Author Topic: 6.5hp generator made ready for HHO  (Read 33425 times)

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Re: 6.5hp generator made ready for HHO
« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2010, 21:33:10 pm »
Thanks Steve,
did you smell any amonia type smells as the Anton people do in the exhaust. That would support your theory.
I have over many years built cells. I was fortunate 3 years ago to travel extensively throught North America and meet up with many cell builders and experimentors.
In North America I was employed for a few months testing HHO injection into big and small diesels doing many tests using emmissions equipment and dyno's. I am happy to discuss the results of that with you by email but rather not in a public forum as much of the info is owned by the companies that paid me.
I have had little experience in running small engines on HHO but the results the Anton people interested me. The main reasons as i have never seen a cell do better than Faradays. most are at best 85% efficient. So in a closed loop situation given a small ICE is say 25% efficent you would need at least 4 times the efficency of faradays to produce the gas or have a super efficient ICE.
I intend to start experimenting myself (I have many cells in my shed) and see if it is possible to get a self runner or possibly a self runner with just a small amount of hydrocarbons.
my email is
markdansie@bigpond.com
skype is markdansie (nsw australia)
Kind Regards
and many thanks
Mark

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Re: 6.5hp generator made ready for HHO
« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2010, 22:06:30 pm »
Hi Mark,
 
 
You are correct that if you are able to make a selfrunner, you do something very efficient   ;)
The Anton cell is less efficient then my current drycell btw.. 8) 
However, i couldnot replicate what they said could be done. I have now 3 years experience with cells and engines. I have my doubts about their claim.
Their topics on Stefan's forum are too silence for people having a selfrunner, is it....
 
Steve

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Re: 6.5hp generator made ready for HHO
« Reply #50 on: September 07, 2010, 23:07:28 pm »
Steve the range of 2-3l / HP wasn't recommended by the Anton guys, they more or less did what other users of the forum told them, for example 'Walter Hofmann' who has videos up for a few years and is running his generator on hydrogen too. He also posted several photos and many posts about what he did.
if you can't get your generator to run on HHO at all (even without self running) there is possibly something wrong with gas or generator? There's a thread on the overunity forums in which someone couldn't get his generator to run on gas either, i'll see if i can find it.
or is it running okay now but does not self sustain?

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Re: 6.5hp generator made ready for HHO
« Reply #51 on: September 07, 2010, 23:16:14 pm »
it is interesting how people derive how much HHO per HP they need. Oten they may idle say a 2hp under no load and use say 4 litres per minute and calculate they only need 2 litres per minute. But if the engine is not under load it might only be using .5 hp.
In commercial hydrogen gensets they work out 5 litres per minute per HP of pure hydrogen. Given we have a lot of O2 mixed in and a few other unknowns and therories I would suspect it is around 3 to 4 litres per minute required.
My only concern with the Anton people is they seem very reluctant to have a 3rd party validation. I am not sure if what they have achieved is real or not but i have seen a lot of people cheting in the past by adding hydrocarbons in the bubbler and even more sophisticated than that.
I am really looking to seeing results with ioniser.
Mark

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Re: 6.5hp generator made ready for HHO
« Reply #52 on: September 07, 2010, 23:32:47 pm »
it is interesting how people derive how much HHO per HP they need. Oten they may idle say a 2hp under no load and use say 4 litres per minute and calculate they only need 2 litres per minute. But if the engine is not under load it might only be using .5 hp.
In commercial hydrogen gensets they work out 5 litres per minute per HP of pure hydrogen. Given we have a lot of O2 mixed in and a few other unknowns and therories I would suspect it is around 3 to 4 litres per minute required.
My only concern with the Anton people is they seem very reluctant to have a 3rd party validation. I am not sure if what they have achieved is real or not but i have seen a lot of people cheting in the past by adding hydrocarbons in the bubbler and even more sophisticated than that.
I am really looking to seeing results with ioniser.
Mark
they do it empirically. i only quoted one user, who says more or less the same every time and whose statements have until now proven to be true (regarding the electrolyser part).




I heard the Anton guys allowed some forum members who they have been in contact with for several years to watch the generator. Don't know it or them though. I have been active on the forum there for 6 months now and they appear quite philosophic and probably gullible, but they obviously put a lot of work and time into it. One of them is an engineer and knows what he's saying (what i've read so far).  They don't appear to be scammers either, so i trust it enough to give it a try myself.
My time's running out though, i'll move in march next year and i can get 5,5l - 6l out of my cell at best, my generator is 1,7kW max, probably >4HP motor.




