Author Topic: Different kind of VIC Circuit  (Read 14930 times)

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2011, 03:00:30 am »
Switched up the X former again.

Did a few different things, not sure on the results of them so not posting info yet.
One addition is instead of 0.1 uf I added another to the driver circuit to drop the freq. some, so primary was 0.2 uf.

Here are some photos on what I discovered:

Photo 1, 10 volts into the driver, Meter to the left Cell current - 1.5 amps, Right Input current - 1.5 amps.
Photo 2, 20 volts into the driver, Meter to the left Cell current - 4.0 amps, Right Input current - 2.6 amps.
Photo 3, 30 volts into the driver, Meter to the left Cell current - 6.7 amps, Right Input current - 3.5 amps.
Photo 4, gas production at 30 volts driver input.
Photo 5 Coil and driver. 12 awg wire now, primary and chokes on left of core, secondary (testing on right.


This shows Meyers non linear increase in current on the cell (or at least I think so).
(see photo 6 Amp leak from the driver becomes less as the voltage is increased, Cell current continues to clime until the desired gas production rate is achieved)


I think I hit level 2 on the graph, Constant applied pulses.

I was taking the cell current up to 10 amps.  I got to 9.5 in the cell, with about 4.2 on the driver and my meter lead jumped off the cell.


Now the driver is not working, but wanted to post this instead of looking into the problem.


Water (distilled) now has 25% by weight (guess) KOH, 1 % NaOH.

The question remains - does the current in the cell surpass the input power at a specific voltage?


I am planning to build a driver for 125 volts input to test this. 


Work is slowing me down some on this end. 
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 03:43:49 am by warj1990 »

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2011, 02:50:17 am »
I found the problem with the driver today, turns out my fuse blew on my meter.  So the mains voltage was lost to the driver.


I tested it with a large resistor instead of water and it is drawing 15 amps in the primary.  I will need to check the fets again, but I dig get 60 khz frequency.

Looking at the above photos I had 10 v, 20 v, and 30 v recorded.  That equals input power of 15 watts, 53 watts, and 106 watts.
Looking at the 30 volt load at 3.54 amps I want to run a comparison to the best series cell.

I will utilize 3 volts per cell (I have heard of 2.2 volts per cell and being the best - but this cell is also producing CO2 in the output due to the electrolyte used.)


So for 30 volts / 3 volts per cell = 10 cells.  10 cells * 3.54 amps = 35.4 amps (gas production).

My goal is to build a set of series cells to see if I can produce more amperage in the cells (using this driver) than the series brute force equivalent at 30 volts input.

Looking at Figure 8 above, the voltage levels are input to the field of an alternator (some proof is the solid voltage V1, V2 - prior to pulsing How can you apply solid voltage to a transformer and make it work?).  So my input voltage is going to be more than this.


I understand most of the figure. 
Solid voltage to L1,
  Brute force.
Pulsed voltage to L2,
Gated pulsed voltage to L3
  Allows higher voltage into the transformer, therefor allowing more current flow in the cell, while keeping the average input current low.
Exciter electrical Isolation L4
  Separate cells for each electrode Isolated water bath - not allowing the current to flow between cells (our standard series cell).


Beyond that I am not sure where the components come into play. 

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2011, 04:05:30 am »
Little work today.


I replaced one mosfet on the driver and it is back to good now, low current draw on the primary.


I purchased some current sensors to add to the driver, to help incorporate the mark/space system on the pulse train.


(still want to have the auto tune ability, however a predetermined amp draw needs to be established and the off time needs a set point also).
(will be some time before they are put to use in my current driver - still testing out VIC configurations)




To test the current draw with L4 of the graph, Exciter Electrical Isolation (aka series cell), I purchased some wall plates of stainless steel from lowes and some plastic containers from Walmart.
 
This setup is already put together and costs less than the tube cell.  I don't expect the system to "hold up" long term.


I purchased a 200 amp clamp meter that should arrive mid week, look forward to that as 10 amp secondary has been one of my limits in testing (and the loose lead cost a Mosfet, meter fuses, and down time).




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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2011, 15:55:46 pm »
I was doing some experiments today and getting mixed results.

I decided to try just the circuit that was first posted, no water fuel cell. 

One amp meter connected to primary, another at the diode in place of the cell.

System was tested at 1 amp, 2 amp draw in the primary, some I could go to 3 amp - but the voltage of 55 is still a limit on this driver.

