Author Topic: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy  (Read 41506 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online Login to see usernames

  • Administrator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4440
    • water structure and science
Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
« Reply #96 on: October 03, 2008, 13:50:11 pm »
Hi Steve,

In regards to Marpacifico's questions (posted Sept. 12) the answer to question # 8 is to produce parahydrogen (and you are right) has a slower burn rate than orthohydrogen. It is used as one of several steps to address pre-ignition issues. In regards to his last post, I found similar information while doing a search on deuterium on Wikipedia.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr_model

According to Herman Anderson, deuterium (heavy water) was essential in his process. Noting the low density of hydrogen, this also needs to be looked at. The process of electrolysis is one of several methods to produce it.


Xman


Each hydrogen molecule (H2) consists of two hydrogen atoms linked by a covalent bond. If we neglect the traces of deuterium and tritium which could be present, each hydrogen atom consists of one proton and one electron. The proton has an associated magnetic moment, which we can treat as being generated by the proton's spin. The spins of the two hydrogen atoms can either be aligned the same direction (this is orthohydrogen) or in opposite directions (this is parahydrogen). The ratio between the ortho and para forms is about 3:1 at standard temperature and pressure, but the para form dominates at low temperatures (approx. 99.95% at 20 K). Other molecules and functional groups containing two hydrogen atoms, such as water and methylene, also have ortho and para forms, although their ratios differ from that of the dihydrogen molecule.

Orthohydrogen is unstable at low temperatures and spontaneously changes into parahydrogen, but the process is slow because the kinetic barrier to interconversion is high. The conversion from ortho to para state is exothermic (releasing heat). The presence of a orthomagnetic substance in liquid hydrogen can induce rapid heating - an undesirable occurrence when one wants hydrogen to remain liquid. At room temperature, hydrogen contains 75% orthohydrogen, a proportion which the liquefaction process preserves. One must therefore use a catalyst like ferric oxide, activated carbon, platinized asbestos, rare earth metals, uranium compounds, chromic oxide, or some nickel compounds[1] to accelerate the conversion of the liquid hydrogen into parahydrogen, or supply additional refrigeration equipment to absorb the heat that the liquid hydrogen will give off as it spontaneously converts itself to pure parahydrogen.

The first synthesis of pure parahydrogen was achieved by Paul Harteck and Karl Friedrich Bonhoeffer in 1929.

br
steve

ps.

Any diatomic molecule that contains magnetically
active centers exists in isomeric forms that differ in
their nuclear spin configuration.

In the case of hydrogen, there are two isomers, parahydrogen and orthohydrogen.

The para-isomer with an anti-symmetric spin configuration.
and the triply degenerate ortho-isomers with symmetric spin configurations.


Online Login to see usernames

  • Administrator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4440
    • water structure and science
Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
« Reply #97 on: October 03, 2008, 15:51:14 pm »
Britannica:

Physical and chemical properties » Ortho-hydrogen and para-hydrogen
Two types of molecular hydrogen (ortho and para) are known. These differ in the magnetic interactions of the protons due to the spinning motions of the protons. In ortho-hydrogen, the spins of both protons are aligned in the same direction—that is, they are parallel. In para-hydrogen, the spins are aligned in opposite directions and are therefore antiparallel. The relationship of spin alignments determines the magnetic properties of the atoms. Normally, transformations of one type into the other (i.e., conversions between ortho and para molecules) do not occur and ortho-hydrogen and para-hydrogen can be regarded as two distinct modifications of hydrogen. The two forms may, however, interconvert under certain conditions. Equilibrium between the two forms can be established in several ways. One of these is by the introduction of catalysts (such as activated charcoal or various paramagnetic substances); another method is to apply an electrical discharge to the gas or to heat it to a high temperature.

The concentration of para-hydrogen in a mixture that has achieved equilibrium between the two forms depends on the temperature as shown by the following figures:


 

Essentially pure para-hydrogen can be produced by bringing the mixture into contact with charcoal at the temperature of liquid hydrogen; this converts all the ortho-hydrogen into para-hydrogen. The ortho-hydrogen, on the other hand, cannot be prepared directly from the mixture because the concentration of para-hydrogen is never less than 25 percent.

The two forms of hydrogen have slightly different physical properties. The melting point of para-hydrogen is 0.10° lower than that of a 3:1 mixture of ortho-hydrogen and para-hydrogen. At ?252.77° C the pressure exerted by the vapour over liquid para-hydrogen is 1.035 atmospheres (one atmosphere is the pressure of the atmosphere at sea level under standard conditions, equal to about 14.69 pounds per square inch), compared with 1.000 atmosphere for the vapour pressure of the 3:1 ortho–para mixture. As a result of the different vapour pressures of para-hydrogen and ortho-hydrogen, these forms of hydrogen can be separated by low-temperature gas chromatography, an analytical process that separates different atomic and molecular species on the basis of their differing volatilities.


