Author Topic: Sequential high voltage distriuter  (Read 1963 times)

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Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2020, 12:44:58 pm »
Basic tests I think we need to do

Part list
Stan circuits like optocoupled actuators having isolated power supply for each line

This are useful since it can be placed anywhere in the circuit...

Today we have arduino modules that can be used for that.. I'm thinking about using those 12v power supplies with a relay board that comes with optocoupker inputs modified with adding high voltage mosfet with heatsinks and proper protection

Secondly we must be able to generate the frequency and sequence of steps with easy and it can be done with programming very easily..  I will be using the esp32 chip for it... probably I'm going to create a user interface to be able to change the parameters like frequency pw superposition synchro phase etc

Than we need cell

I plan to have different cells with different materials to test this idea of ions. So ideally some electrodes and diodes will be needed.

First test I think should be done is
DC source, high side and low side switching relays
Two cells
Resistor between them
Relay between them
A diode anti parallel with the dc inputs after the relays
Test see if for different resistor values if is possible to get inductive behavior of the cells
Test the same for different electrodes and electrolytes

If we can have a way to charge the cell and conclude that it can persist a current flow after we switch of the current input the resistor between the cells will show a negative voltage when the high side or and low side is open..
 Test the same with catalyst electrodes

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Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2020, 12:56:11 pm »
If we want to get the spirit of how meyer's cracked horvath and tayhehan parents we need to follow not his words but how this words relates to the work he referred to.

Stan talks about restricting current and that it is able to polarize water if he uses a limited current etc.

Well my guess of how we are going to see its work and find out what the hell he mean with it is to try it right

To try it right we need some cooperation between results so we need to make real measurements and take notes.. do math etc.. an incomplete experiment will be almost useless if not a funny way to expend money and time..

So let's get to it
We need some instruments to get a real lab test
The more instruments the best
Thermometer
Multimeter
Lrc meter
Ph meter
Scale
Oscilloscope
High voltage probe
Current probe or low resistor
Pressure sensor
Tdm meter
Water polymer filter
Data acquisition equipment or arduino labview etc
Excel table
Pdf document with diagrams of the experiment
Calculation of electrode potentials, Gibs free energy etc for the experiment
Variable VOLTAGE DC power supply
diodes of different types
Copper wire
Transformer core
Coil formers bobbins
Winding machine
Sulfuric acid
Potassium hydroxide
Sodium hydroxide
Nitric acid
Ammonium
Potassium nitrate
Other chemicals
Palladium chloride
Platinum chloride
Palladium and platinum metals
Nickel metal
Copper metal
Zinc metal
Aluminum metal
Lead metal

Acrylic plastic
Polyester foil
Copper foil
Capacitors
Resistor wire
Resistors

Etc

I have most of this here at home..  I just miss some chemicals and metals capacitors and ph meter from this list.. I'm going after it so I can at least make some decent tests..

I think the best way to go for it will be make many electrodes with same size but with different coatings ti start with a couple of each
 Basic ss tube and rod
Gold
Platinum
Palladium
Nickel
Aluminum
Zinc
Lead
Copper etc

I think having this different electrodes sets ready to mount and compare results is essential if we want results comparable..

To be able to plate platinum and palladium we need to get a gold layer before using stainless steel.. other materials have different needs but the hardest are this..
There are companies that can make this just cost some money and is not soooooo  much . The hardest to find is to plate palladium and platinum.. at least here in Brasil if you find in your country some one who plates platinum metal and palladium make me know..  here I didnt found good sources.. only gold here seems to be on use.. at least for public

This plan I'm creating for myself just organizing ideas.. if any of you want to help me put it together I think will be useful for all

Somewhere we can place all this data in organized manner will be useful so we can compare our results around the globe..

We randomized the research for 15 years.. perhaps with some organization we can get there. Getting some what older is helping me to get things more seriously and organized since everyday I have less energy and time and will to lost time..

I plan to spend 1 or 2 hours a day on this to be able to produce something .

I have a 3d printer and so also I think is a good way to standardize some prototypes for us .. just need to design some simple designs to start with

I also have a small lathe and milling homemade here to make small pieces.

I'm trying to raise a business on irrigation controllers to raise money to get the time and the things I miss.
I'm launching the products sales soon and will make a English version so if you want to help me I can accept donation or you can buy yourself a irrigation system that you can control from wifi 😀and will be helping me get on.

I believe with some more 1000 dollars maybe some less I will have everything I mention here including hopefully the catalysts and electrodes coating and missing things...  I already have many things hopefully I had space to keep all that was important so soon I hope to have some more organized research. The most vital thing for me would be some help thinking and organizing, drawing and keeping the fire alive. Would be great to have someone here to help me not get stuck too I'm thinking to try to find somebody to just help me here fiscally too. So money is not exact the bigger problem now. I need more than it to be able to organize it so we can get it in paper and stop doing things ten times for after give up with jo results...

Have a great week my friends
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 13:33:59 pm by sebosfato »

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Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2020, 13:50:06 pm »
Priorities in this order would be to have two cells with ability to change electrodes easy or more..
Standard test equipments such all us can use same stuf able repeatability of experiment with easy and cheap. Must have power supply variable dc with power meter..
Different materials of electrodes and catalysts
Different chemicals
Measurement of generated gas volume
Based in what I'm missing

Also

Test procedure model to fill with info of experiments
Table with calculations for chemicals nest eq etc electrode potentials etc
Plot graphs

Hope we can get somewhere doing this way




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Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2020, 02:48:45 am »
I'm trying to analyze the same concept from meyer's point of view .. I came up with this


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Misleading info out of way
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2020, 05:33:03 am »
Perhaps bifilar coil is the only thing we need

I will explain

A bifilar coil have exact same induced voltage on both coils this makes a low or zero voltage of connect in series

From analyzing stan cell carefully again with calm I noticed some things I have though before but now made sense with all things I'm thinking lately

First let me explain my theory...

