Author Topic: Retry N1001  (Read 16764 times)

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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #192 on: December 06, 2018, 12:55:59 pm »
lets back to the subject

hydrogen and metal in water... they react ... hydrogen lose electrons and get absorbed on the surface of the metal giving to it a potential in reference to the solution of -1.23 v

when we get electrolysis happen this capacitive charge ruin the efficiency... because it requires 1,23 joules for each coulomb you try to transfer between the electrodes...

in my stupid opinion, if we really want to get cheap hydrogen we need to find a way to cancel this 1,23 volts difference while maintaining the electrolysis happening

applying 1,23 volts would result in 100% efficient electrolysis but i wont proceed because the capacitance is charged..

well in my opinion we just need to charge the anode with the same negative voltage somehow to be able to get a lower voltage between the capacitor plates and thereto be able to apply current without so much voltage...

the only way i´m seeing to do it would be to make the hydrogen charge the anode by arranging the anode over the cathode and so the bubbles are forced to pass thru it...

the anode could be platinum but if it were platinum hydrogen would combuste with the oxygen there being also generated making it glow red hot like the catalytic converter of your car.. so stan said that platinum could not be used as it would "breakdown under the conditions required for the operation of the fuel cell" that was something that have away puzzled me... how platinum would break down.. it does not, it makes hydrogen and oxygen reform! well i bet stailess steel wont!

i´m not sure if the electolyte must be acid or base but one of them should do something...

today i plan to do some experiments using aluminum to generate hydrogen into a hydrocloric solution and having one electrode over it to see the potential in reference to a paladium electrode that i have..

the main idea is to simple cancel the voltage that appear between anode and cathode..

the second goal is a manner to generate extremely low voltages at huge amps

i plan doing it with some sort of stepdown colapsing pulse transformer... the idea is to generate milivolts on the secondary and allow the collapse to get this milivolts into the volts range... a collapsing transformer will elevate the voltage until the current has a way to go and make thru the circuit..

other ways i see is witha faraday disk, or even a modified dc motor with permanent magnets and brush running at very low speed..

perhaps we could use gallium as a contact metal since its liquid at low temps...

a third way to generate this low voltage at high amps is to build a magnetohydrodynamic generator using gallium... so it can transform mechanical energy directly to low voltage at very high efficiency! the problem is that 20ml cost 100 dollars here and just to pump it would require some more amount...

to make a magneto hydrodynamic generator is not hard all you need is to force the galium into a magnetic channel having electrodes to capture the amps... the voltage is  proportional to the speed, lenght of the magnetic field / electrodes and magnetic field intensity...

the major problem is to design the system to have a nice flow of the galium at enough speed...

it can even convert electricity into a lower voltage electricity depending on the arrangement




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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #193 on: December 06, 2018, 13:10:46 pm »
one idea is to make the anode much bigger than the cathode or vice versa to see the differences...

i guess with a bigger anode it would be easier for it to get hit by the hydrogen and it stay there adsorbed without perturbing the electrolysis and causing problems of recombination...

perhaps would be interesting a thermal camera to see what goes into water.. anyone have one?

the document in attachment tells about using 100khz ac 6v to generate hydrogen and oxygen on both electrodes... check this out
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 14:59:11 pm by sebosfato »

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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #194 on: December 06, 2018, 15:36:45 pm »
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/aa/df/10/473b10bf48d3e1/US4303845.pdf

i think is a good time spend reading this patent...

it uses a manner to apply voltage as a potential energy in a manner where its not "consumed" check it out!

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Key Concepts
« Reply #195 on: December 07, 2018, 15:21:11 pm »
Step Down Collapsing Field Transformer

The main discovery i made in this world of science is the power of collapsing field.. when we charge a coil and open a switch the power will be dissipated all at one depending only on the load impedance to tell how long will be the discharge

a transformer can transform the impedance of a load to a source and is totally conservative

the collapsing or opening the switch is where the magic happen... when we close the switch the primary coils are going to get charged with current linearly with time assuming dc source when the current is interrupted it wants to keep going in the same direction so the voltage of the transformer is reversed to force the current to go

if there is a resistance the voltage developed will be dependent on the product of the current in the winding relative to the primary and the resistance. V=(R*I)

the power dissipated is what changes when you have W= R*I ^2=(R* I)*I or W = V * I so it tells that the more amps you put in a resistor more power you applied to it

when it comes to the water i believe we should start thinking smart

water has a low resistance when it is ionized with some base or acid.. what really is the problem is to generate enough low voltage high current and make it thru the water

If my theory is right about the fuel cell word in meyer concept my thoughts are that he may have found a way to really transform the water into a short circuit instead of literally a capacitor that starts leaking current over 1.23v
a short circuit can conduct currents at milivolts range

the units of voltage is Joules/ Coulomb meaning how much work done per unity of charge you made pass thru the load. the lower the voltage the lower is the energy to pass some current

the only fucking that prevents us from having enormous current at 1.23 volts applied is that the capacitance will subtract from this applied voltage so the effective applied voltage across the water is zero!

all the voltage is in a region of nano scale near the electrode

effectively there is 1.23 but it wont allow current to flow because the ions cannot win the barrier of capacitance created by the presence of the hydrogen at the negative electrode.. the hydrogen makes the electrode be more negative than the other electrode since it stay in the surface of the electrode in a liquid to gas ionized state leaving its electron available for the metal increasing its negative potential but also the hydrogen bubble becoming bigger will take the electron from the plate and get off as a neutral bubble ... haha if we let it

big question we were discussing earlier if we get two metals in water with different sizes and same material submerged totally in water what will be the voltage between them? i think we should start asking those questions



 






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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #196 on: December 07, 2018, 20:03:06 pm »
I just thought of another thing...

wouldnt it be possible to use a resistor and voltage source to stabilize the voltage of a point in a circuit??

For example we create two branches and put similar resistors for example at leas two resistors in series

in the middle of the two resistor points of the two branches will have the same voltage dont they?

could it be possible that we can simply use some voltage and current just to zero up the potential of the electrodes than apply pulsed ultra low voltage?


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Helo?
« Reply #197 on: December 07, 2018, 22:19:01 pm »
Its pretty boring to talk alone... does anyone understood anything about what i say?

I only see the view counts increase and nobody answer...

well

Here comes another.. regular electrolysis theoretically major limitation in current is not the distance between the electrodes..

but stan has the following figures... tube cells are better than plate and the longer the tubes are the greater the efficiency from what i see in his graphs

why would this be

well if the space is short the hydrogen have the chance to touch the anode and the longer it is more it can interact...

if the cell is placed horizontaly than being the outside tube the anode the hydrogen will be flowing over it all the way

« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 23:14:30 pm by sebosfato »

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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #198 on: December 07, 2018, 23:17:32 pm »
In attachment in the previous post you see the idea of using resistors to try to manipulate the potentials.. the idea would be to use a second circuit and perhaps be able to rise the potential of the cathodes to zero volts by external circuit
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 23:38:08 pm by sebosfato »

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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #199 on: December 08, 2018, 09:29:12 am »
i reply.....but i must say that i lost you here in this topic.....
Sorry. But thats just me. Plse go on if you have the feeling to be in the right direction.