Author Topic: WFC VIC  (Read 125826 times)

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Re: WFC VIC
« Reply #200 on: March 05, 2011, 16:00:00 pm »
Kali'
Your way off with your turns.
 
Here's the resistance values that I took from the coils with a Fluke meter.
Primary-10.5 ohms
Secondary and chokes-70-75 ohms
Feedback-11.5 ohms
 
Now 29 gauge wire measures 81.83 ohms per 1000 feet,so I come up with the following
 
Primary- 128 feet
Secondary and chokes- 884 feet
 
As for number of turns I come up with
Primary - 600-650 turns
Secondary and chokes - 3000-3500 turns
 
Because they are hand wound and not precision,these should be very close.
 
As for the 220 ohm resister,they were wired across the primary to restrict the current feeding it.10.5 ohms will make the coil heat up with 12 volts feeding it.Some of the coil pacts had three resistors across the primary,all of them were 220 ohm.The largest one was a 5 watt.
Don

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Re: WFC VIC
« Reply #201 on: March 05, 2011, 21:36:13 pm »
Thank you very very much. Again!
As from the picture and your dimensions I would have guessed, one coil was about 1 inch long and 7/8 inch thick, with an inner thickness of 1/2 inch. Seems, like they were actually a bit bigger.
You said:

Quote
Each leg was @ 2 1/2 inches long
So you didn't mean the complete inner leg (where the coils go on) of both u cores together with this value?
But 600 turns for the primary? If I look at the picture it's hard to believe, there are that many turns on that (well if it's bigger, that aren't that many layers anymore, makes sense).  Thank you again. It certainly makes sense, that the pickup has about the same Nr of turns as the primary. So as I understood you, the pickup was just one coil, not 2, like in the patent circuit. OK, that's not an important fact, I know...
So the Primary to Sec/Choke coil ratio was only about 1:5.

Were the resistors really across the primary or rather in series, which would make sense for a current restriction while driving. If they were across, they would have been rather an exchange for the freewheeling diode, which wouldn't make much sense.


But for me it's still very interesting, that all the coils had the same number of turns. Up until know, I always thought the secondary needs more turns. If it doesn't, the circuit has to work differently than I thought at first.


BTW: Am I the only one which cannot see any of Dons pics at the beginning of this thread?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 22:08:19 pm by Kali_ma_Amar »

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Re: WFC VIC
« Reply #202 on: March 06, 2011, 00:41:46 am »
Kali'
Your way off with your turns.
 
Here's the resistance values that I took from the coils with a Fluke meter.
Primary-10.5 ohms
Secondary and chokes-70-75 ohms
Feedback-11.5 ohms
 
Now 29 gauge wire measures 81.83 ohms per 1000 feet,so I come up with the following
 
Primary- 128 feet
Secondary and chokes- 884 feet
 
As for number of turns I come up with
Primary - 600-650 turns
Secondary and chokes - 3000-3500 turns
 
Because they are hand wound and not precision,these should be very close.
 
As for the 220 ohm resister,they were wired across the primary to restrict the current feeding it.10.5 ohms will make the coil heat up with 12 volts feeding it.Some of the coil pacts had three resistors across the primary,all of them were 220 ohm.The largest one was a 5 watt.
Don


Hello Don Thank you a lot for the info. When you say "220 ohm resister,they were wired across the primary to restrict the current feeding it.10.5 ohms will make the coil heat up with 12 volts feeding it.Some of the coil pacts had three resistors across the primary,all of them were 220 ohm."


What you mean, by across? Between the primary leads? They are in parallel? 220ohms is the resistance of all together or individual if more than one?


Is very interesting that he used 29AWG for the primary... I think that his thing consumed really very very low power...


Don what was the inductance of each choke? Did you measured the secondary + chokes? the primary...?


Kalli I can see the pictures normally try to check your browser configurations.






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Re: WFC VIC
« Reply #203 on: March 06, 2011, 08:30:08 am »
I personally guess he meant, they were wired in series. 3 220Ohm in parallel would be about 73Ohms. In series with the primary, a maximum of about 145mA through the primary would be achievable, which is really almost nothing?!?
BTW: I think it's funny, that the three resistors happen to have the same value as the three coils together ;D .


But I'm still puzzled by the overall figures. Namely, if the circuit was made like that, the voltage of one coil should never exceed the PIV of the diode, which is 600Volts. So if the circuit would develop any higher voltage, it would kill the diode. Sure the diode can usually withstand a bit more voltage, but not much. The voltage ratings are usually quite tight in semiconductors.
Actually Stan claimed the same in his patent description of this WFC circuit:
Quote
The diode, of course, is selected in accordance with the
maximum voltage encountered in the pulsing circuit. A 600
PIV fast switching diode, such as an NVR 1550 high speed
switching diode, has been found to be useful in the
circuit herein.
(As we know, the NVR 1550 is probably a text recognition error. Don told it was a MUR1560)


Or another statement in the same patent:
Quote
In a typical operation of the cell with a
representative water capacitor described below, at a
frequency of about 5 KHz at unipolar pulses from 0 to 650
volts at a sensed resonant condition into the resonant
cavity, conversion of about 5 gallons of water per hour
into a fuel gas will occur on average.


