Author Topic: Retry N1001  (Read 16358 times)

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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #312 on: May 16, 2019, 03:22:04 am »
it got me to think

if we could use the resonance to move the particles if they are charged particles it will create an electromagnetic field that could be possibly "collected" or measured

i once had my cell to play like a 2,5khz tone like if it was a tweeter ... i posted somewhere.. i wasnt the stan big cell it was my small acrylic cell and it was loaded with KOH

strangely the reaction only occurred when the starting water was pure and koh was gradually added.. the volume of water was few milliliters so it boils fast...

at the time the dc was from variac and it was pulsed at this frequency i remember that when changing the frequency the sound stops and only return at this frequency

the inside rod is smaller than the tube where it fits in and is solid...

i made some acrylic disks with holes to water to pass and the gas to come out and isolate the water from leaking by using a oring that allow the electical connection on the outside... the electrode also hold the cell together on the other side you can see this on youtube video






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the acoustic resonance of water
« Reply #313 on: May 16, 2019, 03:47:51 am »
could it get so simple? to simply make the pressure and voltage do the job to get the molecules split economically ? and perhaps also other processes!

i have read somethings about utrasonic resonant chamber that is used to create a cooling machine  so the pressures achieved must be high under resonance!

if we get a high Q factor it will accumulate lots of power in form of vibration instead of become water fog

i´m starting to think that in two ways

we can get the resonance by a mass and a spring

water can be the mass but it should rather be the spring in order to get the advantage (my view)

so if it is the spring what is the mass?

or is the resonance only related to the size? like room mode and just that

some time ago i had to repair a tweeter because i could not afford the change for a new and i simply found a wire with same resistance per number of turns and wound it again and it worked..

it uses a magnet and i think it were 7 turns of wire glued to a aluminum foil in form of tube but not short circuit glued in turn into a movable membrane.. the coil and aluminum tube fit into a magnet

so the mass of the wire must be small to get decent output at high frequency

the piezo is a ceramic that can modify its form when its electrically excited..

its like a little speaker and can cause the type of waves that would resonate the water inside a tube..

i guess as the sound waves are longitudinal it dont really matter the real crossection of water it have to travel to however the lower it is the higher will be the resistance to the flow of water and thereto may give a effect of widen the band width of the cavity

i think that depending of how we build it the tank of the water can become part of the resonance and also the rest of the space in the cell...


twice the frequency is something meyer repeatedly reforced in his dialogues

at the twice the resonance the mode will concentrate the high pressure node in the center of the cavity this may be a key

also other overtones will have the frequency in the middle .. notice that is longitudinally that i mean..


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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #314 on: May 16, 2019, 09:34:09 am »
you are moving now into Keely,s work, Fabio!

Nobody really knew how that techno worked..

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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #315 on: May 16, 2019, 13:07:40 pm »
i guess is one of the things most never tried..

perhaps using this analogy to the speaker will be easier to understand how this can do something for us..

i read a paper about using ultrasonic and electrolysis but i dont remember if it were a resonant cavity and what frequency was.. but it was reported that it increased the rate of electrolysis somehow if i remember well

i´m will try to find some info about keely

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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #316 on: May 16, 2019, 15:09:50 pm »
lets say we get a 4 inch diameter tube fill with 70% water and 30% air on top sealed...

in this case the air  may have s a different impedance than water and should reflect back part of the incoming vibration... we need an air aperture at least to get the gas out so i guess the air portion of the system may made sense to most...

the air pressure would change the air impedance?:

would it change the resonant properties:?  speed of sound? etc?

i dont remember how and where but someone once commented that one of the pieces inside the stan cell was a piezo 

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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #317 on: May 24, 2019, 22:24:53 pm »
i was considering the piezo idea...

i think i found a way to use high voltage and piezo to create the movement we need

you know those lighters that use a piezo to create the spark ?

perhaps we could use a piezo that becomes one electrode that moves and apply field to the water

in a lighter we press and it accumulate the pressure in a spring that is released by a mechanism to allow a fast change in pressure resulting in the high voltage spark

its it correct?

