Author Topic: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?  (Read 14106 times)

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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2015, 03:53:52 am »

besides any process water goes through , water still has the natural property to self ionize itself

2 H20 <> OH-  +  H3O+

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-ionization_of_water

so either an applied process over rides this natural property OR
self ionization is an integral part of the applied process OR
the process is the natural property Amplified

working with nature instead of against ,  just a thought

I think you are right as that is why Meyer's technology doesn't take up large amounts of current to break the bonds of the water molecules as it is doing something the water molecules have a tendency to do all by themselves. Ionization is the key we just had to start asking the right questions.

(http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y320/h2opower/2015-07-27_182645_zpshlpc68n3.png)

Here we can see that a very localized field can break the bonds of the Hydroxide ion as it is a single bond and fairly weak. The VIC transformer places a very localized field on the water molecules that are in between the voltages zones. Now if we take this a step further as I have shown in this drawing:
(http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y320/h2opower/TheElectricalPolarizationProcess-1.png)
We can see that the exciter array is pulling the water molecules apart in very much the same way as when the water molecules do randomly all by themselves so I think it's safe to say the process is in fact dealing with IONIZATION as it all makes a lot of sense when looking at the properties of water and comparing it to Meyer's technology.

Shalom,
TGS


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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2015, 17:00:16 pm »
Hello, why in your analysis the point of great potential diference is in the middle of the electrodes?

in your theory the gas is generated right in middle of the cell TGS?

in my point of view correct me please if i'm wrong... the cell has the greater intensity field right over the surface of the inner electrode.. and it decays over distance because of screening of charge and polarization effects...

so how can be the center of the cell the point with greater potential difference?

according to physics parallel plates have linear electric field strength distribution while concentric case has stronger near the smaller electrode...

thanks


ps... in attachment my "differential" wave forms ... across cell... pulse in.... Va ... Vb...


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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2015, 18:21:00 pm »
Hello, why in your analysis the point of great potential diference is in the middle of the electrodes?

in your theory the gas is generated right in middle of the cell TGS?

in my point of view correct me please if i'm wrong... the cell has the greater intensity field right over the surface of the inner electrode.. and it decays over distance because of screening of charge and polarization effects...

so how can be the center of the cell the point with greater potential difference?

according to physics parallel plates have linear electric field strength distribution while concentric case has stronger near the smaller electrode...

thanks


ps... in attachment my "differential" wave forms ... across cell... pulse in.... Va ... Vb...

It's because water is being used as a dielectric material. Many working on this technology have noticed that there is gas being generated right in the center of the high voltage potential zones. When you add these experimental observations to Meyer's words telling us each water molecules acts like a tiny capacitor then right in the center of the cell will be the greatest plain of potential difference as each little water molecule capacitor will carry the voltage over to the next water molecule as remember they are all in a straight line between the electrodes.

The drawing is based on my observations of the many experiments I have performed and helped me reason out just how the process was taking place between the cells on a molecular level with IONIZATION in mind as after all water, no mater how pure, will do this all on it's own naturally. The drawing is only an illustration designed to further my knowledge on the inner workings of this technology and could be incorrect.

Other things to note is this assumes the B+ and B- voltages are equal for if they are not equal then that center will move to the side with the greatest voltage. This is why when people only have a positive voltage shown on the scope the water will heat up as they will be pushing amps through the water bath for the magnetic current quenching effect of the opposed chokes wont be balanced.

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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2015, 14:06:42 pm »
its nice to see how you look at it. Like i told you, i see it in a different way... but that should not stop you..

do you know that the ions are equally distributed thru the volume? 

another question? is that point in the middle of your "cell" the zero volts? i mean you are considering to be applying B+ and B- at same time?

keep going
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 15:05:07 pm by sebosfato »

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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2015, 19:17:27 pm »
The water molecules can be charged both ways so don't think of it as a zero voltage but one side carrying the positive charge and the other side carrying the negative charge and they meet in the middle.

In learning how to read the scope shoots you must look at the near vertical lines as those are the times when the positive and negative voltages are taking place at near the same time.
(http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y320/h2opower/personalpics009_zpscf31888c.jpg)
These times are taking place very fast much faster than the relaxation time for water. This is the proper way to read these scope shoots as the times are not equal but near equal and the water molecules are at those times subject to the maximum potential difference that the VIC transformers are making. The frequency for this scope shot is around 5k Hz and that's 5000 times per second. The reading on the oscilloscope give the viewer a false impression of time sort of like riding in a car at high speeds with the windows rolled up. As long as you keep you hands inside of the car you really have no sense of just how fast you are moving but as soon as you put your hand outside then you can feel the speeds you are traveling at.