I believe stan used a bifilar coil for each two cells.

I think if we could have isolated cells would be much better to get it working.. so we need two identical cells electrically isolated from each other so they talk only capacitively

High voltage is what will make current flow..

I think will only work with certain electrolytes not all at all

Catalysts may not even be needed but again very very high voltage is required

Basically when we set up the voltage with bifilar coil to two cells at resonance we are going to have some current to flow because of the capacitance getting charged and it will be a leakage current..

However above a threshold of voltage water ions will start to be forced thru the bifilar coil in form of current.. if we need to change the resonant frequency capacitor can be added  and it will have an effect on leakage current also.. 

Now why we didnt succeed until now

We need to achieve 20kv 5amps in the tank using water capacitance and a bifilar coil of no more than 200 turns. 

I believe it must be air core..

Only at the correct voltage level we are going to see any result..

We need to hit it very hard at a minimum frequency to make it happen...

Two diodes should be used

I think catalyst electrode would show the effect much easier at lower voltage perhaps... I can be wrong in this... who knows

I'm 85% sure of all am saying

Bifilar coils may have center taps... some ac at different angle or frequency can be useful there..




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Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2020, 05:41:23 am »
I think meyer's cell is a mystery in it's own.. probably just taking some plastic piece it would not work anymore.

We are not far from getting it to work...

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Meyer technology open source
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2020, 06:47:37 am »
Meyer wiper arm is now clear to me is used to balance how much current will leakage thru water...

Meyer talked about the bifilar coil it was true
He talked about series resonant and it was true
He hides how exactly the wiper arm goes
He hides one cell and one diode

Bifilar coils must have wiper arm so you can adjust how much one coil will induce into the water... this will control leakage

The input voltage should goe to center taps on the bifilar

I will show some drawing

Your welcome



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Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2020, 10:20:03 am »
I'm planning to make a 3d printerd coil former for the bifilar coil.. I'm going to make it probably one coil over the other such as to have a wiper arm over it on one of the coils... the coil must have a high Q so the smaller is the resistance of wire and permeability loss must be low.

Stan mention in patent it's a toroid.. this toroids for up to 50khz may have a k of 20..

The toroids must have a low capacity winding style and it will end up with very easy to access center taps since they will pass thru the middle of the core..

First this bifilar coils are going to be adjusted to get maximum resonance... than vt is applied to the center taps at the center taps the voltage between the coils should be zero.. is a equilibrium point.. this is why I decided to apply the voltage there first..

Stan graphs says that at a voltage threshold with current limited to a certain value gas will be generated on demand..

I was thinking and I guess what he achieved is basically the electric field that tay he han describe achieving dissociation  by collision

Above some electric field the dielectric will be so polarized that will disrupt the equilibrium that holds the ions equidistant... so ions can be made to oscillate at a resonant frequency... different water electrolytes and concentration will have different frequency
There is a simple way to track it.. we can apply a fixed frequency and slowly add electrolyte until the ions show oscillation... I think this oscillation can be view as a sort of voltage amplification on the cell if applying voltage to it with a huge resistor..  a huge resistor would have a large voltage drop so if meyer states that this resonance exist we may be able to detect it by using a high resistor in series with the cell and apply high voltage ac... if at a certain frequency the cell ions oscillates there should be a greater voltage drop at the cell or voltage gain at this frequency...

It's possible to predict this frequency as function of ions mass and distance in water..

Also the electric field required to disrupt is not necessary all at once since it's a resonance process

At the correct frequency using ac is possible to make the ions start oscillation, dc would be harder to detect is my perception.. since the flipping may have a more effective way to disturb the ions position...

So if ions will move maybe current will move also so probably we get a greater voltage drop so the cell voltage should become smaller in this circuit

For this tests I think we need a voltage potential high enough so maybe 10kv is not a bad idea... any high voltage transformer should do... but we need to add a resistor that will allow the reanformer to develop maxim power and should not be pulsed but have ac otherwise the noise could make things harder.. so if we get 10kv 1mega ohm resistor we have 10ma flow

The voltage are the cell should pretty much look like ac.. at certain frequency the cell voltage will gain and drop.. 

This is a key experiment to determine the best frequency to build the system...

Changing the electrolyte concentration will change the resonant frequency so the higher is the concentration the higher will be the frequency... and higher will be the difficulty to split them since the closer they get the electric field holding them in place become higher

When stan says well you can Raise the frequency and pick it little further he is limited by this... since a higher frequency would require more loss on capacitor it will also reduce the current required for certain voltage level...

The fact is there is going to be a concentration for each cell coil size to make it work...

He talking made somewhat clear that up to 50khz is easy to go ...

So a good test is to have a 10w  1megaohm resistor in series with the cell and apply from 1 to 10kv to it and track the cell voltage change as function of frequency

Having 10x 1w 100kohm resistors connected in series should do the job...

Thanks to steve I have here a power amplifier to be able to apply ac sine wave to a coil I'm planning using it for this. 

If with a current limited we verify that the voltage on cell rise it mean:
If current also rise it mean the cell impedance drops at resonance so current will increase
My cell can have 2kohm resistance with pure enough water.. 
If current drops and still voltage increase on cell than we may have what meyer describe
Would be great to find this out...
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 11:05:50 am by sebosfato »