Author Topic: EEC the mission  (Read 9684 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: EEC the mission
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2013, 15:46:28 pm »
the reason is very simple charge distribution

Ok if he had a resistive choke he could cancel the induced voltage with the resistive voltage to sum up to zero at a point.. but shold it work?

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: EEC the mission
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2013, 17:19:39 pm »
I'm thinking about using candles parafin and pvc  tubes because its cheap just for a trial test

I think the best aproach anyay could be high dielectric constants ..

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: EEC the mission
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2013, 05:23:30 am »
I think that i understood a manner to ionize the air but restricting the current... Its very simple! i'm thinking about the reason for the fact that at 30kv in a van de graf a current start to flow because of corona discharge. So if you think about the reason why it happen is simply because the electric fields act on the air ionizing it but as the electrode is metal it steal one electron from the air for example consuming power and giving the air a positive charge. So if you simply cover the van de graf with wax its not going to be able to conduct electricity but the electric field is going to still there so as the ions separated around it, and van de graph will keep charging to higher voltage... for example.

In the case of the EEC the important is to understand that charge conservation must hold true. So if you think the problem it seems really that the electric field does indeed work separating the ions, and the work required to generate the ions comes from background radiation and self-ionization processes.   

 

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Sr. member
  • ***
  • Posts: 440
  • let the voltage do the work
Re: EEC the mission
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2013, 20:48:08 pm »
if it works like you say then all positive ions will go to low electric potential area , same for negative charges and this will restrict the flow of electricity through the medium because there wont be enough negative charge carriers on one side but you need very high voltage in order to do it or else charges will not redistribute .. I havent really understanded your thinking so I may just say stupid things.. ahhaha that's what the internet is for.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 23:29:40 pm by geon »

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: EEC the mission
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2013, 01:44:34 am »
I see your point... is should be this way if it were a static condition. There to the charges create a screening effect that reduce the electric field...

In my idea, not only its being constantly step charging, but also its being driven by the pump that mechanically (physically) separate the ions. The thing is that if you analyze it, than you see that the ions separation is being performed by the electric fields mostly...   

 

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: EEC the mission
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2013, 05:54:02 am »
thoughts:

If we apply an electric  field a dielectric will act to reduce the electric field proportional to the  dielectric constant.
 
So if we had vacuum and applied 81kv and the electrodes were 1mm apart than there was originally 81MV/mm E field. if we inser water there between than we get 1kv for a constant charge in the electrodes.

The problem with water and metal electrodes is that this are able to exchange electrons with the ions present in water therefore they get discharged in expense of generating H2 and O2 by electrolysis.

So if we find a situation where the voltage drops more than the 81 times being it water for example, than something else might be happening... The reason is that a dielectric should not conduct electrons nor ions at all. So real world is different than ideal world we are used to learn at university... The reason water is not a good dielectric when it has metal electrodes immersed into it is that it consume energy by letting the electric field do work while by letting amps transfer ( not able to restrict the flow of amps... 


I'm not sure but probably is possible to test it with a multimeter and map the function of the electric field around the electrodes....
« Last Edit: May 24, 2013, 05:32:24 am by sebosfato »

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
correction
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2013, 05:50:50 am »
Earlier in this thread i posted that may have reduced my credibility hahaha

 stated that the farther the ions are from each other the greater is the force of attraction ... well i don't know where i was with my head that night

actually the farther they are the weaker is the field and it decreases with the square of the distance... so Once the ions get separated from each other it won't take too much work to separate them further...

is it correct now?

F=k*q*Q/dˆ2

E=F/q= Q*k/dˆ2

I think i was confusing with electric potential and sincerely i way too tired these times...


Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: EEC the mission
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2013, 05:55:13 am »
Potential energy can be defined as the capacity for doing work which arises from position or configuration. In the electrical case, a charge will exert a force on any other charge and potential energy arises from any collection of charges. For example, if a positive charge Q is fixed at some point in space, any other positive charge which is brought close to it will experience a repulsive force and will therefore have potential energy. The potential energy of a test charge q in the vicinity of this source charge will be:
where k is Coulomb's constant.(http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/imgele/elpe1.gif)

SUPOSE  two positive charges are than very close together than their repulsion force is big and they have the greatest potential energy possible//

(http://regentsprep.org/Regents/physics/phys03/apotdif/charwork.gif)

 if they are allowed to move they will move to increase the distance thereto reducing the force and the potential since they should separate until it reach infinity than its potential energy reduces if the distance increases but what about opposite charges + - ?

The closer they are the greater is the attraction force...

(http://regentsprep.org/Regents/physics/phys03/apotdif/potwork.gif)
« Last Edit: May 24, 2013, 06:30:02 am by sebosfato »