Author Topic: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation  (Read 10294 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
« on: June 29, 2010, 01:50:05 am »
New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation:

A Parallel Resonant Circuit herein called tank circuit by its ability to Recirculate and accumulate power in it self, Is known to have also very high impedance at the resonant frequency.

Stan told us that he was using only voltage to break water and that to do so he needed to restrict the current...

While I was doing all my tests about the resonant tank i tried to add to the tank in series and in parallel the cell for trying to generate the h2. I did a many tests as I could imagine and that my and collaborators money allowed me. However just came to my mind something i couldn't and didn't had the idea to test. And Is based on the proposed EEC diagram that meyer posted.

The idea Is all about to charge a resonant tank and than to discharge the tank energy into the water in a particular way.

I will explain better:

Inductance for the more it can behave like a short circuit because of it's low ohmic resistance on its wires, is far less "short circuit" than a Capacitor. Capacitors have negative impedance and it behave like a vacuum sealed compartment that when you open, immediately is replenished with air, capacitors replenish with charge and thats why it is more short than an inductance.

What i'm proposing is.

1° charge resonant tank
2° disconnect the capacitor from the tank when the energy is concentrated into the coil
3° connect or close the circuit (inductance) into the water cell having distilled water there.

Why this could be different?

He clearly said that restrict the current was needed and repeatedly claimed  inductance was going to do it.

Point of greatest importance:

A capacitor discharge, discharge all its energy with negative impedance.
An inductance would discharge its energy restricting the current with its positive reactance. (not allowing the current to discharge all in once)

That could change the things as it would really create an electric field that could make physical work on the water. 

What do you think about?

Participate Answering to the pool and proposing circuit simulation that could help with this. Edit your older posts cleaning useless informations to help the thread to be organized and clear enough for a first time reader. OK?
Thanks
Best Regards






Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2010, 03:40:58 am »
There is still another thing i thought today...

Its about ionization.

Today in a chemistry lesson I learned about acids. I learned that an acid will dissociate in aqueous solution into hydrogen ions H3O+ and Anions example H2SO4- will dissociate into 2H+ and SO4- Anion.

Ok why is it related?

Do you remember when i said that we could just need to find a way to pass the amperage thru the water at a lower than 1,23 volts for it to be overunity?
 
Well i noticed some relation to the ionization of the water mentioned and all that 4th stage of ionization (myth) with cations or anions with charges of +4 or -4

For example in my tests with the cell in series with the "tank" i got the min voltage across the cell to be 1,44 volts and i was using steel electrodes. I was using NaOH- witch is a base and dissociate forming OH- ions and Na+ cations.

The periodic table is very magic and it have cool proprieties witch allow us to know the propriety the element have accordingly to its position. Things like electronegativity, Atomic weight, size, How much electrons it can gain or lose... For example all the elements on the left column (excluding H) are called bases metals and they only link with 1 electron pair thats why NaOH-.  +-

What i'm thinking is that meyer said clearly that stainless steel was indispensable and that faraday would have not discovered his process because there was no stainless steel at his time.

This lead us to think two things

1° that he was using an acid as electrolyte ( as it wont corrode stainless steel) ( he also affirmed that ( because it would not take part into the reaction or something like that)
2° that he was using ultra pure water and didn't wanted it to dissolve iron ions..

The second is less supported by info we have however...

My teacher said that there are acids and cations that can have up to 4+ charge and 4- charge...

That took my attention!

What if a combination of acids and or bases and salts could switch of the covalent bounding???
What if some acid that would attack steel or iron witch were the electrodes faraday had at his time could change the parameters of electrolysis allowing lower voltage to be applied????.

Ferrocianidric acid dissociates into -4 ions and some other 6 acids

phosphoric acid dissociate into -2 or -3 ions (not sure now need to open the book now)

Barium hydroxide dissociate into 2+ i guess

and so on

What i would like to do is to rebuild my "tank" setup with different cells electrodes shapes materials and configurations and acids bases and salts in all possible proportions to check if have something to do with it.

Regards

Online Login to see usernames

  • Administrator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4440
    • water structure and science
Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2010, 20:52:23 pm »
New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation:

A Parallel Resonant Circuit herein called tank circuit by its ability to Recirculate and accumulate power in it self, Is known to have also very high impedance at the resonant frequency.

Stan told us that he was using only voltage to break water and that to do so he needed to restrict the current...

