Author Topic: All about the 8XA  (Read 6793 times)

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All about the 8XA
« on: September 23, 2011, 17:53:43 pm »
Hello everyone,
 
I'm new to all of this Stan Meyer stuff and I have been studying/reading/watching whatever material I can get my hands on.  My personal problem has been a lack of information.  Everytime I think I have all the patents or I have seen all of the videos, a new set of stuff pops up.
 
It's getting hard to keep all this stuff straight, especially when it appears Stan had many variations or evolutions of his ideas.
 
I want to get started on the basics and need a little help.  I'm trying to figure out where to start.  I saw TonyWoodside and a couple other people recommend starting with the 8XA circuit first, before getting into the more advanced stuff.
 
My first question is, was the 8XA circuit used for the WFC that had the adjustable plates?  I know these are very basic questions, but I want to make sure I have everything understood correctly.

<picture of variable plate cell attached below> SMVUS003.png
 
I saw the pictures that DynoDon posted here:
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,844.msg13442.html#msg13442
 
This is exactly what I want to build.  I did see that StanMeyerLives built this setup and it looks like it worked.  Here is his thread:
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1976.0.html
 
I want to build something like this but I have some questions about what parts to use.  I posted in StanMeyerLives thread but there was no response.  I sent him an email through the message board and also a PM and no response.  I even registered at his website stansdream.com but my account is waiting for activation or something, so I can’t post in his thread over there…..
 
I was hoping you guys can help me figure out what I need to build this setup.  First off, is this essentially the circuit that is in the video “It runs on water”?  It looks like it, a couple knobs, a couple meters, etc…  just wanted to ask, because that video he has the tube set instead of variable plates. 
 
Ok, in regards to the 8XA circuit, is there any existing threads with part numbers to build this thing?  I’m going off of DynoDon’s pictures (http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,844.msg13442.html#msg13442) and I can’t figure out what some of the part numbers are.
 
The 8XA looks like it’s actually three circuits. 
1. PC9XD circuit for voltage regulation
2. PC9XB for handling pulse width
3. 8XA that uses the above two sub-circuits within it.
 
OK, so my initial question is, does the PC9XD circuit just provide 5 & 12 volt power for anything that needs that in the larger circuit?  Ie, the IC chips in the PC9XB card and stuff like that?
 
So those are my initial questions, I’ll make circuit specific questions in follow up posts.
 
 
 

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9XD circuit
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2011, 18:08:16 pm »
OK, here's my specific questions about the 9XD circuit.
 
The power transformer doesn't look like it's variable, so I'm guessing I can use any 12 volt power supply, capable of up to 3 amps?  Old PC power supply? 
 
Or could I just use an old PC power supply to get 5 & 12 volts directly, bypassing the need to build the 9XD altogether?
 
Suppose I did want to build the 9XD, what is the value for capacitor C4.  Diagram DynoDon posted says .33mF, but what voltage?
 
Also, is .33mF the same as .33uF when buying capacitors?
 
I think I could fabricate this circuit myself, I have a little experience soldering and making basic circuits.
 
Thank you

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9XB Questions
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2011, 18:31:27 pm »
In regards to the 9XB circuit, I have many questions.  First off, what watt rating do you recommend for all of the resistors and pots?  I don't know how to calculate this....I know input power is 12 or 5 volts, and the rating of the resistor, but I don't know how much current this circuit uses. I would just guess 1/4 watt or something basic?
 
Also, the .01 uF capacitor, what voltage rating would that be?  Would it have to be anything above 12 volts because that is what is feeding the circuit?
 
Above each of the decade counters, the diagram shows "in/10".  What does that mean?  Does that just indicate that whatever the 555 or input gives it, it will divide that by 10?
 
I am planning on bread boarding these circuits, so a lot of this I think I will learn when I test it out, I mainly need to know what to choose for resistor/cap values
 
Thanks again

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8XA Questions
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2011, 19:17:33 pm »
In regards to the actual 8XA circuit, I'm having problems trying to find part numbers listed on DynoDon's schematic.
 
Full bridge rectifier = MB12A2 5V 40
Clarostat vp-25-k
 
The Clarostat is listed as obsolete.  It looks like an adjustable wire wound resistor or something.  Can I just use a pot?  I'm not even sure what this is, any help?
 
Before posting, I think I figured out the bridge rectifier.  Looks like a 400v 25a.  I still can't find anyone that sells it, so might have to substitute something else in.
 
For the choke, is there only ONE choke in this circuit?  Can I just wrap the wires around a ferrite rod?  It looks like the EC52 is a 'E' shaped core.  Not sure if I can get those anymore, I don't know where to buy anything like that.
 
From my understanding, there's just two wires that are wrapped bifilar on one core?  What does the diagram mean when it says 760uH per coil?  Isn't there only ONE coil?  Is that if you were trying to run a multiple tube setup or something?  Each would need it's own coil?
 
Last question, near bottom right of diagram, the ground says TO BRIDGE.  Does this just connect the ground connection on the bridge rectifier?
 
Also, can I just use 18 gauge magnet wire for the choke?
 
I already picked up a Powerstat 21 for cheap.  I'm looking to order the rest of the stuff soon.  Any help would be appreciated.  Sorry for such long posts....

