Author Topic: Resonance WFC measurements  (Read 36833 times)

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Re: Resonance WFC measurements
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2011, 04:11:48 am »
Great to hear about your airplane and gyrocopter Don, thats cool stuff.

here is a picture of the RVIC waveform of a single phase, the right side is a fully unipolar core, and the left side is after one diode failed and the core was now ac

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/Picture21-3.png)

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Re: Resonance WFC measurements
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2011, 04:25:15 am »
hey Don,
If you read Stan's notes and patents he never really says what the resonant signal looks like. All he says is the input signal is always unipolar. If  you would look at one of the threads I posted in earlier, http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=1943.5 you will see how the pulse indicator circuit works and how it lets the PLL know when resonance occurs. The resonant signal in the LC circuit will always be bipolar no matter what.

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Re: Resonance WFC measurements
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2011, 05:15:13 am »
you say stans pll circuit triggers on a ac signal? is that how his works or was that just for your circuit?


i know Stephen's circuit has bipolar ringing, but both sides ring bipolar so that the net voltage between them is always unipolar




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Re: Resonance WFC measurements
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2011, 05:18:53 am »
The OpAmp of the Pulse Indicator circuit will take the bipolar signal and covert it to a 50% duty cycle square wave only when resonance is detected, other wise the signal to pin 14 of the 4046 will be high.

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Re: Resonance WFC measurements
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2011, 08:14:10 am »
Have you guys looked at my scope shot.
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=1934.msg19407#msg19407
Voltage is swinging AC between the chokes but opposite and almost equal in potential to eachother.
So the WFC has flipping pos. and neg. and max voltage swing between the plates.
The pickup coil never sees the same signal as on the wfc, only AC from the resonance on the core.

That's what I'm seeing this moment, more to discover...

Br,
Webmug

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Re: Resonance WFC measurements
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2011, 10:12:14 am »
I see that webmug, i just can't get on board with the ac theory, i see the diodes making a second pulse in the rvic, i still have more to understand, the 3 phases mutually induct with each other so a double pulse in one phase shows up in the other phases too, so it's like i get 9x the pulses haha, but when you combine all the phases you would lose that distinction as they overlap


for the pulse indicator circuit, if it is designed to lock onto an ac signal, i cant say, i don't yet have the experience to figure that out, the feedback coil does not have a diode in it's circuit like the rest of the vic does, so there is nothing stopping it from swinging below zero while the rest of the circuit is step charging up in a unipolar fashion


remember that he calls it a "Resonant Charging Choke Circuit", which is strictly dc resonant charging terminology, when you have AC resonance you just call it LC resonance or an inductor, but a resonant charging choke circuit is specific, and means that energy builds up in the circuit over several pulses, Stan likes to name things, but his names are exact and precise! Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly for example, what a name! but break it down word by word and that's exactly what the thing does, for every single thing he names, Electrical Polarization Process... thats what we are trying to do, polarize the water in an electric field until the applied electrical force is greater than the covalent bond, you cant do that with ac unless it is strong enough to rip the water apart during each and every pulse

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Re: Resonance WFC measurements
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2011, 17:55:10 pm »
I see that webmug, i just can't get on board with the ac theory, i see the diodes making a second pulse in the rvic, i still have more to understand, the 3 phases mutually induct with each other so a double pulse in one phase shows up in the other phases too, so it's like i get 9x the pulses haha, but when you combine all the phases you would lose that distinction as they overlap


for the pulse indicator circuit, if it is designed to lock onto an ac signal, i cant say, i don't yet have the experience to figure that out, the feedback coil does not have a diode in it's circuit like the rest of the vic does, so there is nothing stopping it from swinging below zero while the rest of the circuit is step charging up in a unipolar fashion


remember that he calls it a "Resonant Charging Choke Circuit", which is strictly dc resonant charging terminology, when you have AC resonance you just call it LC resonance or an inductor, but a resonant charging choke circuit is specific, and means that energy builds up in the circuit over several pulses, Stan likes to name things, but his names are exact and precise! Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly for example, what a name! but break it down word by word and that's exactly what the thing does, for every single thing he names, Electrical Polarization Process... thats what we are trying to do, polarize the water in an electric field until the applied electrical force is greater than the covalent bond, you cant do that with ac unless it is strong enough to rip the water apart during each and every pulse
Yes, I also do know that we can not charge a capacitor with AC and I agree what you said about DC resonant charging.

I tried different coils configurations, but alway it's AC signal at the WFC on resonance frequency.
Also switched diode types and reverse polarity from the coils at the diode... always AC at the WFC.
Diode has no effect at this moment, so something isn't right with my VIC.
It looks like what I did in simulator. http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=1305.msg19020#msg19020

So I am where Dynodon is also stuck.

Played with GATE signal on the PLL inhibit pin with PULSE as resonance frequency. (see scope shots)

If you guys have ideas, please let me know.

br,
Webmug

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Re: Resonance WFC measurements
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2011, 18:37:45 pm »
hey Don,
If you read Stan's notes and patents he never really says what the resonant signal looks like. All he says is the input signal is always unipolar. If  you would look at one of the threads I posted in earlier, http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=1943.5 you will see how the pulse indicator circuit works and how it lets the PLL know when resonance occurs. The resonant signal in the LC circuit will always be bipolar no matter what.

Hi Tony
Do You remember this quote from Stans patent:
In a typical operation of the cell with a representative water capacitor described below, at a frequency of about 5 KHz at unipolar pulses from 0 to 650 volts at a sensed resonant condition into the resonant cavity, conversion of about 5 gallons of water per hour into a fuel gas will occur on average.

" at unipolar pulses from 0 to 650 volts "
?
 andy