Author Topic: Stan's Resonant Frequency  (Read 35956 times)

0 Members and 10 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Moderator
  • Sr. member
  • ***
  • Posts: 460
    • Global Kast : Water Fuel Cell Research
Re: Stan's Resonant Frequency
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2010, 17:15:52 pm »
Steve,

With my 4" x 6" plate setup with 1mm spacing (10.8nF) the gases are steady but not heavy.  Now when I tested a smaller plate setup of 1" x 1" plates spaced at 1mm (450pF) the gases stream off pretty good.  This is due to the high voltages covering the smaller plate area.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: Stan's Resonant Frequency
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2010, 20:02:54 pm »


Guys i found something really interesting and i would like to share with you cause somehow is related to meyers technology

I think that the right frequency is the frequency of the motional or vibrational resonant frequency, it drives the transformer but the important is the gate that should gate shorting the water, and I would say that this gate will be the time that you take to collect the ions close to the electrode to than short them re generating the electricity. Water is must work like a battery that you charge but when you discharge it generates hydrogen. The important is that the energy is refluxed to get in coherence with energy getting into the water. I think that he do in a such a way that he cause the movement of the water by the electrostatic attraction but in such a way as to cause a kind of motional vibration (induced by the electric field) as to restrict the amps.


Or maybe just or and


I saw some time ago that there are electrostatic filters they attracts the ions with high voltage...


The idea is to make it behave like a battery you charge it enough to be able to discharge it fast enough as for the ions want enter into the metal, as they can't they will get their bounds breaks.


I would say that the inner electrode something like the electrostatic source but having also a conductive electrode layer with it. One is the electrostatic source. The other is the collector and than you have the anode around.


The short is on the collector and the anode. And the electrostatic source is isolated. Think a way to place the water with a very high voltage area around connected with only one wire. Only few micro amps would flow.


If this voltage is pretty high it impress a force on the ions inside the water, they move to the anode and collector (the cathode is the electrostatic source having the collector around it)


You impress a voltage by the action of the electrostatic force.


The collector maybe is a honey comb like platinum and palladium anode and cathode or inverse not sure. Those used for plating.


Happy new Year for All !!!
=)
Fabio






Online Login to see usernames

  • Administrator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4443
    • water structure and science
Re: Stan's Resonant Frequency
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2011, 18:57:26 pm »
Steve,

With my 4" x 6" plate setup with 1mm spacing (10.8nF) the gases are steady but not heavy.  Now when I tested a smaller plate setup of 1" x 1" plates spaced at 1mm (450pF) the gases stream off pretty good.  This is due to the high voltages covering the smaller plate area.

Did you do a reference test with strait dc to find out if the hv setup brings more with the small testplates, Tony?

steve

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: Stan's Resonant Frequency
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2011, 03:08:17 am »
Have anyone tried to apply a huge high voltage the way i'm proposing? and than collect the ions voltage?


I think this would be like the electret effect but on water and with means to discharge it to generate electrical energy as a by product.


I think that with the right electric field (field that will not get consumed) (water purity) the ions will fly towards the electrodes, that can be than discharged for generating the gases and electricity.


I think that i understood how meyer consume the electrons.


As he is applying only a field, is benefit from the photoelectric emission for this way the ions will need to eject from the water ionized as electrons ejected and got consumed in the air processor as free electrons as for cause the ionization of the ambient gases.


The hydrogen will certainly be of other character. I think that delrin could be a good material for the electrostatic electrode.  But thinking well a ceramic material with ultra high dielectric constant would be better.


The nice thing is that for generating electricity with a magnetic field you need movement. Electrostatic field, move ions (perform work) without get consumed, the result is an impressed voltage by the separation of the ions.


I think that the discharge time must be too fast.


Think like this, if the water RC constant is maybe 5000, It means that you charge the capacitor in 100us, and it discharges alone in 100us. So if you could charge the water in 100us than discharge the capacitor in maybe 1us into a coil to recycle the electricity, the voltage got into the capacitor did the work separating the ions and was discharged and got reused for doing further work.


Maybe stan didn't generated too much gas to run his car.


The thing now is measure the field force and use the ion mobility to find the needed field and maximum frequency of operation.




The time of the ions to move must be the same of the charge time of the capacitor. The frequency of the pulses will depend on the resonant tank, but the gate time is in accordance with the ions speed. 


A resonant tank will be needed not only to create the field but also as a mean for accumulating the refluxed energy. Man this thing i'm imagining is a bomb if i'm correct.


Is easy to have a 100kw capacity resonant tank to have the strong field and also would say that Is the best way to recycle the electricity generated.


Think like if the collector and anode was connected to a ultra fast switch and one turn of wire around the tank so when you discharge the energy goes to the tank. i think that meyer found a way to do it so economically that he didn't needed any tank, he just destabilized and his job was done.   


