Author Topic: The effect of the electric field to the water molecule  (Read 6679 times)

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Re: The effect of the electric field to the water molecule
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2012, 14:31:36 pm »
Certainly is... for example depending on the frequency the dielectric constant will have different positive or negative coefficient of change as function of temperature... The higher the voltage applied the greater is the interaction with the molecules too.... very non linear in my perspective... 

The higher the electric field the lower will be the dielectric constant. Thats because the hydrogen bonds become partially disrupted allowing the molecules to "rotate" easier...

I took a look into the molecular orbital theory... very interesting... Meyer based his theory on this theory... not the valence bound theory i guess.. Because it is easier to consider excitation in molecular orbitals instead of hybridized orbitals...

My scientific background is missing some chemistry but i'm trying to improve it..

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Re: The effect of the electric field to the water molecule
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2012, 14:37:24 pm »
Certainly is... for example depending on the frequency the dielectric constant will have different positive or negative coefficient of change as function of temperature... The higher the voltage applied the greater is the interaction with the molecules too.... very non linear in my perspective... 

The higher the electric field the lower will be the dielectric constant. Thats because the hydrogen bonds become partially disrupted allowing the molecules to "rotate" easier...

Regards
Interesting link http://aias.us/documents/miscellaneous/LCR-Resonant.pdf original posted here
http://open-source-energy.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=646&pid=7259#pid7259

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Re: The effect of the electric field to the water molecule
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2012, 14:49:53 pm »
Also I'm not sure what Stan meant "tuning into to dielectric properties of water".

Quote
(c) Further subjecting in said capacitor to said pulsating electric field to achieve a pulse frequency such that the pulsating electric field induces a resonance within the water molecule;

It is known that the molecules have a resonance property "Resonance hybrids"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance_%28chemistry%29

Quote
The actual structure of a molecule in the normal quantum state has the lowest possible value of total energy. This structure is called the "resonance hybrid" of that molecule. The resonance hybrid is the approximate intermediate of the contributing structures, but the overall energy is lower than each of the contributors, due to the resonance energy.

Quote
Every structure is associated with a certain quantity of energy, which determines the stability of the molecule or ion (the lower energy, the greater stability). A resonance hybrid has a structure that is intermediate between the contributing structures; the total quantity of potential energy, however, is lower than the intermediate. Hybrids are therefore always more stable than any of the contributing structures would be.[9] The molecule is sometimes said to be "stabilized by resonance" or "resonance-stabilized," but the stabilization derives from electron delocalization, of which "resonance" is only a description. Delocalization of the π-electrons lowers the orbital energies, imparting this stability. The difference between the potential energy of the actual structure (the resonance hybrid) and that of the contributing structure with the lowest potential energy is called the "resonance energy".[5]

Quote
(d) Continuing the application of the pulsating frequency to the capacitor cell after resonance occurs so that the energy level within the molecule is increased in cascading incremental steps in proportion to the number of pulses;

So "tuning into to dielectric properties of water" is when you charge the molecule (the lower energy, the greater stability) or (the higher energy, the greater instability) ?

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« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 15:21:56 pm by webmug »

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Re: The effect of the electric field to the water molecule
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2012, 15:29:31 pm »
It happens that all atoms tends to find the situation of lower energy possible... for example oxygen and hydrogen combusts, why? because when oxygen see the electron of the hydrogen and some small energy is provided, the oxygen atom will attract the hydrogen electrons while will repel the hydrogen atoms, also hydrogen will attract oxygen electrons and repel the protons.. this forces and geometrical configurations of the electronic clouds makes the atom to take a geometric form...The oxygen atom has a special intelligence because it wants to fill its orbitals to reach stable state aways.

as you see there is an attraction and a repelling force... And as a result you have a  kind of mass spring system not very linear indeed "resonant" because is supposed to be quantized

The lone pairs repel each other distorting what would be a perfect tetrahedral structure making of it a bent molecule.

If i understand it correctly the covalent link up has electrons of opposite spins so they cancel out magnetic moment of the molecule... so there is no magnetic interaction in the link even if i feel it should play a rule.

So if you start to apply electric field forces on the molecule, this system will charge up like a spring... and than when the field turn off this energy remain in this water electronic resonance probably in the form of vibration, when the field is reapplied the molecules will get further stretched... step charging it...

The greater is the separation of the atoms the greater is the instability, so the greater is the potential energy of the molecule...

