Author Topic: Magnetic "monopole" motor  (Read 397 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Magnetic "monopole" motor
« on: February 07, 2019, 06:17:55 am »
I had an idea and i´m going to drop here for later use..

the idea is a rotor with a set of magnets opposing each other such as to have poles with only one polarity facing outwards in the axis direction for example 8 north facing out sets

for each set there will be at least one set of a toroid closing the magnetic circuit outside and serving as the source of the field that will attract the magnets to it... while at the same time coils will be on the end portions of this toroid form close to where it faces the magnets in the rotor... this coils will also apply an opposing magnetic field sequentially right after each magnet set pass thru the exact middle point to cause maximum repelling force... the test to be done is if the ability to null the inductance of the field coils will reduce the required power to operate the machine and thereto generate free energy...

the energy increment would come from the fact that the magnets are attracted to the toroid in first place generating electricity at the same time while than after that the magnetic attraction just need to be canceled out and it can be done thru the two output coils in series minimizing the inductance to the lowest value while allowing two outputs of electrical power,,

this idea takes advantage that the toroid is iron or such to be paramagnet able to be magnetized by a permanent magnetic field and cause attraction

the rotor could also be a counterspining set.. and the number of toroids and magnets may differ and the time distance betwen the toroids may not be regular such as to reduce the effect of the magnet get stuck at the all poles at the same time...  ???

when manipulating those parameters the input frequency of the system will be restricted to few different frequencies..


Offline Login to see usernames

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 178
Re: Magnetic "monopole" motor
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2019, 07:38:11 am »
sorry to say all these types were tryed years ago I was part f some in my group  do not waste you time and money

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Sr. member
  • ***
  • Posts: 326
  • Build it. Power it. Use it.
Re: Magnetic "monopole" motor
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2019, 20:22:45 pm »
Hi Fabio,

What you're describing is not a monopole system.  The iron induces an opposite polarity to the rotor magnets.  Even with all opposing fields having the same polarity, it would still only be unipolar.  Monopole means there is a single magnetic polarity present in the system.

There is such a thing as a monopole motor.  Edwin Gray had a motor which was tested by an independent laboratory which found that the motor had a 360 degree North Pole magnetic field.  Both ends of all coils were North Pole, as well as the SIDES of the coils.  This motor also had an efficiency of 25,000 percent.  It produced an output of ten HP, under load, with an input of just under 28 Watts.

And it's easy enough to build this kind of system - the key is to use magnetic current, rather than normal electricity.  With North Pole current, the only fields you'll have will be North Pole.  Gray copied Tesla's Radiant Energy system to produce the magnetic current.  (What I call diamagnetic energy).  EMF is combined with CEMF by discharging a capacitor through a spark gap, in series with an inductor.  The inductor side of the gap produces North Pole current, while the capacitor side produces South Pole current.

Tesla used very short pulses, so that the energy would radiate outwards, perpendicular to the gap and wires. But a motor requires longer term pulses.  Gray knew that CEMF exists only as long as the EMF continues to increase.  So he constructed his pulses by sequentially discharging three or more capacitors having increasing potentials.  This produces a stair step waveform which simulates a triangle wave lasting for the duration of the pulse.  A long baseline triangle wave can also be produced by using a capacitance multiplier circuit to adjust a capacitor's reactance.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 178
Re: Magnetic "monopole" motor
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2019, 04:36:17 am »
but do what I did and get the use of both poles of the manets and the coils and stop pulsing all the coils

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: Magnetic "monopole" motor
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2019, 19:32:17 pm »
Hi Fabio,

What you're describing is not a monopole system.  The iron induces an opposite polarity to the rotor magnets.  Even with all opposing fields having the same polarity, it would still only be unipolar.  Monopole means there is a single magnetic polarity present in the system.

There is such a thing as a monopole motor.  Edwin Gray had a motor which was tested by an independent laboratory which found that the motor had a 360 degree North Pole magnetic field.  Both ends of all coils were North Pole, as well as the SIDES of the coils.  This motor also had an efficiency of 25,000 percent.  It produced an output of ten HP, under load, with an input of just under 28 Watts.

And it's easy enough to build this kind of system - the key is to use magnetic current, rather than normal electricity.  With North Pole current, the only fields you'll have will be North Pole.  Gray copied Tesla's Radiant Energy system to produce the magnetic current.  (What I call diamagnetic energy).  EMF is combined with CEMF by discharging a capacitor through a spark gap, in series with an inductor.  The inductor side of the gap produces North Pole current, while the capacitor side produces South Pole current.

