Author Topic: Understanding the VIC  (Read 47631 times)

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Re: Understanding the VIC
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2011, 03:35:35 am »
Seems we both realized that the injector VIC has a very high inductance.

When I built mine and connected all the secondary coils series aiding I was reading over 15H. At times my meter would stop reading because it was going over 20H. The 430 wire has some wierd characteristics, it seemed that trying to measure actual inductance  caused the inductance to increase. I think this was because the meter pushes current through the coil to measure the inductance, and the current was increasing the inductance of the coils...

I used the 430 wire which used to belong to Stan but I don't think the company that put the coating on it did a very good job because it was peeling off.

I also had a connection break inside the bobbin so I was never able to even test it out.....Really frusterating because I put over 100 hours into it....
(http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu141/Hms-776/vicc.jpg)


One thing I really wonder about the VIC injector is how resonance was maintained. Because the inejctors on time was so short there definately is not enough time there to use a PLL to scan for and lock resonance....I'm thinking that is one reason why the high resistance wire was used, to broaden the resonant bandwidth by dampening the circuit. I have only seen a small amount of info in the tech brief about the injector VIC driving circuitry.....

Where did you get your 430 wire from?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 04:36:02 am by HMS-776 »

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Re: Understanding the VIC
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2011, 04:44:25 am »
it came from Stan's stuff. The core material also came from Stan's collection. I just need to wrap the secondary so I can test it.

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Re: Understanding the VIC
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2011, 05:25:16 am »
Tony, from the picture of your full scale VIC it looks like you were able to solder the 430 wire to the posts...How were you able to solder them? That is one big problem I had when building mine which ultimately led to the wire breaking internally.

Also, I'm thinking the Injctor VIC resonance with the injector is over 20kHz, but using electrical steel throws me off, how thick are the electrical steel plates you have?

I used m4 electrical steel for mine but I think it was too thick for the frquencies which would be used.

PS, I have some info on the water fuel injectors from a good source. The center rod was .15", the taper went to .10" and was .5" in length with a gap of .01".....I calculated the estimated capacitance would be at a maximum 350pF.

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Re: Understanding the VIC
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2011, 05:42:28 am »
The plates are 0.3mm and they should be grain oriented steel. Yea I had some trouble soldering the wire but I ended up wrapping the wire around my terminals and was able to get the solder to hold the wire in place. I guess SS wire doesnt like to be soldered lol.
Yea in Stan's docs he says for the injector setup you would need frequencies up to 50kHz.

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Re: Understanding the VIC
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2011, 06:02:59 am »
Ok, 50kHz was what I was thinking also but I could not remember for sure...

Yeah that's most likely CRGO (Cold Rolled Grain Oriented) M4 electrical steel. It's the same stuff I used, it's 3mm also. I actually got mine from Don a while back.

So back to what you mentioned about the water's dielectric constant and tuning into it. I'm working to find out about what effect dielectric polarization has on leakage current. Is that what you were getting at about tuning into the water's dielectric?

Also, what turns ratio did you have in your small injector VIC?

Thanks everyone for the input, and sorry for all the questions tony....I'm just trying to get as many opinions and as much info as I can. I think the more we input we get on these forums the more we'll be able to rule out and understand.

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Re: Understanding the VIC
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2011, 07:00:34 am »
In Stan's papers he says to use M27 for the cores and this also goes for the 5 VIC transformer. So if you can get a ferrite core made, just use M27 laminates for the core.

If I'm right about the polarization, once you tune into the dielectric properties the cell will act just like a polarized capacitor. This is where the 180* phase shift will come into play and you will see the frequency doubling and voltage doubling occurring. What I mean by this is that when the water is polarized and you get the 180* phase shift, each positive voltage pulse from each phase will be seen on the polarized positive side of the cell and you should also see the negative voltage pulses on the other side of the cell. From tests that I have done using my 5 VIC transformer along with a real capacitor and the 180* phase shift, I was able to build up a high voltage potential over over 1.5kv.

If I remember right the scaled down 6-1 coil had a ratio of around 10:1

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Re: Understanding the VIC
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2011, 08:36:58 am »
Very interesting.

I was reading in the dealership sales manual earlier about the ions and electrons in the cell increasing the cell voltage beyond the applied voltage.

Quote
In the area of electron deflection, the electrically charged atoms moving towards the water molecules further disrupt the covalent bonding, while at the same time increasing the electrical charges inside the fuel cell during the electrical polarization process. Increasing the number of electrically charged atoms within the fuel cell directly increases the voltage charges within the same cell while the applied voltage pulse frequency potential remains the same...increasing gas yield while power input remains the same.
-Delearship Sales manual Page F7

I tend to wonder if the voltage at each plate is really the same though, since each choke outputs AC there would have to be some kind of coupling between the plates, perhaps polarization causes that so I don't want to discount it.

I tend to think that the polarity of the plates is always opposite but changes with each pulse. The reason why I think this is occuring is because I think it would increase the resonant action (also called compounding).

Quote
Simply moving liberated atoms back and forth uniformly through the electrical polarization process in a repetitive manner establishes resonant action in the fuel cell.
-Delearship Sales Manual page F6

I think the above statement is explaining that AC is used to move the atoms back and forth, but as we know Meyer never really stated anything plainly, it's open to interpretation.

« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 09:15:17 am by HMS-776 »

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Re: Understanding the VIC
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2011, 18:20:06 pm »
those statements in the sales manual stuck out to me as well. I did an experiment where I produced hho through electrolysis and then continually pumped it through the cell with my early vic attempt hooked up.

If the cells polarity switched with each pulse, wouldn't that be equivalent to the steam resonator? In the sales manual Stan states that there is both a static and alternating field being applied to the cell. I don't understand how that one would work?