Author Topic: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps (CONFIRMED)  (Read 23420 times)

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Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps (CONFIRMED)
« on: September 20, 2012, 16:35:48 pm »
This morning I had an inspiration.  Maybe I'm being too simplistic, but
it only seems to make sense.

Let's look back to the basic properties of a basic transformer.  Power
in equals power out.  Let's take a 1:10 step up transformer as an
example.  12V 1A in equals 120V 0.1A out.  If it's a 1:100 transformer,
12V 1A in equals 1200V 0.01A out.  No matter what way you look at it,
the power must be equal.

We all know that the secondary, the choke coil and the amp inhibiting
coil are actually all secondaries to as they share a common core.

Assuming:
1.  Two coils with the exact same number of turns but are configured to
oppose each other will cancel each others fields and thereby each others
current
2.  The higher the number of turns, the lower the current on the secondary
3.  The lower the number of turns, the higher the current on the secondary
4.  The VIC has 3 secondaries

Configure (assuming 12V, 1A primary):
1.  Choke coil as 1:100 with primary coil; choke coil should be 1200V, 0.01A
2.  "Secondary" coil as 1:10 with primary coil;  "secondary" coil should
be 120V, 0.1A
3.  Amp restricting coil (which is reverse polarity) as ? with primary coil

I hope you all see where I am going with this by now.  In theory, by
step 3 the cumulative current is now at 0.11A.  This means that we need
to configure the amp restricting coil to step up from the primary at the
point where it will return 0.11A to restrict all current flow.

Since power in equals power out, the step up to get 0.11A from 12V and
1A would be 12W/0.11A which is 109.1V which is a ratio of 1:9.1

So, the three steps to complete restrict current becomes:

Configure (assuming 12V, 1A primary):
1.  Choke coil as 1:100 with primary coil; choke coil should be 1200V, 0.01A
2.  "Secondary" coil as 1:10 with primary coil;  "secondary" coil should
be 120V, 0.1A
3.  Amp restricting coil (which is reverse polarity) as 1:9.1 with
primary coil; amp restricting coil should be 109.1V, 0.11A

The net current is now 0A due to cancellation, but the net voltage is
1200+120-109.1 which is 1210.9V!!!

TS
« Last Edit: February 15, 2015, 18:14:03 pm by timeshell »

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Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2012, 19:04:56 pm »
This morning I had an inspiration.  Maybe I'm being too simplistic, but
it only seems to make sense.

Let's look back to the basic properties of a basic transformer.  Power
in equals power out.  Let's take a 1:10 step up transformer as an
example.  12V 1A in equals 120V 0.1A out.  If it's a 1:100 transformer,
12V 1A in equals 1200V 0.01A out.  No matter what way you look at it,
the power must be equal.

We all know that the secondary, the choke coil and the amp inhibiting
coil are actually all secondaries to as they share a common core.

Assuming:
1.  Two coils with the exact same number of turns but are configured to
oppose each other will cancel each others fields and thereby each others
current
2.  The higher the number of turns, the lower the current on the secondary
3.  The lower the number of turns, the higher the current on the secondary
4.  The VIC has 3 secondaries

Configure (assuming 12V, 1A primary):
1.  Choke coil as 1:100 with primary coil; choke coil should be 1200V, 0.01A
2.  "Secondary" coil as 1:10 with primary coil;  "secondary" coil should
be 120V, 0.1A
3.  Amp restricting coil (which is reverse polarity) as ? with primary coil

I hope you all see where I am going with this by now.  In theory, by
step 3 the cumulative current is now at 0.11A.  This means that we need
to configure the amp restricting coil to step up from the primary at the
point where it will return 0.11A to restrict all current flow.

Since power in equals power out, the step up to get 0.11A from 12V and
1A would be 12W/0.11A which is 109.1V which is a ratio of 1:9.1

So, the three steps to complete restrict current becomes:

Configure (assuming 12V, 1A primary):
1.  Choke coil as 1:100 with primary coil; choke coil should be 1200V, 0.01A
2.  "Secondary" coil as 1:10 with primary coil;  "secondary" coil should
be 120V, 0.1A
3.  Amp restricting coil (which is reverse polarity) as 1:9.1 with
primary coil; amp restricting coil should be 109.1V, 0.11A

The net current is now 0A due to cancellation, but the net voltage is
1200+120-109.1 which is 1210.9V!!!

TS
What about mutual inductance?
Secondary coil is placed next to the primary coil, choke L1 is placed next to secondary and choke L2 is placed next to choke L1 and primary.

