### Author Topic: The Right Question?  (Read 28393 times)

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##### Re: The Right Question?
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2015, 15:38:37 pm »
somewhere a year ago he said he put it to work than after he burned his coils he never got it to work again,,,

somehow also from what i understood the resonance of the wires when open end it causes a reflection of that wave toward the source.. it will happen for a termination of higher impedance than the impedance of the choke... if it was shorted the wave also reflects but it does like an inductor does.. with reversed polarity... a pulse of reverse polarity would make the voltage zone to decrease its magnitude... even if it comes at the other electrode...is that correct?

I have a really good news...

i thought my 40kv probe was burned... it kind of don't show 40Mohm as before.(it never did i confused).. ... the new differential probe has 40Moms between inputs and 20Mohm between inputs and ground.. this 40kv probe has 1000Mohm resistance... its output impedance is 1,1Mohm that when in parallel with the resistance of a 10Mohm input dmm makes exact 1Mohm... so the total resistance is 1GOhm

the only reading of resistance i have at the 1000:1 40kv probe is 1,1Mohm across the leads that should go to the multimeter..

i was planing to use this probe to monitor the voltage potential of the cell while the other probe would be connected across the cell to get the potential diference.

the nicer thing about it is that i just discovered i can connect it to a oscilloscope too but the division would be 2000 instead of 1000...

the problem is it would need some compensation to get the right wave form.. my model is the tt hvp40 from testec like this on farnel anyone has ideas of how to make a compensation ckt for it?

thats because the oscilloscope has 1Mohm input impedance and together with the 1,1Mohm output impedance of the probe makes the impedance around 580k so it won't be 1000 to 1 anymore... im thinking to make a bnc connector with a trimpot to fine adjust the probe voltage reading...

Thanks for the explanation.

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##### Re: The Right Question?
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2015, 09:50:50 am »
Hey Steve,

i opened my 40kv probe and added a bnc cable to it together with the other cables... this way i can connect the probe to the oscilloscope and the dmm at same time... the only problem is when i connect to the oscilloscope it become a 2000:1 and on the multimeter the voltage show is some less than half what was before,,,

I also found that my osciloscope with this probe is picking up a lot of noise.. so i decided to feed the osciloscope with 240v instead of 120v so i can try to neutralize the ground of the osciloscope

here in brazil we receive in our homes 3 cables basically 1 neutral thats is grounded at the input of the house... and two phases that forms 240v between them and 120v between them and neutral (ground)

the problem is that the power plugs with 3 plugs here are missused in the sense that the ground is usually cut off and not connected at all and so we usualy have one neutral and one phase for comomn house app like tv and refrigerator... for the shower we use the 240v and for more heavy applications...

I decided than to switch all my measuring rig to 240v so i can re-ground the neutral close to my rig and have all the 3 pins of the power plugs in all the equipments correctly connected..

is that correct?

can it cause a problem? ground loop?..?

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##### Re: The Right Question?
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2015, 17:01:48 pm »
Well

new probe burned....

i was just starting to work on my new grounded system but i got news that my power suplyu of the new probe burned...

i was so angry that i decided to ignore any warranty and open it to fix it today!

in the manual it says it needs to work with only this power supply... so before open  i tried to get another one similar and tried... the power supply that came with the probe is rated 300ma 9v 2.7va  i tried a 200ma one and it dont turn on the probe (of couse i checked the polarity before try)

i have noticed that it was heating up a lot... the probe and the dc  power sypply... when i noticed it stoped working it was pretty hot...

so in the end i opened the smal power supply and found that the windings are ok... i just burned a component caled AUPO 115C 2A 250v

the problem of it burning i guess come from the fact  that its rated at 230 v not 240v so i should probably add a resistance in series with the primary or something

i would like to hear any ideas from you

seems a termal fuse...  well i will substitute it for a normal fuse and it should go ok now... althought is a good idea something that turn it off if the temperature rise too much thought...

the resistance of the primary seems to be 1kohm

if at the secondary it has 300ma at the primary it shouldhave 230v/9 =25 times less current...  something like 12ma

so if i need to get 5% less voltage into it i would need to add 1kohm resistor in series... is it correct?

will it work?

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##### Re: The Right Question?
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2015, 23:45:29 pm »
You burned up the Pintek DP-15K Differential Probe 35MHz 15kV? I simply don't understand what type of problems you are having as with these probes you just plug them in and change the settings on the oscilloscope to match with the probe output settings. Say for example if you have it on the x100 setting then you make sure the setting on the oscilloscope is also set at the x100 setting. If you put it to the x1000 setting on the probe then again you set the oscilloscope to the x1000 setting. So I don't see just went wrong with your probe to the point where you would then burn up a new probe that I have been using for over 3 years now without incident.

You already know my feelings on this and you go and break the dame thing?! As I look out at those working on this technology I can help but to get a total sense of hopelessness as the people I see trying to solve this technology simply aren't up for the task at hand. Then you go and violate the warranty instead of doing the right thing and shipping the probe back to the company to try and get a new one. These aren't the actions of a smart man but of a complete idiot! Not a single shot of the waveform you are getting to your exciter array. Nothing! When all you had to do was hook the dame thing up to it! And you wonder why people like me get so upset all the time? You force people like me to work in total isolation as even when you are given the same tools to work with you haven't the smarts to be able to make use of them so that we can finally compare apples to apples.  I can't even begin to put into words my disappointment in all of this as not a single picture of the waveform you are placing on your exciter array came from this endeavor.

