Author Topic: Do we not forget something here? Meyer Injectors  (Read 5997 times)

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Do we not forget something here? Meyer Injectors
« on: December 19, 2013, 15:40:48 pm »
Dear all,

The injectors of Meyer are mounted directly on the engine, is it.
How hot will they become?
600 degrees Celcius at least, i suppose.
So, water will vapourize instandly inside that injector, even before we did something magical with VIC's electrolysis etc etc...
What can we do with that knowledge?



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Re: Do we not forget something here? Meyer Injectors
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2013, 02:21:50 am »
If the water vaporizes instantly, it may form super heated steam.  If it does, we can use a steam extractor to pull in even more water, which becomes the type of steam which can drive a steam engine.  Or less.  Depends on the degree of aspiration, and the amount and velocity of the instant steam.  At the very least, we can use this to adjust the burn rate.

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Re: Do we not forget something here? Meyer Injectors
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2013, 12:50:33 pm »
You got a point!

Electrolysis or whatever reaction to liberate hydrogen and oxygen require a change in entropy, and this mean that if heat is provided the reaction can occur at much lower threshold voltage.

I'm not sure if the tip of the plug will hold that much temperature, specially because water is being insert into it.

My friend mechanic said that they use to inject water into the engine to increase the power in the 80's here, but only a very small amount because otherwise the engine would heat up too much and breakdown. just water

They argue that gasoline serves also as a coolant to allow the normal operation of the engine. I doubt it.

The point is if you insert water at static pressure during the peak of pressure of the engine this may be true because of the increased pressure. but the water should be applied to the wfc injector at at least maybe 12 Bar for today engines.

So we should need a power supply for that. so follow me in my thinking and help me find out why it could not work please !




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Re: Do we not forget something here? Meyer Injectors
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2013, 03:28:28 am »
If we need a power supply to test lower voltage electrolysis with change in entropy we could put a heating coil around part of the injector.  I made a small foundry with a 1500 W. cone shaped heating element with a light bulb base.  This would be around two Hp on the input.  Add another kW for the electrolysis, then see how much heat comes out the jet nozzle at the end.  I won't be surprised if this heat is greater than you'd get just using the same power input for electrolysis to burn.  The screw base on the heater element can come off and the cone can be fastened to the central injector pipe with furnace cement.  Then all of this can be put in a small clay flower pot, filled with aluminum oxide pellets and sealed, top and bottom, around the pipe, with more silicate cement.  The output end of the injector should transition to a venturi, and a crude one of these can be made from the top half of a Chung King soy sauce bottle.  I'm building a bottle cutter right now and I may try something like this too.  Seems like a good idea.

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Re: Do we not forget something here? Meyer Injectors
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2013, 14:19:54 pm »
there are less hydrogen bonds the higher the temperature , ice has 100%, hydrogen bond in water is about 400kj/mol if I remember correctly .. so less energy input for higher temperature.

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Re: Do we not forget something here? Meyer Injectors
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2013, 00:47:43 am »
Hope this Helps:


Bond Energy

For any particular chemical bond, say the covalent bond between hydrogen and oxygen, the amount of energy it takes to break that bond is exactly the same as the amount of energy released when the bond is formed. This value is called the bond energy.
There are many forms of energy:•electrical
•mechanical
•chemical
but all forms are ultimately converted into heat. So it is convenient for biologists to measure energy in units of heat. The unit we shall use most often is the kilocalorie (kcal): the amount of heat needed to warm 1 liter of water 1 degree Celsius.
Link to discussion of the international system of units used in scientific work.

The kilocalorie is also the unit used to describe the energy content of foods. It is the "Calorie" used on food labels.
It takes a net of 118 kcal to decompose 2 moles of H2O into its elements. Actually it takes more than 118 kcal to decompose the water into its atoms, but some of the energy is given back as the atoms immediately bond together to form molecules of hydrogen and oxygen.
Let's look at the numbers.
•The bond energy of the H-O bond is 110 kcal.
•The bond energy of H-H bonds is 103 kcal.
•The bond energy of the O=O bonds is 116 kcal.
•The decomposition of 2 molecules of water requires breaking 4 H-O bonds and thus the input of 440 kcal.
•The formation of 2 moles of hydrogen yields 206 kcal (2 x 103).
•The formation of 1 mole of oxygen yields 116 kcal.
•The difference between◦the energy released (206 + 116 = 322 kcal) and
◦the energy consumed (4 x 110 = 440 kcal)

•gives the net energy consumed = 118 kcal.
Where has the energy gone?
It is now chemical energy stored in the bonds of the hydrogen and oxygen molecules. The energy stored in this reaction is called free energy because it is still available to do work. It is useful to have a symbol for free energy, and we shall use the letter G (in honor of Josiah Willard Gibbs who developed the concept of free energy).

What is free energy?

It is energy that can be harnessed to do work. The water stored behind a dam has free energy. When allowed to fall through a turbine, it can generate electricity (another form of free energy).

But for biologists, the most interesting form of free energy is the energy stored in chemical bonds. It, too, can be harnessed to do work. When you lift a weight, you are using the free energy stored in the bonds of food molecules to run a machine — your skeletal muscles.
The conversion of free energy to work is never 100% efficient. As you contract your muscles, much of the free energy of your fuel is given off as heat. It is no longer free; there is no way you can harness the warmth of your muscles to accomplish biologically useful work.
A change in free energy is depicted by the letter G preceded by the Greek Delta (Δ).
By convention, we indicate the storage of free energy with a plus sign. So, our reaction is expressed:
2H2O -> 2H2 + O2, Δ G = +118 kcal.
You may have had a chemistry professor ignite a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. It not, simply accept my word that the result is a dramatic explosion. The equation for this chemical reaction is the reverse of the one we have been studying and is expressed as
2H2 + O2 -> 2H2O

And, as the explosion suggests, this time a release of energy occurs. In fact, the free energy change is once again 118 kcal. This is because it took only 322 kcal to break the H-H and O=O bonds, and 440 kcal were liberated by the 4 moles of H-O bonds that were formed. (The igniting spark provided the initial input of energy; the surplus from the reaction then provided what was needed to get all the other molecules to react.)
We express the fact that energy came out of the reacting system by putting a minus sign before Δ G.
2H2 + O2 -> 2H2O, Δ G = -118 kcal.
These chemical reactions may not seem very "biological" to you, but in fact, they are good models for the reactions at the very heart of life itself.

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Re: Do we not forget something here? Meyer Injectors
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2013, 03:55:23 am »
This is all very good, but if we define free energy as energy which is available to do work, then we can also consider sub quantum heat from the H, after it's been broke out of the water, and as it impacts along the inside of the waveguide due to the voltage pulses.  This would add kcal's to the output.

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Re: Do we not forget something here? Meyer Injectors
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2013, 17:47:28 pm »
well I maybe ask a real chemist but when atoms are in E or B field the orbit expands something like dipole-dipole forces called stark forces or zeeman forces.. that is evident because the lines of emission change when this happens. And because the lines of emission are changed the frequencies of the atom also change... the frequency that the bond will oscillate also change.. so maybe by using natural magnets the frequency required for a forced oscillation will be lower hence energy required to break them lower.