Author Topic: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?  (Read 14105 times)

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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2015, 02:22:52 am »
Yup. I agree here with yr explanation.
Its called a potential difference, is it.
One pole with more or less electrons then the other.

Potential takes the form of an rf field.  The field causes electrons and other charged particles to move.  The potential field itself doesn't have any electrons.  It's just a signal.  A difference of electrons built up on the two plates is the static charge.  Meyer shows two forces, the static charges and the pulsating potential - even when one plate is grounded.

When referring to mini caps being charged, he certainly wasn't talking about adding electrons to the Oxygen.  That would be only electrolysis.  The charge is the potential that the valence electrons have to fall back to lower levels.  There is no change in the number of electrons his water molecule has.  So this charging isn't static.

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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2015, 09:37:01 am »
since starting thread I have been looking for forumals ... ... havent been kicking back waiting for answer to fall in my lap
I tried to find dissociation of hydronium .    hydroxide = easy!


http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Physical_Chemistry/Acids_and_Bases/Aqueous_Solutions/The_Hydronium_Ion

this site mentions hydronium increase = pH decrease

"Because hydronium- and hydroxide ions can “move without actually moving” and thus without having to plow their way through the solution by shoving aside water molecules as do other ions, solutions which are acidic or alkaline have extraordinarily high electrical conductivities."

kindve rings a bell about radio wave of the Kanzius guy

is it possible SM was dicing with pH from acid to base , electrically and using pH 7 as a non conductive point or zero point
Im talking high freq not slow chemistry level
also what do I know Im just throwing this in there

the article also mentions "holes and electrons" , no different than semi conductor talk

with hydronium I cant see what it would break down to , 11 proton , 10 electron ,therefore + ion , its heading for neg plate ..... :-\

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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2015, 10:48:04 am »
i would not like to put fire on the wood but actually meyer waveform is meaningless is simply a doubled frequency increasing in potential... there is 1 million manners of replicating this exact waveform and you still not apply the correct fields on water to make the molecule split apart...

when you show me your waveform you give me nothing... summing with your drawing where coil start and polarity confuse whoever try to look at it... Wasn't you that complained about my pencil made drawings? where is your dot convention? do you understand how you draw it?

its really sad to see so much confusion...

massive do you agree that for every atom species you want to ionize in that way you need to put one electron or take it out of water?

 

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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2015, 11:12:51 am »
since starting thread I have been looking for forumals ... ... havent been kicking back waiting for answer to fall in my lap
I tried to find dissociation of hydronium .    hydroxide = easy!


http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Physical_Chemistry/Acids_and_Bases/Aqueous_Solutions/The_Hydronium_Ion

this site mentions hydronium increase = pH decrease

"Because hydronium- and hydroxide ions can “move without actually moving” and thus without having to plow their way through the solution by shoving aside water molecules as do other ions, solutions which are acidic or alkaline have extraordinarily high electrical conductivities."

kindve rings a bell about radio wave of the Kanzius guy

is it possible SM was dicing with pH from acid to base , electrically and using pH 7 as a non conductive point or zero point
Im talking high freq not slow chemistry level
also what do I know Im just throwing this in there

the article also mentions "holes and electrons" , no different than semi conductor talk

with hydronium I cant see what it would break down to , 11 proton , 10 electron ,therefore + ion , its heading for neg plate ..... :-\

I'm with you on that as I don't think the hydronium ions will be broken down either as they are held together too strongly. Plus we already saw that in nature the hydroxide ion does in fact get broken down with lightening so I think us working together on this right now have our answer. The breakdown of the hydroxide ions is what produces the gas production in Meyer's technology as remember the hydrogen molecules contribute a red glow to make the over all glow violet when air gets ionized that has a high humidity to it.

Meyer also talks about the reaction lasting for a while after the system has been shut down and this could be due to the hydronium ions dumping their charge onto the hydroxide ions with enough energy to break their bonds. It's just a thought for now as I don't have the equipment to take a close look at this but perhaps I know someone that does. I'll give him a call and see if he'd like to test this out for us once I have everything up and running.

It was very interesting to see how they both move without moving thanks for the share very interesting stuff. You might find this study of interest: http://imnh.isu.edu/digitalatlas/hydr/basics/main/chmtxt.htm

This page also talks about hydronium being very stable: http://www1.lsbu.ac.uk/water/ionisoh.html and a lot about the hydroxide ions.

I think we are in uncharted territory here as this reaction would need to be run and then it's Ph balance tested in a before and after test and against time to see it the reaction stabilizes as the gas production decreases to see if in fact there is a build up of hydronium ions in the water bath. I might need to pick up a good ph tester for this but the good doctor I know has all the good stuff lets just hope he is willing to test things out for us.
Shalom,
TGS
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 11:51:03 am by TGS »

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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2015, 12:41:17 pm »
massive do you agree that for every atom species you want to ionize in that way you need to put one electron or take it out of water?

yes 



I shouldve just put pen to paper instead of searching

*Ignoring neutrons to make it less clutter

POSITIVE plate  < OH- anion is attracted (9p 10e)      = 2 e taken by Postive plate
                           O monatomic released  (8p 8e)
                           H+ cation repelled        (1p)

NEGATIVE plate < H3O+ cation is attracted (11p 10e)     = 1 e  given to H+ from OH-, 1e given to H+from H3O+
                           H+ monatomic released  (1p 1e)
                           H2O formed                   (10p 10e)

this is similar to what george wiseman has with sodium hydroxide but with out sodium Hydroxide....., I couldnt find any break down formula any where of straight water


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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2015, 12:44:30 pm »
^^^ thats 2 for 2 electrons which is the same ol electrolysis , but what if the water molecule wasnt allowed to reform

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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2015, 13:34:05 pm »
in my "opinion" you are going off track ... i doubted for long time about what meyer was doing and saying and i also thought he messed  around with the ions and also auto ionization propriety of water... i considered all that... thru the way... i learned some physiics which helped guiding better my intuition... but today what i can see is that meyer was indeed looking into splitting the molecule... the ions were only rocks in his way only... thats one view..

in my view as i already declared... the atoms in the molecules simply as Stan also claimed become independent forming monoatomic atoms by action of the electrical polarization process that it is subjected than subsequently forms with another atoms diatomic molecules and exit as a neutral gas... when electron extraction circuit is implemented the gas will exit charged... theres no net charge in the water molecule....

simple as that...

its possible that the some gas come out ionized from the electrical polarization process with polarity according to the switch off programation. this will be a very small percenteage of the outcoming gas since im trying to not dealing with exchange of electrons... that wold be just the lost from voltage zones...

as meyer lately said and nobody could see i clear it up to you the next step would be electron extraction... right?

my question to you and its something meyer already mentioned... does water accept any other electrons?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 15:45:02 pm by sebosfato »

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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2015, 15:10:24 pm »
^^^ thats 2 for 2 electrons which is the same ol electrolysis , but what if the water molecule wasnt allowed to reform

From my observations nothing comes together in the field thus giving the chance for hydrogen and oxygen gas production all I need to do now is run the experiment and check to see if the hydronium concentration went up and that will be all the proof we need. I must also check to see how long it takes the water to go back into equilibrium with a ph of 7. Thanks for everything as this puts us clearly on the right path as now I know how to calculate the hydronium ion concentration from the ph readings. This reaction should push the system out of equilibrium as why else would Meyer say it takes time to stop producing gas after the power is turned off?

As for anyone with lots of doubt I must ignore you now as I haven't the time to lay it all out on the line for you to understand just what is going on anymore.

TGS