Author Topic: Figuring out the Steam Resonator  (Read 43988 times)

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Re: Figuring out the Steam Resonator
« Reply #64 on: February 08, 2012, 06:44:25 am »
waterfreak, How were you able to find out they were 220 Ohm resistors?

Also,
The H bridge is the same conclusion TonyW and I have accepted after he mentioned it a while back.
It is also why I am confused that stan didn't just use use a push pull circuit at the primary coil?
Also, each Steam Resonator coil has at least 3 seperate coils. It looks like 1 primary and 2 secondary coils.
The plates of the steam resonator do not form a capacitor, they are merely plates in the water in which the current flows through along with the voltage wave. I already have the driving circuit down and wokring, I am currently trying to find a coil which I think could perform the operation of the steam resonator. I think the coil is about the same as the VIC only without the negative choke.

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Re: Figuring out the Steam Resonator
« Reply #65 on: February 08, 2012, 07:15:29 am »
HMS-776....I think I know know why Stan made the flip-flop circuit on the secondary side instead of the Primary side. If he would have make the flip-flop on the Primary side, it would mess up the resonance, by placing it on the Secondary side it allows resonance to continue during the process. what do you think about this?

Also, the FWB rectifier is connected to the output of the Steam Resonator transformer.

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Re: Figuring out the Steam Resonator
« Reply #66 on: February 08, 2012, 13:21:50 pm »
HMS,

If you have figured out the driver circuit, please enlighten the rest of us.
The resistors match exactly with the 220 ohm resistors on Stan's other vic circuits and photos. He seems to like using 220 ohm resistors with his coils for some reason.
I am not sure of the AWG wire on the coil, but it appears the windings are all the same wire size.
Also, the coil seems to be wrapped in such a way as to leave the plastic tape between each wire as it was wound - not
just between the windings. I believe some others in the forum have mentioned this could be a secret to the VIC?

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Re: Figuring out the Steam Resonator
« Reply #67 on: February 09, 2012, 01:24:41 am »
Tony & waterfreak

Thanks for the input, the more sides we look at this the better we will all understand it....

I'm still contemplating if resonance was used in the steam resonator circuit? Looking at the home heating unit each switching transistor had a diode which would prevent any series resonance. Also, the steam resonator tubes do not act as a capacitor. If there is resonance it would have to be one of the coils resonating.

Note that in the buggy steam res VIC there were several high watt resistors. I think they were used to limit current but also protect the transistors in case the switching overlapped. The home heating unit used a huge core. Look at how thick the laminations were built up to! This was made for some serious inductance. Imo the inductive reactance of the coil performs current limiting. From my studies I think the circuit is similiar to the VIC, only without a negative choke.


Meyer states in a News Release that the steam resonator is an offshoot of the VIC....In all the diagrams and explanations in the TB resonance is not mentioned. One might think that the term 'resonator' implies resonance but that is a different kind of resonance. When referring to resonant cavities or waveguides the resonance is not the same thing as resonance within a circuit.


Waterfreak...

I should have actually called it the switching circuit, not the driving circuit. I designed a switching circuit on multisim which is very basic. It consists of a 555, a counter, and an RS flip flop to turn on and off the polarity switching transistors. Anyone who knows electronics can easily design something similiar.

And the plastic tape between the windings, that's no secret. It's just insulation for the coils. It's common in most transformers. Likely kapton tape or something similiar.