Maybe with anodized aluminum as the cathode?




The purer the water the lower is the frequency needed...





Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: Stan's Resonant Frequency
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2011, 03:25:09 am »
If the water capacitor have a 10000 ohms leakage resistance for a capacity of 2nf its RC constant is 50khz. So A tank for at least 500Khz would be needed to accommodate The discharges. And the plates should be positioned accordingly with the ions speed so be able to move them maybe with 10 pulses and rapidly discharge.


What i'm saying is that the tank will be the storage of energy and source at the same time.


I think meyer used the stainless steel wire for the fast discharge by time constant effects so it could allow more destabilization.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: Stan's Resonant Frequency
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2011, 06:05:38 am »
Does anyone here have an idea of how to calculate the time of the ion. I'm trying to figure it out but i need to know the field force to calculate the time will take to get the ions on the respective collectors.


I was thinking and Aluminum electrodes would help to reduce the frequency to a very high degree and if we could add another electrode on the other side maybe with another material witch its oxide also semiconductor but like aluminum but with reverse effect. We could double the force and therefore the ion speed.


What you want:


Strong electric field to attain High ion speed.
Lowest RC Frequency possible to improve the efficiency. (high resistance on the water and the oxide layer or plastic or ceramic) 
Big surface on the collectors, but allowing the field to cross the collectors.


One good thing about the aluminum is that the area of contact would increase.


Thinking still better possibly stan made this also to the air. Oxygen is not a dipole but as it has many electrons is known to be negative. Its also paramagnetic. So it does get attracted to the electrodes having high voltage, if you add a collector you will discharge the ions separated by the electric field without consuming the field. A magnetic field would also help on the deflection of the electrons if there is a movement.


I think that the EPG used the principle of acceleration by electric field too and as he was creating destabilized atoms WHen they pass into a magnetic field like he proposed, the atom will interact with the field cause it is a ion. The spin of the electron will change and thus the orbit will change so going into a energized state and all this only by the interaction of the magnetic field.


There is an effect called electric caloric effect and other called magneto caloric effect that tell you that when anything get into a field its molecules vibrates and so gets hot transferring energy from the orbit of the electron to the vibration (heat). So when you subject something to a field it will gets hotter than the ambient and thus after you take the field out the thing will be cooler than the ambient.


This have to do with the energy meyer talked about, cause when you extract heat energy from the atom you will definitely have more energy coming out.


He might have found that the explosion of destabilized ions and energized air would explode with a great excess energy.


So for making the gas to come out destabilized You need to get the electrons out of it and its a quite hard task. So if you discharge the ion not allowing the electron to arrive on the other side by thermo emission effect you not only create heat but create also an electric field a magnetic field that can be used to stop the electron movement, but a heating element having a low work function will emit electrons.


We need to learn how to calculate electron emission and understand a way to get them out of there.


I think that could be done by ionizing negatively the air. but i'm not sure if this is the way.


The thing is that the air processor if ionizes 1% of the air inside of it means that you have a dead short circuit just like on the water so only an electrostatic isolated field must be applied too. 




 

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: Stan's Resonant Frequency
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2011, 06:18:07 am »
I would also add that the faster you discharge a capacitor the greater is the current.


And adding a membrane would increase the resistance witch would help reduce the frequency but would also change the ion mobility somehow.


The benefit is that you can generate the gases separately.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: Stan's Resonant Frequency
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2011, 11:53:12 am »
I found that the H+ ions speed in water is 4.757 m/s This tell me that a cavity having 1mm should be gated at maximum 4.757khz so the tank voltage should be a multiple of this to facilitate things.


So the gate is where you will generate the gas and generate electricity.


If discharged thru emissive heating element, destabilized gases will be generated.


Non ohmic conduction don't follow ohms law.


The pulses could be than 50khz gated at 5khz...


The thing is first of all an electrical generator using electric field force as the creator of motion or creator of the energy.


I think that this is what stan mean by match the wavelength...


Now without the need to calculate for, apply the max voltage field possible as to allow max ion drift speed and get to find a way to gate it the way i'm saying and its done.


With the air than there are other factors but is pretty much the same thing but the H+ ion is very fast.


Another thing is that maybe we should do something with the electrons liberated to prevent them from returning to the gas as to keep it ionized.


The reaction occur so fast that the gas is generated without receiving the electrons.


Do you remember in the NewZ video where he say, if you have 100 amps and 100 volts you have 10kw of electricity?
That what i'm talking about again.   Voltage = to the work to bring the separated charges (kill the dipole) together.




The greater is the resistance of a material the faster the electrons (ions) drift speed. (in solids)


As the water has not fixed structure the ions positively charged can move too. Being the H+ the lighter and smaller ion its speed is the greater. The field force needed to move it is small cause its mass is very small.