It works like this imagine a spring with a mass attached to it on the horizontal.. it can resonate at a frequency and reach maximum amplitude.
Now if you put a similar spring and a mass but now in the vertical, subjected by a unipolar force "gravity" the amplitude of the oscillation is much greater because the spring is stretched originally..

So if you apply a laser to the water an electric field is analogous..

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Re: The effect of the electric field to the water molecule
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2012, 15:41:25 pm »
Maybe meyer worked around the spins of the electrons to prevent the water molecule to reform? as no two electrons of same spin can form a covalent bond...

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Re: The effect of the electric field to the water molecule
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2012, 15:45:47 pm »
Certainly is... for example depending on the frequency the dielectric constant will have different positive or negative coefficient of change as function of temperature... The higher the voltage applied the greater is the interaction with the molecules too.... very non linear in my perspective... 

The higher the electric field the lower will be the dielectric constant. Thats because the hydrogen bonds become partially disrupted allowing the molecules to "rotate" easier...

Regards
Interesting link http://aias.us/documents/miscellaneous/LCR-Resonant.pdf original posted here
http://open-source-energy.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=646&pid=7259#pid7259

Regards


Did you understood if the capacitance parametric change to a greater or smaller value?

Water seems to parametrically change the dielectric value given the pulse is long enough? but its value decrease... the voltage increase... so is harder to get more charge into the capacitor...
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 16:24:43 pm by sebosfato »

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Re: The effect of the electric field to the water molecule
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2012, 21:12:34 pm »
Certainly is... for example depending on the frequency the dielectric constant will have different positive or negative coefficient of change as function of temperature... The higher the voltage applied the greater is the interaction with the molecules too.... very non linear in my perspective... 

The higher the electric field the lower will be the dielectric constant. Thats because the hydrogen bonds become partially disrupted allowing the molecules to "rotate" easier...

Regards
Interesting link http://aias.us/documents/miscellaneous/LCR-Resonant.pdf original posted here
http://open-source-energy.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=646&pid=7259#pid7259

Regards


Did you understood if the capacitance parametric change to a greater or smaller value?

Water seems to parametrically change the dielectric value given the pulse is long enough? but its value decrease... the voltage increase... so is harder to get more charge into the capacitor...
Hmm...what about the frequency, is this constant or variable. Stan mentions the PLL for tuning due the impurities in the water between the exciters.

The Charging and Discharging of Nonlinear Capacitors
http://www.jrossmacdonald.com/jrmpubs/020NonlinearCapacitors.pdf

My understanding is that all capacitors are NON-LINEAR.

http://stoner.phys.uaic.ro/old/ANALE/Anale_1997_1998/An_Univ_Iasi_1997_1998_09.pdf

Stan said: when tuned into the dielectric properties of water the current drops dramatically to 1-2mA!!!! Could be strong non-linear behavior in a WFC?

Quote
On the other hand, the non-linear effect in ferroelectrics manifests at high fields and low frequencies. By increasing the frequency, the
ferroelectric system tends to become paraelectric and linear, but the very high field at resonance impose the strong non-linear behaviour.


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« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 22:35:52 pm by webmug »

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Re: The effect of the electric field to the water molecule
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2012, 22:01:40 pm »
I think we are looking in the wrong direction about the restriction of current!

We need to start investigating the 180 degrees phase shift(voltage amplitudes) of the inductors Stan talked about in all his lectures.
What happens in the choke inductor to the current, it lags about 90 degrees to the voltage (theoretically for perfect inductors).
For sinusoidal waves, the voltage across an inductor leads the current through it by 90º

This is never the case on all frequencies according to LCR measurements on fixed frequencies (100,120, 1k, 10kHz)
I'm measuring +83.97 deg to +88.95 deg for chokes phases. And +34.19 deg to +88.93 deg without a core!!

For sinusoidal waves, the current through a capacitor leads the voltage across it by 90º
When we measure the WFC capacitor it not reads as a capacitor, only when it's empty!
Stan mentions in his documents that the WFC acts like a resistor on resonance? So there is no phase shift (0 deg).

Empty WFC is -9.09 deg to -78.4 deg.
Tap water WFC -41.2 deg to -1.57 deg.
Rain water WFC -9.28 deg to -0.822 deg.

Why did Stan use the adjustable symbol for the negative inductor? Yes, we know to adjust the equal but opposite voltages...

Question:
What happens when inductor current is almost 90 deg for chokes and if one choke is connected opposite polarity in respect to the voltages?
What if the phase is unequal and equal respect to each other and has this an restricting effect on current using the magnetic field in the UU-core of the VIC.

Regards!