Author Topic: steeling ideas?  (Read 284 times)

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steeling ideas?
« on: November 06, 2019, 21:44:39 pm »
Recently we learned that the Water Disrupting Spark Plug promoted around 1994 by Stan Meyers was in fact suggested to him by Dale Pond at a conference in Switzerland back in 1989. The idea was you should be able to use Keely's 42.8khz emitted from a spark plug to instantly dissociate the water molecule to hydrogen and oxygen which would then be exploded to drive the piston.

Meyer took this idea, claimed it as his own and never credited Dale with the idea. He cannot patent it because it was disclosed in a public place in the presence of witnesses. Needless to say, like all of Meyer's other claims, nothing has come of it.

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Re: steeling ideas?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2019, 22:20:50 pm »
Hello Steve.

People say this or that, but it will be more useful if they quote or include some articles that lead to this belief.

I believe that Meyer copied the Faraday's Law of Electrolysis...

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Re: steeling ideas?
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2019, 12:51:26 pm »
Recently we learned that the Water Disrupting Spark Plug promoted around 1994 by Stan Meyers was in fact suggested to him by Dale Pond at a conference in Switzerland back in 1989. The idea was you should be able to use Keely's 42.8khz emitted from a spark plug to instantly dissociate the water molecule to hydrogen and oxygen which would then be exploded to drive the piston.

Keely gave a public demonstration in which he placed two drops of water in a cannon, then caused them to explode, launching a cannon ball.  He did this with sound, not an electrical spark.

He had a wire running to the cannon from a metal sphere, and this wire conducted longitudinal sound waves to the water.  This happened when he played three consecutive notes on his violin.  They were the the first three open notes on the treble clef - C, A ,F - in descending order.  (I've seen a picture of the tablature, in Keely's own handwriting, and I've heard the sequence played with proper cadence).  It would be difficult to do this with a sparkplug.  Keely's metal Dynasphere contained a number of metal tubes having resonant lengths.  Properly timed sounds interacted to form a pulse whose surface had the same size as that of the sphere.  This compound frequency sonic pulse was then carried by a wire, to the cannon.

The 42.8 kHz, by itself, isn't going to work.

The picture of his tablature, and other information, was in a magazine titled "Suppressed Inventions" published in the early 1970's.

edit:  If you want to try doing this electrically, at the very least you'll need to incorporate a delay line into the circuit, to facilitate pulse formation.  Edwin Gray used a delay line which was just a coiled up 50 foot extension cord.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 13:35:46 pm by tektrical »

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Re: steeling ideas?
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2019, 18:48:37 pm »
Recently we learned that the Water Disrupting Spark Plug promoted around 1994 by Stan Meyers was in fact suggested to him by Dale Pond at a conference in Switzerland back in 1989. The idea was you should be able to use Keely's 42.8khz emitted from a spark plug to instantly dissociate the water molecule to hydrogen and oxygen which would then be exploded to drive the piston.

Keely gave a public demonstration in which he placed two drops of water in a cannon, then caused them to explode, launching a cannon ball.  He did this with sound, not an electrical spark.

He had a wire running to the cannon from a metal sphere, and this wire conducted longitudinal sound waves to the water.  This happened when he played three consecutive notes on his violin.  They were the the first three open notes on the treble clef - C, A ,F - in descending order.  (I've seen a picture of the tablature, in Keely's own handwriting, and I've heard the sequence played with proper cadence).  It would be difficult to do this with a sparkplug.  Keely's metal Dynasphere contained a number of metal tubes having resonant lengths.  Properly timed sounds interacted to form a pulse whose surface had the same size as that of the sphere.  This compound frequency sonic pulse was then carried by a wire, to the cannon.

The 42.8 kHz, by itself, isn't going to work.

The picture of his tablature, and other information, was in a magazine titled "Suppressed Inventions" published in the early 1970's.

edit:  If you want to try doing this electrically, at the very least you'll need to incorporate a delay line into the circuit, to facilitate pulse formation.  Edwin Gray used a delay line which was just a coiled up 50 foot extension cord.


Thats very good info, Tek.
Is there a possibililty that you post that tablature?

cheers!

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Re: steeling ideas?
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2019, 05:21:54 am »
My copy of that magazine is in storage and I don't currently have hold of it.  It can probably be found in a searchable data base associated with the Library of Congress, or maybe somewhere else on the Internet.  But the tablature was simple enough.  It was the treble cleff, with a black circle in the first three spaces, up from the bottom, one above the other.  Each circle had a slanted line going up to the right, and the ends of these lines were connected by a vertical line. Normally, this would indicate three eighth notes played simultaneously.  Still, the proof is in the puffin' (as they used to say on the Grand ole Opry).  It is possible to play three strings at the same time on a violin.  You can even play all four strings at once by taking the hair off the bow, turning the bow upside down under the strings, then replacing the hair, over the strings.  You can also play one note, then another, while continuing to hold the first one.  I don't know how this would be indicated on tablatur, but If you hear the riff in person, the notes sound sequential, with the overtones coming together to form a spherical surface which is a few times larger than the violin.  If you're within a few feet, at least some of the sound seems to come from the surface in the air, rather than the instrument itself. 

   
The magazine didn't say how Keely played the notes, only that he "played three notes on a violin" and this launched the cannon ball.  Keely's tablature drawing showed what the three notes were - F, A, and C.  What wasn't shown was the order the notes were played in.  The reason I know is because I once heard an old time fiddler play the riff, and observed the effect.  (1951).  Back in those days, tricks like that were passed around and handed down.  Somewhere, some fiddler must have heard what Keely did, and shared it.


For what it's worth, it only takes two notes to cause a longitudinal pulse to condense.  A longer, faster baseline overtaking a shorter, slower one.  Or you can use four or five frequencies.  Pulse length is always equal to or greater than four pi times pulse width.  Keely may have found that he needed three notes for the pulse to be long enough to effectively launch the mass of the bowling ball.  And that's why you might not be able to use just the 42.8 kHz, even if it were the active harmonic component of the overall pulse.  When Puharich did his hole punching experiment, through the ceiling and the roof, his test tube setup was producing the key frequency.  But he also had a couple other frequencies mixed in, as a standing wave, trying to produce sedimentation.