Online Login to see usernames

  • Administrator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4440
    • water structure and science
Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
« Reply #98 on: October 03, 2008, 16:01:36 pm »
Here is the patent of XOGEN.

They descripe pretty much in detail how to get para hydrogen.
19hz is what seems to be the best frequency for the electromagnet coil.

br
Steve

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 657
Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
« Reply #99 on: October 03, 2008, 18:47:35 pm »
i first started out replicating the xogen patent before i knew what stanley meyer was...and now from where i stand i think the only valueable thing you can take from xogen is their pwm circuit.....which i have......and their coil concept.......their pwm has 2 sets of pulses...one for hte electrodes.....and one for hte coil....on the off pulses of the electrode there is an on pulse for the coil....so that the pulses are interlocking......pretty interesting i have the entire pdf for the xogen replication....which is deemed......HYDROSTAR....or that run your car on water bullshit.

Online Login to see usernames

  • Administrator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4440
    • water structure and science
Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
« Reply #100 on: October 04, 2008, 10:33:25 am »
I have the Hydrostar pdf also.
They also show that coil on top of the tubes.

It seems worth a try.

br
steve

Xman

  • Guest
Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
« Reply #101 on: October 05, 2008, 21:40:14 pm »
I was involved with the Hydrostar (or should I say Don Harper) for a short time. He sold 1500 of these manuals (last count) and was looking for someone to build them. The author of this manual fell off the planet and can't be found. I already had the Xogen model (very similar) & others and had previously been working on this. I found several bogus assembly procedures in this manual including encasing the coil in cement. The coil needs to come in contact with the water to do anything and came up with another design. I used a capacitor mounting bracket (inverted & modified). I insulated the screw hole tabs that usually mounts to a surface and this supported the coil secured with wire ties. The tabs (with the screw for tightening the collar) was cut off. I attached the collar to the inside surface of the inner tube. This allowed the coil to be removed from the housing with the electrode assembly for cleaning. I built one for a customer and it turned out to be a pretty good design. The problem with the Hydrostar & Xogen models is that they utilize one set of larger tubes. Don't waste your time & money with this design (been there...done that). You get much more electrode surface area from the 9 set smaller tubes (a la Stan Meyer). Someone told Don Harper that the coil sitting in water would deteriorate the core. I had a coil sitting in water (with potassium hydroxide) from January to May of this year and it had no ill effects on the core. He (Don Harper) has no technical knowledge and didn't want to listen to me (someone who does), so we parted company. I have maintained some features of the electronics; water level indicators etc.

Xman

Online Login to see usernames

  • Administrator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4440
    • water structure and science
Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
« Reply #102 on: October 05, 2008, 22:43:51 pm »
I was involved with the Hydrostar (or should I say Don Harper) for a short time. He sold 1500 of these manuals (last count) and was looking for someone to build them. The author of this manual fell off the planet and can't be found. I already had the Xogen model (very similar) & others and had previously been working on this. I found several bogus assembly procedures in this manual including encasing the coil in cement. The coil needs to come in contact with the water to do anything and came up with another design. I used a capacitor mounting bracket (inverted & modified). I insulated the screw hole tabs that usually mounts to a surface and this supported the coil secured with wire ties. The tabs (with the screw for tightening the collar) was cut off. I attached the collar to the inside surface of the inner tube. This allowed the coil to be removed from the housing with the electrode assembly for cleaning. I built one for a customer and it turned out to be a pretty good design. The problem with the Hydrostar & Xogen models is that they utilize one set of larger tubes. Don't waste your time & money with this design (been there...done that). You get much more electrode surface area from the 9 set smaller tubes (a la Stan Meyer). Someone told Don Harper that the coil sitting in water would deteriorate the core. I had a coil sitting in water (with potassium hydroxide) from January to May of this year and it had no ill effects on the core. He (Don Harper) has no technical knowledge and didn't want to listen to me (someone who does), so we parted company. I have maintained some features of the electronics; water level indicators etc.

Xman

Hi Xman,

So you have tested this coil and you can confirm that this coil with it magnetic field works?
I mean, it really turn ortho into para hydrogen?
It really slow down the burning rate of the hydrogen?
Can you make a drawing of a coil that does this job?
Is the ideal frequency really 19hz?
I want to make one into my bubbler. This because i want to use it in comby with my dry plate cell, and that one has no space inside for a coil.....

br
steve

Xman

  • Guest
Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
« Reply #103 on: October 07, 2008, 18:24:42 pm »
Hi Steve,

Actually, I haven't run any test on this but the concept seems logical.  This is what the Xogen model (and others) are using it for and I assumed they have run test. It's just a toroid coil and you're better off buying something pre-made. Winding coils is time consuming and a "pain in the ass" unless you have a coil winder.

Xman