Author Topic: spark timing for implosion?  (Read 8486 times)

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Re: spark timing for implosion?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2010, 07:44:58 am »
just a point in fact in order for it to be steam you will need heat. If there is no heat there is no steam. Once water splits it occupies more "space" than the water did. but your implosion method is flaw in 2 ways. For this to work you would need to do the molecule splitting intside the cylinder and it would need to be full. The full part also relates to the recombination of the water as if its not a pure mix (ie ambient is added) it is no longer implosive.
Thats my recolection of how it works, feel free to tell me i am wrong though :)

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Re: spark timing for implosion?
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2010, 10:40:43 am »
i hate this forum, second time my post got deleted and isn't shown  >:(

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Re: spark timing for implosion?
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2010, 10:43:37 am »
Sorry let me reword,
A certain amount of heat is required. Now if you can disperse the heat over that point then your in business... also the process of liquid to gas has a cooling effect :)

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Re: spark timing for implosion?
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2010, 11:19:37 am »

Therefore as water was previously gas before exploding i really think that it will become only superheated steam... 
 
However lets calculate further ...
I do agree as i said that the released heat will probably be enough to convert the water into steam. However
1. how long will it be steam before it has given the heat off to the surrounding environment (chassis) and condenses?
2. the expansion water to gas will make 1860 volume-units out of 1 volume-unit. steam however, depending on temperature, will have less than 1860 volume-units for 1 volume-unit of water -> underpressure


The molecules would not need to be split inside the cylinder, but it would be of advantage:
1. water drops in (when piston is at top center)
2. electricity through it, water drops expand, pressure moves piston down
3. when piston is down (shortly after bottom center), ignite the gas -> water/steam conversion, pressure sinking rapidly (assumption), heat created
4. underpressure sucks piston up
5. repeat


I'm sure this would not work because of some mistake, i didn't look into a thermodynamics book and probably someone else has thought this through already.


It seems that there is an explosion, then an implosion overall:




edit: oh wow hho + steam:
Nice channel, someone uses a 1000FPS camera.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 12:33:35 pm by haithar »

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Re: spark timing for implosion?
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2010, 16:28:40 pm »
Haitar,


You know what? I think that maybe you are kind right. Think with me:


There was a paper i read that tell you to change the moment of the spark. Maybe a little bit after the compression cycle. I don't remember exactly... maybe is because water somehow lose its energy and become liquid... If you get to think, the heat of fusion of water is 40kj per gram. So if we have -241kJ per 18g = 13kj gram is way less energy than 40kj gram... so if we could find a way to make this water to give its heat of to the air making it to become liquid we would have 13kj+40kj per gram of water. You understand what i mean? 

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Re: spark timing for implosion?
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2010, 16:41:40 pm »
Wow maybe thats why meyer heated the water. (to adjust the point where it would kind give all its energy and become cool liquid....


And maybe thats why he used ionized gas. (to allow for a grater conduction of heat inside the engine)


Maybe

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Re: spark timing for implosion?
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2010, 17:26:03 pm »
« Last Edit: July 31, 2010, 03:57:53 am by carbidetip »

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Re: spark timing for implosion?
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2010, 18:33:13 pm »
Carbide


could you explain?
How much hho you putting in ?
Temperature?
how much vacuum is it creating?


Thanks