Tesla used very short pulses, so that the energy would radiate outwards, perpendicular to the gap and wires. But a motor requires longer term pulses.  Gray knew that CEMF exists only as long as the EMF continues to increase.  So he constructed his pulses by sequentially discharging three or more capacitors having increasing potentials.  This produces a stair step waveform which simulates a triangle wave lasting for the duration of the pulse.  A long baseline triangle wave can also be produced by using a capacitance multiplier circuit to adjust a capacitor's reactance.

you are absolutely right! is a unipolar what i wanted to mean.. but of course there are no monopoles know yet i just wanted the name to remember that it would work with oposite magnets

the main idea is like you said that iron will attract the magnet on both sides with the same polarity because it forms another dipole ...

my idea is that if you have the magnets already opposing each other in the magnetic circuit it would cost less energy to simply cancel this attraction of them to the iron and free them and leave it to go...

just a supposition i´m not sure if it will really do this... however is nice to think about it

i dont know about this gray motor you talk about... could you measure this north pole current?

i think to try to get more energy out than in we need to understand how to use the theory behind barbats patent an apply to it... how can we change the today parameter of efficiency for good.

with magnetic energy is not very simply to work because it depends on time a little and so is not as easy to revert the magnetic field

a dc motor normally when connected to the source will reach a certain speed and if it is disconnected from the source the voltage across the windings will be close to the applied because there is current and resistance also involved...

but this counter emf is what holds the motor to continue increasing speed... the current get limited by this voltage and is equal to = Vin -VBEMF / R or Z


Offline Login to see usernames

  • Sr. member
  • ***
  • Posts: 326
  • Build it. Power it. Use it.
Re: Magnetic "monopole" motor
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2019, 21:08:58 pm »
BEMF appears when the potential of the applied EMF decreases or is switched off.  It's not a component of magnetic current.  This current can be measured by placing a coil on a swing arm, in opposition to a stationary coil, then equating the swing arm deflection with that of a current meter's needle.

@ Aussepom: If what you're doing is working, I'd say go with it and don't let anyone distract your train of thought.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Rotate and shake
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2019, 08:59:32 am »
when two magnets are glued together to take one magnet apart from another is hard if you try to go against the magnetic field force directly... if you try to slide it it become much easier...

i had an idea of how to use the magnetic force to generate power.. or convert if you will

but look at this

imagine 3 discs having an arrangement of permanent magnets... one in the middle having alternating poles of magnets and free to rotate and to move in the x axis direction!

the other two are fixed with a hole for the moving axis of the middle disc to move...

basically the middle disc can rotate and move in the axis direction... or the middle disc can stay non rotating and only move at the x axis... and other variations should be valid too..

but lets keep it simple... the idea is that this rotating disc is going to become a force perpendicular to the direction of the rotation.. by the effect of the magnets attracting and oposing as the disc rotates...

the axis than need to be connected to a lever to rotate another disc generator or connected to a piston magnet going in and out of a super conducting high voltage coil!

the disc will have a mass inertia increase because of the rotation and this system could be connected to a spring to make it resonant... 

so basically you can convert the rotating movement to a linear movement of the magnets act by their own force....

i never saw anything like this before

perhaps it could be used only in the repeling mode to not let the disc have a dead start point... by dead start i mean the need of high force to start the rotation..

the stationary discs will attract each other because one have only north poles going in and the other south but they can not move and the magnets position must be off set such as during part of the rotation one disc pulls and the other right pull back the lever or else..

in this mode as the magnets are in the same direction.. power output can be simply a coil around the discs arrangement ... super conductor preferably


from what i see here the force to turn the disc is not the same as the magnets can do

i may be wrong

i have some neodimium magnets that has 60g each

F=m*a

so the acceleration of the disc in the axis direction will be the transfer of magnetic force to a energy consuming device such as a flywheel connected to a generator etc

the total momentum of the system is important because it will take energy for the lever to and disc inertia etc to move... it will also limit the speed of rotation because if the frequency is too great it will basically not oscillate much...

so it should be light weight as possible.. 60g for a 1 tesla is ok   

how much  force can a magnet like this do? i bet more than 300N opposing very closely so 30kg seems reasonable

so with a force of 300N the acceleration would be very high 5000m/s^2
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 10:09:43 am by sebosfato »

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: Magnetic "monopole" motor
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2019, 15:04:40 pm »
@ distance of 4cm one magnet pull the other with a 2Newton force  @ 5 cm is 1,1 N

1 cm should give maybe 10N or more

i used the measure  mass change to determine the force..

the magnets has 1cmx2cmx4cm having the poles at the 2x4 faces