While I was doing all my tests about the resonant tank i tried to add to the tank in series and in parallel the cell for trying to generate the h2. I did a many tests as I could imagine and that my and collaborators money allowed me. However just came to my mind something i couldn't and didn't had the idea to test. And Is based on the proposed EEC diagram that meyer posted.

The idea Is all about to charge a resonant tank and than to discharge the tank energy into the water in a particular way.

I will explain better:

Inductance for the more it can behave like a short circuit because of it's low ohmic resistance on its wires, is far less "short circuit" than a Capacitor. Capacitors have negative impedance and it behave like a vacuum sealed compartment that when you open, immediately is replenished with air, capacitors replenish with charge and thats why it is more short than an inductance.

What i'm proposing is.

1° charge resonant tank
2° disconnect the capacitor from the tank when the energy is concentrated into the coil
3° connect or close the circuit (inductance) into the water cell having distilled water there.

Why this could be different?

He clearly said that restrict the current was needed and repeatedly claimed  inductance was going to do it.

Point of greatest importance:

A capacitor discharge, discharge all its energy with negative impedance.
An inductance would discharge its energy restricting the current with its positive reactance. (not allowing the current to discharge all in once)

That could change the things as it would really create an electric field that could make physical work on the water. 

What do you think about?

Participate Answering to the pool and proposing circuit simulation that could help with this. Edit your older posts cleaning useless informations to help the thread to be organized and clear enough for a first time reader. OK?
Thanks
Best Regards

Fabio,

I tried and many others to discharge a capacitor into a wfc.
I ll guess that discharging a coil will be similair and will happen as quickly as the resistance will allow it to do.

For sure a circuit like will restrict the charging power towards to tank circuit.

regards
Steve







Online Login to see usernames

  • Administrator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4440
    • water structure and science
Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2010, 20:59:33 pm »
There is still another thing i thought today...

Its about ionization.

Today in a chemistry lesson I learned about acids. I learned that an acid will dissociate in aqueous solution into hydrogen ions H3O+ and Anions example H2SO4- will dissociate into 2H+ and SO4- Anion.

Ok why is it related?

Do you remember when i said that we could just need to find a way to pass the amperage thru the water at a lower than 1,23 volts for it to be overunity?
 
Well i noticed some relation to the ionization of the water mentioned and all that 4th stage of ionization (myth) with cations or anions with charges of +4 or -4

For example in my tests with the cell in series with the "tank" i got the min voltage across the cell to be 1,44 volts and i was using steel electrodes. I was using NaOH- witch is a base and dissociate forming OH- ions and Na+ cations.

The periodic table is very magic and it have cool proprieties witch allow us to know the propriety the element have accordingly to its position. Things like electronegativity, Atomic weight, size, How much electrons it can gain or lose... For example all the elements on the left column (excluding H) are called bases metals and they only link with 1 electron pair thats why NaOH-.  +-

What i'm thinking is that meyer said clearly that stainless steel was indispensable and that faraday would have not discovered his process because there was no stainless steel at his time.

This lead us to think two things

1° that he was using an acid as electrolyte ( as it wont corrode stainless steel) ( he also affirmed that ( because it would not take part into the reaction or something like that)
2° that he was using ultra pure water and didn't wanted it to dissolve iron ions..

The second is less supported by info we have however...

My teacher said that there are acids and cations that can have up to 4+ charge and 4- charge...

That took my attention!

What if a combination of acids and or bases and salts could switch of the covalent bounding???
What if some acid that would attack steel or iron witch were the electrodes faraday had at his time could change the parameters of electrolysis allowing lower voltage to be applied????.

Ferrocianidric acid dissociates into -4 ions and some other 6 acids

phosphoric acid dissociate into -2 or -3 ions (not sure now need to open the book now)

Barium hydroxide dissociate into 2+ i guess

and so on

What i would like to do is to rebuild my "tank" setup with different cells electrodes shapes materials and configurations and acids bases and salts in all possible proportions to check if have something to do with it.

Regards

Yes, i do remember our discussion about trieing to lower the voltage as much a possible with help of a better material use. Possible another acid or metal could help a lot.
The latest tests on many other forum where done with peepower...........(urine) which works pretty nice. The smell however......hehehehehehe.

Stan have said many things.....

Steve





Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2010, 04:09:27 am »
Steve it's incredible this seems a confirmation of my theory!