Here is a chart of the results: (changing cap to test configurations)


uf of cap.         Freq.       Primary Voltage     Primary Current     Secondary Current
0.1                   33.91khz          33v                       1amp                    1.07amp
0.1                                           55v                       2amp                     1.7amp


0.2                   29.93khz          27v                       1amp                    1.5amp
0.2                                           50v                        2amp                    2.9amp


0.3                   26.26khz          24v                       1amp                    1.7amp
0.3                                           50v                        2amp                    4amp


0.4                  23.86khz           20v                        1amp                    1.85amp
0.4                                           45v                         2amp                   4.4 amp


0.5                  22khz               18v                        1amp                     1.84amp
0.5                                           40v                        2amp                     4.5amp


0.6                  20.6khz            17v                        1amp                      1.84amp
0.6                                           37v                        2amp                      4.4amp
0.6                                           52v                        3amp                     7.7amp


0.7                 19.39khz           15v                        1amp                      1.8amp
0.7                                           33v                        2amp                     4.3amp
0.7                                           49v                       3amp                      7.9amp


0.8               NA                       14v                        1amp                      1.8amp
0.8                                          29v                         2amp                     4.2amp
0.8                                          45v                         3amp                     7.6amp

The frequency was changing in the last setup as the voltage increased (I could hear it)  So I did not bother to check it.

Keep in mind this is just a matching transformer.  Next setup is going to incorporate the secondary as well(which is the setup I used on the prior posting).
 

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2011, 18:08:21 pm »
Same primary as before 5 turns 2x, 5 turns per choke.

I added the secondary of 40 turns on the other half of the core.

Chart

uf of cap.             Freq.             Primary V                    Primary C             Secondary C
0.1                      43.42khz        20v                               1amp                       1.8amp
0.1                                            47v                                2amp                       4.4amp

0.2                      37.43khz        16v                               1amp                        1.9amp
0.2                                             35v                              2amp                         4.6amp
0.2                                            50v                               3amp                        6.5amp

Still having problems with the circulating current being low.

For this next test I removed the secondary choke diodes  allowing AC current in to circulate.

First test showed 1 amp input at 15 volts and 5 amps circulating. 
?

« Last Edit: June 19, 2011, 17:57:27 pm by warj1990 »

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2011, 21:48:09 pm »
I connected a 350 turn secondary to the circuit, replacing the old one, I also replaced the core with another that came in today.
Same size core about the same performance - I now have 18 cores to work with.

I had just the circuit connected as a VIC (transformer), no cell no diodes etc...

A single diode was used to allow the HV from the secondary to the chokes (As the vic shows).

I connected the diode on either side of the chokes, swap leads, one allowed 1 amp draw at the primary and 4.4 amps on the secondary.

The other connection, swap leads, allowed 1 amp draw at primary and 5 amps on the secondary, both with 25 volts input.

I also tried the setup with the secondary not connected.  1 amp at the primary 3.9 amp on the secondary with 22 volts input.
I kept the connection with the most amps in the secondary for further testing.

0.5 amps passing from secondary to chokes (dc or pulsed dc).

I found out my diodes are dropping 1.7 volts per pass - no wonder the current drops so much with them in place. 
I have ordered Schotty diodes with a forward drop of 0.55 - best I could find, 8 amp rating.

I figure this would be 3 times better than my current setup.

I have to find a way to rectify AC without diodes ( or forward voltage drop).  Any ideas please speak up.
The only thought that comes to mind is a mosfet, but I have no idea how to keep it from blowing up on the reverse cycles of the xformer.(basically floating gate voltage from driver to sync xformer output).

One other note at 5 amps secondary I am reading about 70volts at the secondary cap.

Last thing - this will shock the crap out of you! 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2011, 17:58:24 pm by warj1990 »

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2011, 22:15:01 pm »
I added the cell now to make sure the voltage / current did not drop, this is my tube cell.

Current stayed the same as without the cell connected,  ;D

Now I need to find some cheap SSRs (solid state relays) for driving this current in and out of the cell.
(possible diode replacements) 
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 23:23:27 pm by warj1990 »

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2011, 23:34:49 pm »
I'm trying to figure out if this should be a step up x former - to allow higher voltage(resulting in higher current) or if this should become a step down transformer - driving more current into the secondary - allowing resonance and the PIE increase in voltage to do the work.


So far I have been able to input 1 amp at 15 volts (15 watts) and output 5 amps, then i moved the primary to 2 amps (think 30 volts did not check)(60watts?) and output of 10 amps - meter max.


No gas production as AC was allowed into the cell.


I should be able to drive 40 amps at the cell (estimated 280 volts)(11200 watts) with the input of 60 volts at 4 amps(240watts)


The secondary voltage is kind of null - as i am wanting to achieve maximum amps not volts.
Any thoughts?  I am at a stand still until I get my amp meter and the SSR.