By the way, the 4min video of the self-sustaining setup, they use ~450W to run the generator (1kW max generator as far as i know), which is something like 3l/min. The first 50sec self-sustain video shows 370W of power for electrolysis, apparently enough to run itself.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 23:55:04 pm by haithar »

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Re: 6.5hp generator made ready for HHO
« Reply #53 on: September 08, 2010, 00:13:37 am »
Steve the range of 2-3l / HP wasn't recommended by the Anton guys, they more or less did what other users of the forum told them, for example 'Walter Hofmann' who has videos up for a few years and is running his generator on hydrogen too. He also posted several photos and many posts about what he did.
if you can't get your generator to run on HHO at all (even without self running) there is possibly something wrong with gas or generator? There's a thread on the overunity forums in which someone couldn't get his generator to run on gas either, i'll see if i can find it.
or is it running okay now but does not self sustain?

My engine runs well on HHO only, but cannot sustain it self, Haithar...
 
 

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Re: 6.5hp generator made ready for HHO
« Reply #54 on: September 08, 2010, 00:25:03 am »
Hi hailthar
I feel the same as you that they could be geniuine(well I like to believe they are).
was that your motor on the video you posted where yo put 10cc of gasoline in it and ran it for 5 minutes?
Mark

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Re: 6.5hp generator made ready for HHO
« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2010, 01:37:43 am »
One of the Anton group said something about modifing the engine into a way that the explosion and implosion mustnt work against eachother....
So i went reading.
 
This i found:
 
 
 
"Does Brown's Gas implode ?"

Among the "wonderful" properties of "Brown's Gas" is that when ignited it doesn't explode, it implodes. That is, the reaction product has a smaller volume than the initial gas mixture. Is this true? Is it remarkable? The answers to these two questions are "Not exactly" and "No." Brown's Gas is that you get if you electrolyze water and keep the resulting hydrogen and oxygen mixed together. Let me make two important comments at this point. One is that it would be extremely hazardous to store any large quantity of Brown's Gas, either at atmospheric pressure or in compressed form. A spark, or the presence of any material which catalyzes the hydrogen/oxygen reaction, will cause a devastating explosion. The second comment is that all the energy which comes from burning Brown's Gas was put into it by the electrical energy used to electrolyze the water. In a loose sense, since Brown's Gas could be used as fuel for an engine and, since Brown's Gas is made from water, one could say that one was running a car on water. However, the power driving the car is coming entirely from the electrical input, not from the water. A car "driven" by Brown's Gas would either have to carry a large tank of compressed gas (see my point one) or drag a long power cord behind it. If you had electrical power available you would be much, much better off driving the car with an electric motor than fooling around with a gas generator and a gas powered motor.
   So does Brown's Gas explode? Yes, of course it does. As it happens, in my foolhardy youth I once filled a polyethylene bag with a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen and lit it from a safe distance. It exploded very satisfactorily and made a very loud boom. Many of NASA's rockets, including the Space Shuttle, burn hydrogen and oxygen. If Brown's Gas always imploded, the rockets would be sucked into the ground.
What you may have seen, and I have seen, is some Brown's Gas being put into a cylinder and then being ignited. The piston in the cylinder is sucked in with a thump. However, if the piston was free to move outwards it would fly across the room. Brown's Gas would be great in spud guns. When ignited, Brown's Gas explodes, that is it burns rapidly, generating hot, high pressure gas, in this case, water vapor. Because it is inside a long, narrow, room temperature cylinder the water vapor rapidly condenses into liquid water, heating the cylinder as it does so. Since the water has much less volume than the hot vapor the pressure inside the cylinder drops suddenly, pulling in the piston. The cylinder heats up in the process, the heat energy from the burning Brown's Gas has to go somewhere. If the experiment were to be repeated, for example in a continuously operating engine, the cylinder would get hotter and hotter and eventually the internal pressure would blow it apart. So the answers are: Does Brown's Gas implode? No, Brown's Gas explodes like any other combustible gas mixture. Is this remarkable? No, except that in this case the combustion product, water, readily condenses to a liquid.