so the piezo if put to vibrate relative to the cell it will be like a sound speaker in a in a room and it will excite the mode of vibration available

i think that the length of the gap perhaps is more important than the gap itself since sound travel longitudinally.. thus the longer the tube the higher will be the resonant frequency of it

i see one interesting thing about this... Stan once said that if you get electric charged particles to move in a electromagnetic field you get energy as result.. and perhaps this is the only way to effectively move the water in a sync with the electrical pulse being applied...

from the drawings i believe he uses overtones of the fundamental frequency to contain the action more inside the tube perhaps...

it seems to me that this hell of movement there inside will at least give some interesting result

i think of construct a cell that has some water in from bottom and but that also have the piezo on the bottom part than the middle electrode is hold from up and there is only a small exit for gas also on the up side.


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Re: THE GMS start
« Reply #318 on: September 24, 2019, 04:03:02 am »
this is the gms very first start it has a kind of automatic handling of the injector timing to reach the rpm we set by the analog/digital accelerator

still missing linking the acceleration with the max time of the injector but already would work with one injector
missing the output for the other solenoids for air and exhaust

i guess the order for injection should be first air than hydrogen than exhaust or reverse this way there is aways air or exhaust on the line between the hydrogen output making it safe for not having back fire in the cell  (for the case of using the 3 injectors design)

i´m using an analog input interrupt as the rpm counter and the injector triger goes into the digital interrupt (the analog interrupts dont interrupts the external interrupts digital pin one and 2)

there are two ranges of adaption when you change the rpm one that is faster when the difference in rpm is greater than 50 rpm and one that is fine when the rpm is within 5 rpm difference... (it will always happen some difference)

i had to reintegrate the timer to use the millis to better count the rpm but its ok because its working very nicely now since appears that as the signal trigger to the injector comes from the interrupt it dont have any delays or inconsistency in the pulse!

it turns out that if i want to use the arduino nano it will require a safe logic to determine each injector will be firing

the nano having only two interrups can deal only with two injectors trigger directly for more only adding logics

an arduino mega has 4 interrupts  or esp 32 could do everything we want and probably faster

i have a few spare and i plan to get a code for it too as esp32 have as many interrupt as needed

the only side effect is that is 3,3v logic so it require some resistors to work safe with 5 volts logic basically or those level converters not by far a problem
 the esp 32 is multicore aparently too


so as you see i´m doing some advance on the GMS

whos gona test? i dont have a working engine.. nor money to get injectors or other stuff (trying to work on that but is not being easy and probably if the money come my time will go because i´m probably starting a new company that deals with refrigeration systems , when i get funds it will explode! but my investors certainly wont let me work anyelse project for while so i´m focusing now)

if some of you could maybe do a nice donations i could get some of the parts and try doing the tests needed, now i´m 33 and after 13 years working on this i got a lot of energy and knowledge from this time spend but at the same time i didnt focused in making money consistently so at this point of my life i have no money spare.. all i have is a fiat uno 2003 lend from my dad, my test equipments, and work on the streets selling homemade beer to live... also fix some equiments and do some other jobs that appears but is hard getting the end of the month, if werent for my parents surely i could not be here today writing this now. So if any of you feel the value of what we are constructing here, the knowledge that we are developing here feel free to help and be an active part on this at this very special moment because i still have energy and yet time to invest. All this components i have here to work with except for the ones 2 or 3 people send to me i got over the years at the moments that i had some money spare so i converted to components spare becuase i know that when i didnt have the money because spend elsewhere i would not be able to do anything latter with no components.

the link for the donations is in thru this pages and i wont be repeating it everywhere first to not get the risk of losing what i write eventually because there are certain links that simply make everything i wrote disappear and to not disturb the discussion. So if you please want to donate go back thru this pages, read the content and if you feel you can please help... every dollar or euro is more than 4 reais.... and everything we buy from outside here cost up to 4 times what cost for you there not taking account the conversion! So if you want to send me injectors, or whatever you have that you feel it could help me just give me a message and  i send you the address coordinates for the mail.