Assume the primary 12V @ 1A voltage from the secondary has 120V  @ 0.1A then this is also induced by chokes L1 and L2 but voltage (pressure) is on the choke L1. How much pressure is there from choke L1. The pressure is also on choke L2 in opposite polarity.

Due mutual inductance the coil inductances are altered placing the coils on a UU core. The magnetic field from the primary is aiding to the fields (secondary, chokes).

Br,
Webmug

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Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2012, 19:13:30 pm »
Look at time index 38:25 in this video.  Which coil does he increase.  Does he increase any others?


I don't believe the "chokes" are 1:1 at all.

My current experiments seem to support this.

TS

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Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2012, 19:22:13 pm »
Look at time index 38:25 in this video.  Which coil does he increase.  Does he increase any others?


I don't believe the "chokes" are 1:1 at all.

My current experiments seem to support this.

TS
Yes, seen it again  8) L2 is a tunable choke seen in the patents. But he's changing L1?

Increase the top choke for more voltage. Now the L2 choke has lower inductance as L1 choke. How can they be equal but opposite then?

Br,
Webmug

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Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2012, 20:50:54 pm »
Look at time index 38:25 in this video.  Which coil does he increase.  Does he increase any others?


I don't believe the "chokes" are 1:1 at all.

My current experiments seem to support this.

TS
Yes, seen it again  8) L2 is a tunable choke seen in the patents. But he's changing L1?

Increase the top choke for more voltage. Now the L2 choke has lower inductance as L1 choke. How can they be equal but opposite then?

Br,
Webmug

He wasn't changing L1 because it was tunable!  He was changing it to demonstrate how the VIC is scalable!  The tunable L2 is to fine tune the current cancellation against the "secondary" plus the charging choke.

Additionally, where does it say that they have to be equal?  The very fact that one is defined as variable suggests that they are not equal!

TS

EDIT:
Fine tuning isn't to fine tune current cancellation.  It is to fine tune resonance and that side of the cell.  See discussion at:
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,2946.0.html
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 00:22:32 am by timeshell »

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Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2012, 20:56:19 pm »
What about mutual inductance?
Secondary coil is placed next to the primary coil, choke L1 is placed next to secondary and choke L2 is placed next to choke L1 and primary.

Assume the primary 12V @ 1A voltage from the secondary has 120V  @ 0.1A then this is also induced by chokes L1 and L2 but voltage (pressure) is on the choke L1. How much pressure is there from choke L1. The pressure is also on choke L2 in opposite polarity.

Due mutual inductance the coil inductances are altered placing the coils on a UU core. The magnetic field from the primary is aiding to the fields (secondary, chokes).

Br,
Webmug

I don't believe mutual inductance applies as it normally would simply with standard inductors since all the coils are being charged simultaneously by the primary as well.

TS
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 04:53:51 am by timeshell »

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Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2012, 20:59:58 pm »
What about mutual inductance?
Secondary coil is placed next to the primary coil, choke L1 is placed next to secondary and choke L2 is placed next to choke L1 and primary.

Assume the primary 12V @ 1A voltage from the secondary has 120V  @ 0.1A then this is also induced by chokes L1 and L2 but voltage (pressure) is on the choke L1. How much pressure is there from choke L1. The pressure is also on choke L2 in opposite polarity.

Due mutual inductance the coil inductances are altered placing the coils on a UU core. The magnetic field from the primary is aiding to the fields (secondary, chokes).

Br,
Webmug

I don't believe mutual inductance applies as it would simply with standard inductors since all the coils are being charged simultaneously by the primary as well.

TS
Yes, it does, because the primary field is aiding to the other coils at the same time on resonance!

br,
Webmug

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Re: Theory - Coil Calculations to Restrict Amps
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2012, 21:26:04 pm »
What about mutual inductance?
Secondary coil is placed next to the primary coil, choke L1 is placed next to secondary and choke L2 is placed next to choke L1 and primary.

Assume the primary 12V @ 1A voltage from the secondary has 120V  @ 0.1A then this is also induced by chokes L1 and L2 but voltage (pressure) is on the choke L1. How much pressure is there from choke L1. The pressure is also on choke L2 in opposite polarity.

Due mutual inductance the coil inductances are altered placing the coils on a UU core. The magnetic field from the primary is aiding to the fields (secondary, chokes).

Br,
Webmug

I don't believe mutual inductance applies as it would simply with standard inductors since all the coils are being charged simultaneously by the primary as well.

TS
Yes, it does, because the primary field is aiding to the other coils at the same time on resonance!

br,
Webmug

While I do agree there is influence from mutual inductance, I also believe the effect is a compound effect above that of the primary coils charge.  My current experiments appear to support this.

TS