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Re: All about the 8XA
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2011, 22:37:27 pm »
Yes, you could use any old voltage source for the 5V and 12V rail. A PC psu might just do it, might not.
The drawing for the Dual voltage regulator is just a basic design straight out of the books anyways.
(http://www.researchcell.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Voltage-Regulator-Circuit-Diagram.gif)


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Re: All about the 8XA
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2011, 23:10:15 pm »
And here is a tutorial for decade timers of the old days. They were replaced mostly with 555 and 556 chips. And today you don't see 555's much anymore either. Times have changed and many of the parts you will be looking for will be obsolete and replaced with newer designs and cheaper materials.

http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/counter/count_2.html

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Re: All about the 8XA
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2011, 02:26:48 am »
Hi lads,
some thoughts:
1: if you dont want the adverts at the bottom of the threads then use NoScript with firefox to prevent Chitika.com scripts from loading

2: the 555 timer - although it is an old favourite - is there a xtal based later design chip that would have more accurate frequency control?

3: the 7490 Decade and binary counter - this set of 3 in the 9xb drawing - they give the appearance of a frequency reduction set which relies primarily upon the stability of the 555 - was this done because potentiometer adjustment of the 555 may have been a challenge to do. So is there currently a single chip that CAN and would replace all 4 chips for the purpose of reducing chip count, simplyfying circuit design and board design and increasing accuracy of frequency required? In otherwords what design would eliminate the need to use 555 and 7490?

4: To advance the potential usage of the idea of adjustable frequency generator - can a single chip such as the XR2206 replace the 555 and 7490?

5: To advance even further - I know that by the extensive writing on many forums people like to protect their ideas because other low lifes like to steal designs and present them as their own and such perpertrators should be exposed for such and fair enough.

However perhaps that human action has suffocated the electronics design advancement for the average hobbyist who may not have the educated skills in specialised areas to advance beyond the 8xa and 9xa drawings and the associated cost of assembling it. Tony this is not a "go "at you - your study and accomplished circuit design manufacture and assembling leads you into a career field and well done - my thoughts are what could WE help design to take the idea further.


? It is also recognised that others who have already built and experimented with the 8xa type designs say - build it to understand what is going on - ok fair enough - however in these times of austerity I would like to promote the idea that the potential cost is possible to reduce by advancing in u chip usage.

What I dont like about the 8xa drawing design is it shows a reliance upon a distributed mains supply to drive it and for it to function through the SCR to provide a "unipolar waveform voltage"that is switched at a timed interval.

Sure that design means people who are not electronics engineers or educated technicians may need to study electronics to work out what a SCR does blah blah blah however to my mind this makes the design less practical and less flexible in its design to be utilised in a vehicles power supply, thus my thoughts are:
 - a circuit design needs to be designed and built with the end result of it being used and mounted to a vehicle or other engine - whether it be a motorbike or portable generator or similar - and can the same circuit board be utilised in driving a WFC set and injectors? 


 What are your petrol prices at the moment? An article in the press a couple of days ago suggested we will not see petrol prices below the $nz 2 per litre again

After discussions with others - I am certain that the forward progress lies in utilising a microprocessor to provide the 2 basic signal functions : 1 the frequency generated pulse (whether it be sine or square wave) and 2: the interrupt gating, with the option of adding more "phases". What I dont yet know is .....how to do it. With the advancement of processors, surely there can be cost reductions in approaching the wfc/injector frequency/pulse designs to reduce the component cost.?

what are your thoughts?

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Re: All about the 8XA
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2011, 16:30:17 pm »
While I like all of your thoughts, I don't really thing Stan's diagrams are all that complicated for building these circuits.  Yes, the VIC and more advanced stuff is, but I'm just trying to start from the beginning.
 
I need some help trying to figure out what components to use for each part of the circuit.  I'm kind of looking for someone that has 'been there and done that' to point me in the right direction.
 
Quote

 What I dont like about the 8xa drawing design is it shows a reliance upon a distributed mains supply to drive it and for it to function through the SCR to provide a "unipolar waveform voltage"that is switched at a timed interval.

Sure that design means people who are not electronics engineers or educated technicians may need to study electronics to work out what a SCR does blah blah blah however to my mind this makes the design less practical and less flexible in its design to be utilised in a vehicles power supply, thus my thoughts are:
 - a circuit design needs to be designed and built with the end result of it being used and mounted to a vehicle or other engine

I'm not sure, but looking over this circuit, looks like it was designed to be run in a car.  Look it over again....
A car alternator gives out 110 volts.  Instead of needing the Powerstat 21 to vary power delivery, you would just vary the speed of the alternator...
 
Also, that may explain why a voltage regulator (5 & 12 volt) is part of the circuit. I'm guessing that 9XD portion of the circuit is needed to drive the chips with 5 volts and possibly all other car electronics via 12 volts.
 
I may be way off on all this, but I still want to build the circuit in order to experiment and see what it has to offer.  Most likely it will just be a learning experience, or stepping stone onto bigger better things.
 
Now if I could just get some more comments answering my questions in my posts....
 
Thanks for the help guys