Author Topic: Resonance WFC measurements  (Read 36828 times)

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Re: Resonance WFC measurements
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2011, 16:00:07 pm »
hmm, interesting
 
well I asked Don about it, he said his cores are hard ferrite but not magnets. maybe wikipedia isn't the best place to get info from haha
 

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Re: Resonance WFC measurements
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2011, 17:20:22 pm »
Test VIC number 5  :-X
Looks a bit buggy but I have tested another ferrite core in my VIC. Due to the generated magnetic field the core is held together.
It generates about 528Vpp AC signal at a choke (measured choke WFC+ to gnd) 12V @20mA, so it looks the same as my other tested ferrite cores!

I can shift the offset above zero when I place a 1Mohm resistor between sec. GND and choke.
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1934.msg19567.html#msg19567

On resonance my sec. generates 1kVpp AC.

Laminated core doesn't generate enough volts, stuck at 30V AC.

I do not know how to get rid of the AC swing at the chokes and get opposite voltage, so I assume I'm doing something really wrong here or missing things 8)

Ideas?

Br,
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Re: Resonance WFC measurements
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2011, 00:21:30 am »
I'm using copper, with the same kind of core material as you, but i'm about ready to start on my new vic.
Don said the core Stan used looked like hard ferrite, so since he used between 0 and 10 khz that would mean he was most likely using a Manganese Zinc ferrite, having permeability’s above 1000. 
 
Anyway, right now i'm getting an ac signal at resonance with 1000 volts across the cell. If I move out of resonance to a different frequency range I read a pulsing signal that switches between 0 volts and around 200 volts. I want to look into this further.
 
what kind of voltage are you getting with your vic?
 
here is a picture of my cores and bobbins
Isn't hard ferrite used for permanent magnets? If that core was a magnet it would be useless for pulse signals or not?

Soft ferrite: "The low coercivity means the material's magnetization can easily reverse direction without dissipating much energy"
Hard ferrite: "high coercivity and high remanence after magnetization"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrite_%28magnet%29

Br,
Webmug


Webmug,

Using a magnet for core is possible.
Only if your coils are producing a greater magneticfield then the magnet.
That way you will notice a change in the magnetic field and my theory is that that also is doing something.
For Meyer cores, i would suggest to stay at cores that fits the frequency, raise and fall times.

Steve
Stan talks about a pulse transformer for the VIC transformer.

What is a pulse transformer?

"The magnetic flux in a typical A.C. transformer core alternates between positive and negative values. The magnetic flux in the typical pulse transformer does not. The typical pulse transformer operates in an “unipolar” mode ( flux density may meet but does not cross zero ).
A fixed D.C. current could be used to create a biasing D.C. magnetic field in the transformer core, thereby forcing the field to cross over the zero line. Pulse transformers usually (not always) operate at high frequency necessitating use of low loss cores (usually ferrites)."
http://www.butlerwinding.com/store.asp?pid=28355

What about the VIC circuit, does it do D.C. biasing to make it a pulse transformer?
Does a flat transformer core use less biasing D.C. magnetic field?
Could it be that a hard ferrite core operates in an “unipolar” mode?

Br,
Webmug

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Re: Resonance WFC measurements
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2011, 06:30:44 am »
Stan has it labeled D.C pulsing core I think in one of his drawings of the Vic transformer.... The secondary is divided into 3rds which are Secondary, +choke and -choke....

  A diode separates 1/3 of the secondary from the other 2/3 of secondary.. That one third is the positive choke...  Everytime the transformer is pulsed there are electrons removed from the positive choke.. They do not go back into it since the diode is there to block that from happening.. The only thing i can imagine is as the positive choke charges you get a build up of electrons within the inductor core that is within the positive choke wind region.. While the negative side rejects them within its region of the inductor core..

not totally clear on what happens inside ferrite quite yet.. not sure if the electrons are free to move in them or if they are locked in domains.

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Re: Resonance WFC measurements
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2011, 15:14:36 pm »
Stan has it labeled D.C pulsing core I think in one of his drawings of the Vic transformer.... The secondary is divided into 3rds which are Secondary, +choke and -choke....

  A diode separates 1/3 of the secondary from the other 2/3 of secondary.. That one third is the positive choke...  Everytime the transformer is pulsed there are electrons removed from the positive choke.. They do not go back into it since the diode is there to block that from happening.. The only thing i can imagine is as the positive choke charges you get a build up of electrons within the inductor core that is within the positive choke wind region.. While the negative side rejects them within its region of the inductor core..

not totally clear on what happens inside ferrite quite yet.. not sure if the electrons are free to move in them or if they are locked in domains.
@outlawstc,
Stan named a label: "unipolar magnetic field coupling" "pulsing core" (fig.190) also he mentions applying voltage amplitude (Vo xxx Vn).

What does he mean with voltage amplitude Vo: GND??, zero?? or above zero??, or one. (3-7) (fig.3-19). Vn is 12V PULSE ON. So if this Vo is not zero then we have a offset (d.c.bias)...
If voltage is switched off, in one figure he shows a pulse above zero as Vo. (fig.680) Pulse train is Vn.
When he talks about the BLOCKING DIODE what does it also do if there is above zero voltage when PULSE OFF? He said it is preventing a short circuit. The core should maintain above zero flux so then we have unipolar magnetic field coupling.
If this is not maintained we end up having AC signal and no resonant charging choke effect?

Br,
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Re: Resonance WFC measurements
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2011, 09:31:47 am »
"voltage amplitude (VO xxx Vn) of Figure (3-19) to vary from one up to twelve volts (battery supply _28_ of Figure _3-_6 )"
 
 
Could it be that pulstrain is biased ?

 

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Re: Resonance WFC measurements
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2011, 10:47:55 am »
Remember that most diodes need a minimum voltage to be in conducting state. When you keep a minimum of 0.5-1 volts on the diode you ensure that it keeps in the conducting state. If you would not do that you will loose part of your pulse on the switching time of the diode.


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Re: Resonance WFC measurements
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2011, 14:06:23 pm »
"voltage amplitude (VO xxx Vn) of Figure (3-19) to vary from one up to twelve volts (battery supply _28_ of Figure _3-_6 )"
 
 
Could it be that pulstrain is biased ?

 
He probably means that the pulse has an amplitude from minimum 0V to 1V and max. 0V to 12V that regulates the gas production.
When I look at the circuit I see no offset added to the TX1 coil so pulse is OFF (0V)

Br,
Webmug