(in this sentence I'm still puzzled by the claim of conversion of 5 gallons of water in one hour in one such small cell. For if really that much could have been converted, he wouldn't have needed 10 WFCs of this size to power his car?!? And I would have my doubts if it's actually physically possible to generate that much gas and have the cell still working, as you would actually also have to get this gas out of the cell again. If he meant 5 gallons of gas, this would also be strange, for this, even with 10WFCs would never be enough to power a car. Maybe this was a hypothetical value, which he came upon by measuring the gas output when he just let the cell work for a short time. This would mean, it would be theoretically possible, but not be really practical, therefore he needed more cells.)


Now, if we look at the figures, you have given: A primary to sec/choke ratio of about 1:5, and a switching transistor (TIP120) which can only withstand 60Volts, you get some quite strange results. A 1:5 ratio would mean (without resonance), only 60volts (at 12v input) on the coils. With my circuits I get about a voltage magnification of 1:5 (on resonance), which would result in 300volts on the coils. Maybe by a good design you get higher here, say 10:1. Then you would have 600volts. And this would then also be the maximum of the diode. So in this relation the figures seem to fit. But this would really mean, that there was absolutely no "high" voltage in the circuit!?!?
Additionally, if we look again at the driving transistor: If the resonance-voltage-magnification-ratio would have been more than 1:4, then you would have had to protect the transistor. E.g. with a freewheeling diode, like in the patent circuit.
BTW: If there wouldn't be any resonance (capacities), the coils would now, due to the freewheeling diode also simply have this voltage ratio. E.g. if the voltage drop on the freewheeling diode would be 1.2V, then each coil would have -6Volts on it during off phase. Only due to the capacities in resonance this could be circumvented, and the freewheeling diode would then just draw quite some power again out of the resonator, which would decrease your attainable Q.
It's interesting, that the TIP120 does have an additional diode in reverse, similar to a Power-FET. This means, that an additional diode in series, like in his patent circuit would be needed, not to limit resonance during primary on.


From these figures I can only draw this conclusion: Either he didn't use high voltages in this circuit, but only to about 600volts (maybe a bit more), or he used another circuit-layout. What would have really interested me, would be, how the circuit card for the steam resonator looked alike. If the connectors were also just made for lower voltages, or if there HV-connectors were used?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 12:01:08 pm by Kali_ma_Amar »

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Re: WFC VIC
« Reply #204 on: March 06, 2011, 09:08:01 am »
Does anyone know the exact dimensions of the WFC cylinders, the slots? It's very important!
One guy suggests that WFC is a microwave waveguide. We can try this hypothesis. http://www.meanders.ru/meiers1.shtml (Russian)

2-e important condition - to stimulate the process of gas a coherent source of light (UV and IR).


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Re: WFC VIC
« Reply #205 on: March 06, 2011, 09:14:45 am »
Are there any specialists of microwave waveguides on site? I'm interesting to their opinion.

Sorry for my English  :)

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Re: WFC VIC
« Reply #206 on: March 06, 2011, 09:19:14 am »
Kali'
Your way off with your turns.
 
Here's the resistance values that I took from the coils with a Fluke meter.
Primary-10.5 ohms
Secondary and chokes-70-75 ohms
Feedback-11.5 ohms
 
Now 29 gauge wire measures 81.83 ohms per 1000 feet,so I come up with the following
 
Primary- 128 feet
Secondary and chokes- 884 feet
 
As for number of turns I come up with
Primary - 600-650 turns
Secondary and chokes - 3000-3500 turns
 
Because they are hand wound and not precision,these should be very close.
 
As for the 220 ohm resister,they were wired across the primary to restrict the current feeding it.10.5 ohms will make the coil heat up with 12 volts feeding it.Some of the coil pacts had three resistors across the primary,all of them were 220 ohm.The largest one was a 5 watt.
Don

 
For mutual inductance, measure the inductance of the primary and secondary in series, and then interchange the connections of one winding for a second reading. Apply the equation below:
M=1/4 (Lserries+  minus Lserries-)

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Re: WFC VIC
« Reply #207 on: March 06, 2011, 10:08:34 am »
@newguy: I think this is too late. Don hasn't access to the original VIC anymore.


Quote
One guy suggests that WFC is a microwave waveguide.
I'm no  specialist in waveguides, but IMHO the frequencies which would be involved in this theory are that ridiculously high and far from Stans used frequencies (<=10KHz), that I personally do not believe in this waveguide theory. But everybody is free to try.
One thing is strange, though. Although the guy says to have read Stans patents, he says, Stan doesn't indicate the frequencies used, and that he guesses, they were below 50MHz. But Stan actually stated often the used frequencies. So I'm a bit puzzled about that.


Quote
Kalli I can see the pictures normally try to check your browser configurations.
That's strange. I tried it with Opera and Firefox. Both are not able to load the picture.
E.g. My browsers are not able to load this picture: http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1513.0;attach=6228
I can load Pic Nr 6227 and 6229, but not 6228. There I just do not get any response from the server...
« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 10:43:09 am by Kali_ma_Amar »