UPDATE: Just got a PM from Don after asking him about the VIC card for the steam resonator. Don said the card was identical to the other VIC cards. So resonance was used in the Steam Resonator. This brings up more questions???
With the microcontroller used in the home heating unit it may also have used resonance....
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 05:05:06 am by HMS-776 »

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Re: Figuring out the Steam Resonator
« Reply #68 on: February 09, 2012, 03:11:16 am »
HMS, thanx for the nfo.
I believe you are correct in your assumptions.
As far as the vic board being identical to the other resonant cavity control boards, they may have looked identical, but I wonder if all parts of the board were actually used?
Many of Stan's boards have wire bridges, etc., and I wonder if he only used part of the board in the steam resonator.
I do not think he used resonance in the steam setup, but I could be wrong.
Here's a hand-drawn diagram of the steam resonator circuit someone made on another forum - I found it here:

http://stansdream.com.ru/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=6e0402099017ae0ee0717d8aa83348b0&topic=4.0

Does it look like a polarity switching circuit to you?
As far as the picture from the home heating unit HMS, it could be a simple power supply transformer, supplying power for the unit.
I don't know - the wires and the transformer itself appear to be professionally made standard step-down xfmr to me.
Your guess is as good as mine.

But, if you look at the control board, you will see Stan used two transistors in pairs - NTE247(NPN) and NTE248(PNP), which are silicon complementary transistors.
He also used NPN and PNP pairs in the steam resonator vic we are discussing.
There is a common thread here, if we expand on it and follow it more closely, I believe.
I really want to get this working - It's cold here!
Plus, how many people could use a water heater that does not use tons of amps?

Something else I found interesting is the home heating unit board itself - it has the filename "WFCDRIVR.CKT" silkscreened on it.
If someone had access to this file, it would reveal a lot. I'm sure it was on one of the computers that was with the estate.
Also, on the control board, you will see the silkscreen says "24VAC".
The transformer appears to have 7 wires (that we can see).

HMS, your assumption of the coil having a secondary with bifilar chokes seems to be supported by the patent diagram.
Notice also the chokes (only) have a common core. In other parts of the patent, Stan states the coil is "together bifilar wrapped in equal length".
There is a mention of "resonant charging chokes".
Simple in concept, extremely complex in reality.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 03:32:32 am by waterfreak »

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Re: Figuring out the Steam Resonator
« Reply #69 on: February 09, 2012, 04:48:55 am »
Good points,

BTW I think you are right about the coil...There is an aftermarket power supply (note pic below on the right side) attached to the home heating unit which runs off of +24V.

I have also noticed Meyer stated the primary and secondary coils are bifilar wrapped equal in length, but he also states in the same TB section that the voltage is directly related to the turns ratio "Voltage intensity is directly related to the number of turns of each coil..." (TB p11-3).

Attached is a multisim replication of the crossover circuit. As you can see it's similiar to an H bridge circuit. R5 represents the steam resonator....Please note that the values of the resistances and transistors are not correct. I have been changing values to see the different effects and take measurements. The waveform shows the polarity switching. When transistors Q1 and Q3 are switched on the polarity across R5 will be in one direction, when transistors Q2 and Q4 are switched on the polarity will reverse. As you can also see there is a brief period between polarity switching. This is also shown in the Tech Brief.

In the waveform a DC voltage was applied across the circuit. When a coil is used the coil can be pulsed faster than the switching and then the waveform will represent what is shown in the tech brief.

(Sorry to keep editing, I'm sick today and can't think straight)

« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 05:16:28 am by HMS-776 »

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Re: Figuring out the Steam Resonator
« Reply #70 on: February 09, 2012, 06:08:59 am »
thinking of what is a potential useful application of the steam resonator is for - underslab and under floor heating using the steam resonator with a solar supply and having the concrete slab or otherunderfloor type reservoir of a water volume for heat distribution over the time the solar isnt being generated will help with a healthier indoor temp of the dwelling, got a cold workshop? give this idea a try.......this is an incentive to have a working steam resonator opensource :) what do you think

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Re: Figuring out the Steam Resonator
« Reply #71 on: February 09, 2012, 15:13:23 pm »
Opensource, I'd say that's what we are doing in this thread.
The problem is, as waterfreak stated earlier.

SIMPLE IN CONCEPT, EXTREMELY COMPLEX IN REALITY!

If this technology were simple at all we would all be driving water powered cars.