Author Topic: More volts more turns...  (Read 6446 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2388
  • Testing
Re: More volts more turns...
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2012, 05:22:42 am »
Sorry for the above not to be spelled all that great, but no time for wordcheck here. I just wanted to jump back in here and add that the frequency  sent to this chokes does not really seem to matter at all. There where WIDE ranges of Frequencies that seemed to put HV across the cells.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3633
Re: More volts more turns...
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2012, 20:32:04 pm »
HEllo webmug,

I think 600 turns for the primary is way too much.. but who knows... According to my theory, it could work... but you would need to put some amps in the primary and this wire won't let you do this...

I just got 1,5 kilos of 24 awg wire to check if it will work.. . if more turns are needed i will need to use thinner wire... yet more for the secondary as it needs at least twice the turns... for it to work...


The woltage multiplication follows the number of turns proportionality, multiplied again by a factor which depends on the energy accumulated and the time it will take to collapse.


Offline Login to see usernames

  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2388
  • Testing
Re: More volts more turns...
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2012, 19:11:55 pm »
I would like for you to look at this and let me know what you think.
 

Here is the first link http://www.google.com/patents/US4484085

Now that you know what you're dealing with, here is the second. http://4hv.org/print.php?plugin:forum.43795

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3633
Re: More volts more turns...
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2012, 19:51:08 pm »
I took a look into that, it belongs to the vector inversion voltage multiplication technics... Really able to generate thousands of volts for nanoseconds..

If i recall well the spiral capacitance is charged and when it sparks the vector inversion takes place and put all the voltages series added in line..

Its sometimes used for laser power supplies from what i read about...


Offline Login to see usernames

  • Sr. member
  • ***
  • Posts: 434
Re: More volts more turns...
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2012, 11:51:58 am »
How many turns you got?

Did you wired the way I described?

Keep it simple stupid don't make it complicated.

Is what i'm trying to do now.

Forget it is a short circuit for a moment... what is needed, to apply high electric fields restricting the amps.

In that short text, stan clearly states that for achieving step charging effect the pulse width must be greater than 50%

I use the VIC configuration for the copper type mentioned above.

My primary has 600 wnd and 30AWG, the secondary and chokes have all 3000 wnd also 30AWG.
All coils wound same clockwise direction.

In that short text, stan clearly states that for achieving step charging effect the pulse width must be greater than 50%

I only pulse the circuit with 50%, lets see what happens when I change this with open-circuit...

Regards
Tested adjusting the pulse duty cycle on a fixed frequency. When it is other than 50% I can not gain maximum voltage.

So already written by Stan:
Quote
Variable pulse frequency generator (70) of Figure (3-5) varies and adjusts pulse frequency (63) (50% duty cycle pulse) while gated pulse frequency generator (80) of Figure (3-5) varies and adjusts pulse width (54a xxx 54n). These controlled and variable pulse features are, now, translated to Resonant Charging pulse train (65a xxx 65n) of Figure (3-21) via Unipolar pulse train (64a xxx 64n) of Figure (3-20) during Resonant Action (160) of Figure (3-26) when signal coupling is applied across Resonant Cavity (170) of Figure (3-24) via positive voltage zone (66).

Regards

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3633
Re: More volts more turns...
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2012, 07:28:07 am »
I'm doing my work here... my new chokes got 1000 turns 24awg and the secondary is 28 awg 1600turns + 500 turns 26awg

the primary i will make taps of 20 turns.

I believe that up to 20 kv per coil will be possible... if anything burn before  8)

Thats because the chokes helps to accumulate energy within the core to be discharged during the collapse generating the high voltages open circuit condition, amps restricted...

Basically if i got 20 turns at the primary and pulse it with 50v there will be 5100 at the secondary and 2500 at each choke....

The electric field strength depends on the wire length at the primary,, in my case 20 turns means 2,4 meters... than the electric field at the transformer is 50/2,4=20,83 v/m and as i said is the electric field at the transformer thus is the same for the secondary, however during pulse off it becomes 166,66 v/m

Thereto If the voltage limit of my switch during pulse off is 600v i can work safely at 400v if everything is fine tuned... so there is a magnification factor of 8 so 2500v*8 = 20k per choke

so there is 100 volts differential and the total impedance of the circuit is around 200 ohms or so... thus max 0,5 amps should be allowed...

the chokes had around 50mh each at air measurement...

I will add than a coil in series for tuning...

I just got a wild idea..

to put the tx5 coil for say connected to the circuit ground not connected to the secondary and than connected to the cell, and than connect the secondary with the primary, so the kick back energy at the primary also goes to the circuit doubling the frequency.. and further enhancing the electric field of the chokes... that where created during the collapse...

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 241
Re: More volts more turns...
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2012, 12:32:22 pm »
Seb sorry for dissapoint you but you can calculate all day long because the real thing is totaly different.I build some time ago one vic tr.:primary 15 turns 18awg /sec:7000 turns 30awg /chokes 1000turns 30awg.the pr.was pulsed with 26volts and got about 230v output with barely no amp power,and when i hooked up to cell same anoyng story:voltage drops to 2v.I am tired winding douzens of coils with no result,and to be onest if you don't have proper winding machine that could make a perfect wire by wire arangement the efort of windind manualy tousands of turns is in vain,because if you don't wind it perfect you lose inductance,therefore voltage output.How do you explain flybacks have almost the same ratio of winds between primary and sec. as mine but be able to output 20kv..because are factory made and isolated properly,if a single turn is a little offset it will short out internaly by arching....the point is you cannot do manualy what factory does...You can do transformers with the limit of several thousan volts,from that on the arching ocours and your in trouble....But more testing needs to be done and i run out of wire...time and patience,and without a scope i am blind...Keep up the good work!!!

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Sr. member
  • ***
  • Posts: 434
Re: More volts more turns...
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2012, 13:14:30 pm »
Seb sorry for dissapoint you but you can calculate all day long because the real thing is totaly different.I build some time ago one vic tr.:primary 15 turns 18awg /sec:7000 turns 30awg /chokes 1000turns 30awg.the pr.was pulsed with 26volts and got about 230v output with barely no amp power,and when i hooked up to cell same anoyng story:voltage drops to 2v.I am tired winding douzens of coils with no result,and to be onest if you don't have proper winding machine that could make a perfect wire by wire arangement the efort of windind manualy tousands of turns is in vain,because if you don't wind it perfect you lose inductance,therefore voltage output.How do you explain flybacks have almost the same ratio of winds between primary and sec. as mine but be able to output 20kv..because are factory made and isolated properly,if a single turn is a little offset it will short out internaly by arching....the point is you cannot do manualy what factory does...You can do transformers with the limit of several thousan volts,from that on the arching ocours and your in trouble....But more testing needs to be done and i run out of wire...time and patience,and without a scope i am blind...Keep up the good work!!!
Hi,

Don't think it really matters how perfect you wind the VIC coils. I wound a couple of coils, 3000wnd; sec, choke L1 and choke L2 all the same windings count on my DIY coilwinder. After measuring the coils with a BK LCR meter I almost have the same values.
Secondary L=82.05mH @ 100Hz; L1 L=82.54mH @ 100Hz and L2 L=82.74mH; Capacitance Secondary C=8.672uF @ 100Hz, L1 C=8.652uF @ 100Hz and L2 C=8.647uF @ 100Hz.

I agree, Scope is is necessary tool!

Regards