It is at these near vertical lines where the potential voltages is to be measured at as due to the blocking diode the positive goes to the B+ plate and the negative goes to the B- plate and as you can see the times are almost the same. Remember the blocking diode is acting as a switch so even though it looks like an A/C wave form it is not as the blocking diode will not allow it to be an A/C waveform. So, as you can see it's not good enough to have the ability to see the wave forms produced by the VIC transformers being placed on the exciter array but one must also know and/or understand how to interpret the data they are seeing. This is where I am forced to ignore a lot of people as they simply don't have the necessary education to be able to to solve a technology such as this. If they don't do things the right way they are of little use to me and to this technology as far as figuring it out goes. Following the scientific method is a must for this technology as it has a lot of original ideas in it thus one can't look up a lot of things in any of our books of antiquity. So far I have found three original ideas and created a fourth one on my own. Ideas like these make it very hard for anyone to back engineer this technology as these are totally new ideas and the only way to figure them out is with the use of the scientific method as it forces people to run many experiments.

So, in answering your question the water molecules take the voltage from the plates to the center if the voltages of the B+ and B- voltage fields are equal as water can be charged both ways.

I hope this allows you to understand the need to get the right equipment to do the job as if you don't you are truly flying in the blind on this technology and I am forced to not accept any of your work as it doesn't follow the guidelines the scientific method sets for us all to follow. If anyone refuses to follow the scientific method then I must refuse to accept their work as that is just the way things have to be. I don't make many assumptions as I rely on experimental data and observations to make choices as that is the way the scientific method allows me to move forwards with this technology. I hope this lets everyone understand how I work and why I seem to be so strict all the time.

Shalom,
TGS

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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2015, 22:35:59 pm »
The thing Mr. Ed is forgetting - and will continue to ignore (unscientifically) - is that there is no such thing as 'negative potential'.  All potential is positive.  Negative values are based on the convenience of assigning the earth's surface potential as 'zero'.  With positive hv potential on one electrode, and much less positive potential on the other, the strongest potential field will still be at the surface of the stronger electrode.

If he's talking about charge, in the sense that presence of electrons makes a negative charge while absence of electrons makes a positive charge, then his 'dual charged mini capacitor' theory violates Stan Meyer's stipulation of minimal current.  Without current, one side of a capacitor can't develop a negative electron charge.

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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2015, 23:48:47 pm »
The thing Mr. Ed is forgetting - and will continue to ignore (unscientifically) - is that there is no such thing as 'negative potential'.  All potential is positive.  Negative values are based on the convenience of assigning the earth's surface potential as 'zero'.  With positive hv potential on one electrode, and much less positive potential on the other, the strongest potential field will still be at the surface of the stronger electrode.

If he's talking about charge, in the sense that presence of electrons makes a negative charge while absence of electrons makes a positive charge, then his 'dual charged mini capacitor' theory violates Stan Meyer's stipulation of minimal current.  Without current, one side of a capacitor can't develop a negative electron charge.

Yup. I agree here with yr explanation.
Its called a potential difference, is it.
One pole with more or less electrons then the other.

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Re: Does anyone know what the reaction is , when theres no electrolyte?
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2015, 00:58:20 am »
(http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y320/h2opower/10_5VOLTAGECHARINGEFFECT.png)

As said in Meyer's work a "difference of potential across the water gap." I really don't think I need to explain myself any further do I? as Meyer puts it in writing for us right here. The actual waveform looks a little different but I just explained to everyone how to interpret their data when looking at these wave forms. With that being said let us look at this waveform again and notice that at first there is a potential difference that is negative and positive but as time goes on the negative voltage actually turns into positive voltage which is just a difference of positive voltage, correct?

(http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y320/h2opower/Maxswaveform_zps9f62fd25.png)

Now that you all know how to go about reading and interpreting the experimental data you can see that this waveform shows a failure to get the maximum potential difference as the negative side isn't charging up. Meyer has it clearly marked showing a B+ and B- voltage and in this screen shot the negative voltage potential doesn't start to build up. After comparing what the two of us did differently the load that Max placed on the VIC transformer is a lot greater than the load I placed on the VIC transformer and the result of doing so was a loss in the negative voltage potential or B- voltage.

Now thanks to Massive we should all be able to see that Meyer's work is that of Ionization as that is a property of the water molecules have and this technology makes it so it is not such a random event as the conditions are made favorable by placing water molecules in a high voltage potential difference field.

Shalom,
TGS