unsigned long newtime=0;

// inputs

int accel = A0;   // analog/digital accelerator signal
int pressure = A1;
int clocksignal = 3; // //input interrupt 1 / pin 3
int injector = 13;  // injector output
int rpmreadpin= A2;

unsigned int rpmread = 0;
int rpmset = 0; // rpm determined by analog/digital accelerator
String state;

float injectiontime = 5; //ms  injection timming
float timeincrement = 0.001;
float timedecrement = 0.001;
int mininjectiontime = 1;
float maxinjectiontime=10;
int maxrpmset=6000;
int minrpmset=1000;
int stable=50;
int finestable=5;
float finetimeincrement = 0.00001;
float finetimedecrement = 0.00001;

volatile unsigned int newPos;
volatile unsigned int count=0; // analog2 interrupt rotine counter rpm read signal
bool rpmstate=0;
bool lastrpmstate=1;

volatile int clockcount;
int lastclockcount;

int avecount;
int average1;
int average2;
int average3;
int average4;


void setup() {
  DDRB |= 0B00100000;  // pinMode(injector, OUTPUT); pin 13
  Serial.begin(9600);
  pinMode(clocksignal, INPUT_PULLUP);//d3
  pinMode(rpmreadpin, INPUT);//A2

//cli();
//TIMSK0 &= ~(1 << TOIE0);  // disble timer
//sei();

PCICR |= (1 << PCIE1);    // This enables Pin Change Interrupt 1 that covers the Analog input pins or Port C.
PCMSK1 |= (1 << PCINT10) | (1 << PCINT11);  // This enables the interrupt for pin 2 and 3 of Port C.

attachInterrupt(1, INJECTION, RISING);
  }

ISR(PCINT1_vect) {
count++;
}

void loop() {
 rpmset=constrain((analogRead(accel)*6),minrpmset ,maxrpmset);   // rpm determined by analog/digital accelerator

 if (rpmset > (rpmread + stable)) {
  state="Accelerating" ;  // injection time increase
  injectiontime=constrain((injectiontime+timeincrement),1,10);
  } else if ( rpmset < (rpmread-stable)) {
  state="Deaccelerating"; // injection time reduce
  injectiontime=constrain((injectiontime-timedecrement),mininjectiontime,maxinjectiontime); 
  } else {
    state="Stable";
    if (rpmset > (rpmread + finestable)) {
  state="fineAccelerating" ;  // injection time increase
  injectiontime=constrain((injectiontime+timeincrement),1,10);
  } else if ( rpmset < (rpmread-finestable)) {
  state="fineDeaccelerating"; // injection time reduce
  injectiontime=constrain((injectiontime-timedecrement),mininjectiontime,maxinjectiontime);
  }

  }
if (millis() > newtime+500 ){
  newtime=millis();
   rpmread=count*12;
avecount++;
if (avecount == 1)average1=rpmread;
if (avecount == 2 )average2=rpmread;
if (avecount == 3 )average3=rpmread;
if (avecount == 4 ){
  average4=rpmread;
  avecount=0;
}
rpmread=(average1+average2+average3+average4)/4;
printcallback() ;
count=0;
}
}

void INJECTION() {  //interrupt routine
   PORTB |= 0B00100000;   //digitalWrite(injector, HIGH);
   delayMicroseconds(injectiontime*1000);
   PORTB &= 0B11011111;   // digitalWrite(injector, LOW);

}
void printcallback() {
 Serial.print("Accelerator  ");
Serial.print(rpmset);
Serial.println(" RPM SET");
Serial.print("Injection Time ");
Serial.print(injectiontime);
//Serial.print(injectiontime);
Serial.println(" miliseconds");
Serial.print(rpmread);
Serial.println(" RPM Measured ");
Serial.println(state);
}

quoting myself

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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #319 on: September 24, 2019, 07:30:22 am »
It's late and i barely read your post, it will be this weekend before I can thouraly read it. Can you please sum it up briefly until this weekend. It caught my interest tonight as I'm quickly checking the site.