"Gerardine Botte of Ohio University uses an electrolytic approach to produce hydrogen from urine - the most abundant waste on Earth - at a fraction of the cost of producing hydrogen from water.
Urine's major constituent is urea, which incorporates four hydrogen atoms per molecule - importantly, less tightly bonded than the hydrogen atoms in water molecules.
Botte uses electrolysis to break the molecule apart, developing an inexpensive new nickel-based electrode to selectively and efficiently oxidise the urea. To break the molecule down, a voltage of 0.37V needs to be applied across the cell - much less than the 1.23V needed to split water.
Her work is described in the Royal Society of Chemistry journal Chemical Communications.
“During the electrochemical process the urea gets adsorbed on to the nickel electrode surface, which passes the electrons needed to break up the molecule,” Botte told Chemistry World."

http://www.physorg.com/news165836803.html


Online Login to see usernames

  • Administrator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4440
    • water structure and science
Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2010, 19:58:28 pm »
Fabio,
 
If you have some time, then go read the topic of Larry.
He tried urea and nickelplates
http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=5932&highlight=urea
 

Steve

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3607
Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2010, 18:44:18 pm »
Hi steve, cool but i think would split only the urea don't?


However I got more infos to tweek our minds...


I want to come back to Stan messing up with ionization word meaning ...


Today i got a lesson about bases and salts...


There are bases like


NaOH-
Ba(OH)2
Fe(OH)3


This when in aqueous solution ionize and become



NaOH-     ----------+H2O------====   Na+ (aq) + OH-
Ba(OH)2  ---------+H2O------====  Ba2+ (aq) + 2OH-
Fe(OH)3 ---------+H20-------==== Fe3+ (aq) + 3OH-




I'm believing that the way find Stan secret is:


1 Build My proposed Resonant tank. Comprising huge inductor ( 1mh about 30meters of wire about 5mm thick and + home built rolled capacitor with polypropylene film and copper foil...    )
2 Build 2 stainless steel cells comprising one inside and one outside tube for each cell. (with antiparallel diodes as i proposed) 
3 Add a multimeter in parallel with the cells and try every type of electrolyte!!!!!!


When you find an electrolyte (acid, base or salts) or combination thereof that makes the voltage on the cells to drop under 1,24 volts just JUMP AND CELEBRATE!!! and Tell us...


Regards...


To operate probably the resonant tank wont be necessary if you make it series cell, however to discover the right electrolyte will be needed because is the only way to have the current to pass thru the water with min possible voltage...


 
 

Online Login to see usernames

  • Administrator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4440
    • water structure and science
Re: New theory about Stanley High voltage Water dissociation
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2010, 22:49:21 pm »
Hi steve, cool but i think would split only the urea don't?


However I got more infos to tweek our minds...


I want to come back to Stan messing up with ionization word meaning ...


Today i got a lesson about bases and salts...


There are bases like


NaOH-
Ba(OH)2
Fe(OH)3


This when in aqueous solution ionize and become



NaOH-     ----------+H2O------====   Na+ (aq) + OH-
Ba(OH)2  ---------+H2O------====  Ba2+ (aq) + 2OH-
Fe(OH)3 ---------+H20-------==== Fe3+ (aq) + 3OH-




I'm believing that the way find Stan secret is:


1 Build My proposed Resonant tank. Comprising huge inductor ( 1mh about 30meters of wire about 5mm thick and + home built rolled capacitor with polypropylene film and copper foil...    )
2 Build 2 stainless steel cells comprising one inside and one outside tube for each cell. (with antiparallel diodes as i proposed) 
3 Add a multimeter in parallel with the cells and try every type of electrolyte!!!!!!


When you find an electrolyte (acid, base or salts) or combination thereof that makes the voltage on the cells to drop under 1,24 volts just JUMP AND CELEBRATE!!! and Tell us...


Regards...


To operate probably the resonant tank wont be necessary if you make it series cell, however to discover the right electrolyte will be needed because is the only way to have the current to pass thru the water with min possible voltage...

Hi my friend from Brasil  :)
 
As you know, i tried to copy your setup and i had similair results.
The whole circuit was in resonance, but the funny thing is that the wfc tubes consume amps and they take that power from the tank circuit.
And of course we have to add power to the tank circuit and that is equal to the consumed power from the wfc tubes and the heat loss from the tank circuit.
 
The circuit is nice, but it is less efficient then a good drycell and for me that path stops for the moment.
 
The search for better materials is always a topic which stays interesting.
I must say that with my drycell NAOH is still a good one. So is KOH.
On my low amp situation NAOH is a bit better.....
 
 
Steve