybe more maleble?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coercivity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permeability_(electromagnetism)#Values_for_some_common_materials

Yeah the 430F and FR are the free machining versions , I believe this is their only advantage , I am sure the more common 430 would work as well .

But even then , I couldnt find a coated wire seller of this .

• Sr. member
• Posts: 363
##### Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
« Reply #63 on: February 13, 2009, 23:17:04 pm »
alright so once again from the data given to me your saying that the primary has 382 wraps and the secondary has 3822 wraps (273x14)...that means with an input of 12 volts at 3.3 amps are applied on the primary then 120 volts at .33amps will be the ouput on the secondary.....

also the inductance calculated from stanley meyers equation is L =  .909 henries.....which is 909 millihenries......now Chaddoken got 43mH for his coil and core when he calculated it with the standard equation.....i have not a clue about permeability factors.....all my cores are random cores purchased of ebays and surplus stores...so i purchased an inductance meter to take care of that......now using stans equation this vic coil with the factors given is once again .909 henries......this is not correct when the values are applied.....SO I REALLY NEED CLEAR CLARIFICATION.....and i think knowing the resistance for the primary and secondary coils would also be a great help in working these bugs out....the only way .909 henries would work is if we applied 1.216 khz frequency to achieve the 40,000 volts but then are capacitance is rediculously small........and at .043 henries we can apply a frequency of 25.7khz which is a much better choice in frequency but our capacitor is even smaller!....so once again i would like the resistance values for the secondary and primary.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/freqrange.jpg)

Remember,this coil assy if for the injectors,which is a very small cap.But you can wrap these bobbins with any size wire or nuber of turns needed to get the inductance needed for your cell.As for the number of turns,and inductance,you must figure each coil windings seperately.You need to figure inductance for the primary by itself as well as the chokes and secondaries.Number of turns are for each coil seperately.You don't add them together.Only the chokes will be added together to get total combined inductance,that is what you put into the calculator to get resonance frequency for your cell.Permibility for the steel I'm getting is @ 500 iu.
Don