Author Topic: Retry N1001  (Read 16411 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #208 on: December 11, 2018, 18:33:45 pm »
this video exemplify what i was talking recently..

when we submerge a metal its free electrons will be attracted to the water molecules because they are free to move and this makes the electrode positive in some sense

the higher is the atraction of the metal to its electrons the lower will be the potential

both electrodes therefore have some sort of negative electric field on the surface.... to revert this electric field electrons must be taken off from the electrode making it now positive.. so in an electrolysis when we add charge o it the negative electrode will be more negative than the positive electrode in relation to the water solution

i´m planing on using potassium nitrate

my idea is that it will form a basic electrolyte near the positive electrode and acid near the negative electrode due to the proximity of the respective opposite ions. i even thought about adding some potassium to bring it to elevate the ph or acid to lower the ph...

« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 01:32:54 am by sebosfato »

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #209 on: December 12, 2018, 11:31:59 am »
it apear to me that in the last pdf document about the electrochemical potential of different materials it became very evident why the 304 material may be the best for the application...


Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #210 on: December 12, 2018, 17:12:15 pm »
i was doing a research on possible electrolytes i came to the conclusion that the electrolytes that would more strongly affect water would be those that have most solubility and higher charge of the ions

the ´potential candidates are : (solubility NTP and molar mass)

aluminum +3 chlorate  -3  not found solubility  277g/mol

barium +2 chlorate -3 27g /100ml 304g/mol

sodium + chlorate -3 100g/100ml 106g/mol

sodium hydroxide 111g/100ml  39g/mol

sodium sulfate 14g/100ml 142g/mol

potassium sulfate 12g/100ml   174g/ mol

potassium + chlorate -3  8g/100ml  122g/mol

potassium+  nitrate  -2   24g/100ml 101 g/ mol the solubility at 100C is 243g/100ml increase 10x

potassium hydroxide 121g/100ml  56g /mol

question for you what is the strongest electrolyte ?

the most stable?

the one with lower energy to generate free electrons?

here i have the solubility of each miss the comparison between the molar mass to see which one will actually be in contact with most water molecules..


i found somewhere a conductivity vc concentration table here in attachment look for your self if you can interpret tables




« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 17:00:33 pm by sebosfato »

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Ionic Resonance
« Reply #211 on: December 13, 2018, 20:39:13 pm »
the potassium nitrate i ordered just arrived...

i was thinking about the ionic resonance that we need to achieve and i guess is not that hard to detect it

i think we need to determine the impedance of the cell for ac signal (without coil) in function of the frequency.. and analyse the real and reactive parts of the current by the use of an oscilloscope... for that we need a signal that constantly vary in voltage like a triangle wave and analise the response of the current ..

there may be an ac frequency were for a certain concentration of ions the current will be reduced because of the resonance at the ions

this may be very sharp

so all that is needed is to determine the voltage concentration and frequency relationship

the higher is the concentration the closer the ions will be to each other and so the frequency in my view should be higher

ions in solution are equidistant in equilibrium but when we start pulsing it the ions get to move in the direction of the field applied to them since they have opposite charges and so as this equilibrium form an elastic bound they can resonate... there will be some loss due to the water resistance to their movement however.. heat..

the question than is what is the maximum displacement an ion  can have for a certain voltage?

the higher is the concentration of ions the higher will be the attraction for each other so harder will be to take them apart (higher frequency too)

so the ions have a minimum distance they can be from each other and this is when they are solid .. and there is a maximum distance they can be from each other when they are dilute

during this resonance they will be moving back and forth in opposite directions... an ion with higher mass will have a lower frequency and one with a low mass should have a higher frequency...

for example having potassium hydroxide in solution leaves us with mostly two ions frequency possible OH- having a mass of 17 and K+ with a mass of 39

this may not be much close to each other so there should be two distinct frequencies!

if the atoms have different mass size they will have different frequency this tells us that the H+ ions will have much higher speed and will effectively walk more distance.. in reality the H+ ions are not free in solution either they readily transform into H3O+ ions so the mass is 19g/mol close to the 17g/mol from OH-

the potassium and the nitrate ion are much heavier but they will have each one their movements too

so if we have potassium and the ph environment is neutral to more acid we do have ions of close mass and charge to oscillate you see the danger in here?

the nitrate ion is huge and weights 62g/mol and have twice the charge

the potassium ion have 39 mass

this will be some slower 





 






 

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #212 on: December 13, 2018, 21:24:38 pm »

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 609
Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #213 on: December 14, 2018, 04:49:59 am »
Ive yet to read the document but thanks for sharing....ya ever took apart a transistor like a 2n3055 and used it as like a solar cell ?
Something to think about as ions relax from resonace and emit energy and being able to detect it

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #214 on: December 14, 2018, 14:44:05 pm »
its a very interesting document talking about ac electrolysis

there is some graphs of the voltage in function of the current and at a certain current the voltage drops or peaks ...

it also claims that at higher current loads the phase angle get closer to 90



Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #215 on: December 14, 2018, 15:50:05 pm »
i think i found how to create a low voltage dc without diodes.. its based on pulsing a secondary (thick wire) with 3 different coils with a kind of 3 phase configuration.. 120 degree.. but where the coils are left to colapse during pulse off  this way there is aways going to be dc flow.. theoretically

i think high saturation like soft iron would be better...