We don't open up a precision instrument and try to fix it as the percent error they give us mustn't be compromised as if it is compromised then it is useless in the world of science and any data you would then gain from it would be simply tossed out. I don't make up the rules I just follow them. I follow them so that any work I do choose to show other scientist will be acceptable in their eyes as they can follow my work if they so choose to do so with the same percent error calculations and/or expectations. So, now we are back to comparing apples to oranges and I am simply not in the mood to be wasting my time in that vein approach anymore.

You and I simply couldn't even compare one apple together as not a single photo was produced from which we could have actually compared notes came of all of this money being tossed at the problem so that we could finally be able to compare apples to apples together. Oh, well no one can't say that I didn't try to help.

Take care,
TGS

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##### Re: The Right Question?
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2015, 02:47:53 am »
Hey Tgs, its the programed obsolescence... it was only a thermal fuse inside the transformer (power supply) (the idiot here found out)

simply its rated for 230v and output 9v 300ma... here in brasil we get 120v or 240v rms from the plug... so the problem is i was hiting it at 10v over its rated voltage.... every other equipments is rated from 90 to 240v today...

basically inside the black box there is a transformer a full bridge rectifier and a 25v electrolitic capacitor... the voltage regulator may be inside the probe body itself...

as its supplied with a litle overvoltage its heating a litle over what its normal and so the transformer as heats up lowers the saturation bmax thereto driving the trafo into a saturation that increases the heat rapidly and the fuse blows... probably would be nicer from pintek side to add a ptc instead...

so i didnt change anything... for now i will just add a small resistor and monitor how it comes..

but i want to get in contact with pintek to know if i can have another one rated for my country wall voltage... but really i wont wait anymore...

i have a even more shoking news.. just after the probe burned... i burned my old oscilloscope... kind of bad luck minute.. i connected it mistakenly to the 240v before switching the damn voltage switch and forgot it... when the probe suply burned i turned it on and the fuse made puff...

i opened the old oscilloscope and found the problem...i will need to substitute a transistor initially... (i found a rotine for repairing this oscope.. ) more time wasted...

the good news is i added a trim pot to the 40kv probe before the bnc cable gets out of the case...500kohm and i was able to make a fine adjust of the reading... using the other probe while it was yet working as reference..

i´m a litle sad now... it  took my peace for a moment...   uff

yes man you helped a lot and i thank you for that...

just the things are as they are... hope theres no one making vodoo of me.. hahah

ps my grounding system worked really nice... now the noise level is very very lower... and i get no electric shocks when touching anything...

this was the good side of the learning event of today...

The question in my mind is how to create a ground loop?

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##### Re: The Right Question?
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2015, 04:51:43 am »
i tried ading a 330ohm resistor in series with the primary the voltage drop across it is 18v... the voltage going into the power supply is 245vrms!

still heating up a lot... its output is around 17 volts with probe turned off and 5,7v with the probe turned on...

i guess would be better to contact pintek and ask them...

i noticed now that the voltages indicating in the 200x and 2000x are different now...

i´m thinking about geting a 200ma fuse and make a 9v dc regulator to feed it already a clean dc with enough current but still protected..

inside the probe there seems to be an amplifier with output 50ohm impedance.. .so it must be heating inside because of it... transistors like to heats

the problem is the power supply should provide a limited voltage current source to impeed it from blowing under abnormal conditions...right?

i really not planing using the warrianty of this so soon.. i prefere to get to know whats inside and how to make it work.. .

my osciloscope too for example... it burned... even if i have to find what burned..
i´m thinking here... if i´m not able to change a simple transistor inside it and make it work again i´m not going to be able to make a fuel cell work.... its important sometimes for me some challenge..
if i cannot make my own power suplies... either..

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##### Re: The Right Question?
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2015, 06:14:19 am »
I'm sorry for all of your bad luck but it leaves me all alone again. The way the differential probes work is they are not actually hooked up to a ground at all but are floating which is a must for measuring this technology as the VIC sets up an isolated circuit that is actively seeking a ground.

I learned this well when I was working on the 8xa circuit as if you hook up the normal probes from the oscilloscope it will trip the home circuit breaker. A good friend of mines told me how to fix the problems I was having and suggested that I pick up a differential probe. Once I did all of my problems where over and I was able to keep on going with my work while being able to see what it was I was doing. I knew that I could not make good measurements only using one of the probe leads and if I wanted any help from my college friends I had to present them with quality work.

I hope that you are able to get the needed tools for the job as if you don't your out until you do. Sorry to hear all of this bad news as it just means we've lost another inventor taking an honest look at this technology.
Take care and I hope that your luck takes a turn for the better.
TGS

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##### Re: The Right Question?
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2015, 07:53:57 am »
Man this probe is fantastic, for the while it worked i could testify that, unfortunately i had this supply problem but hope to solve it tomorow... i was doing many many stuff to be able to work with the probe in the correct way than it happend...  tomorow i will go to a place they sell many different types of powersuplies i will try to ask them why this one burned... maybe i can have one rated for my house voltage... another thing that i noticed is that here we have 60Hz and the powersuplly was rated for 50 hz too... driving it with a higher frequency changes the power and impedance of the transforner this should reduce some little the output voltage for the same current consume for instance...

i just thought of something... maybe i could make a sort of regulation of the input voltage using a simple stepdown transformer connected in series to buck the source voltage a little to feed the transformer with a lower voltage.... i would give it a try....

at the probe it tells it want 9v 200ma

the power supply was 9v 300ma 50Hz 2,7va rated, the only ground of this probe come from the oscilloscope thats why i had to improove all the ground here...

i was thinking i could make a 9v regulated power supply and add a 200ma fuse or something... or maybe a current limiter...something that restrict the current in case of short...