Author Topic: Timing  (Read 4255 times)

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Timing
« on: March 03, 2010, 19:35:36 pm »
Hey guy's  I'm new to this site,  very intrested in hho.  My background is in performance, race and marine engines.  My question is has anyone changed  cam/valve timing to work with hydrogen?  Im wondering if the valve overlap could be decreased to enhance power output.  Most engines I've seen running on hho don't have any load on them.  Ideling or higher rpm with no load.

I'm working on a 2.5 hp  single cylinder engine that I would like to convert over to hho.  I welded and reshaped the combustion chamber and moved the spark plug location for what I think would be optimal.  The next step is to change the cam timing.  Any thoughts ?

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Re: Timing
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2010, 20:40:18 pm »
Yes, you can change the timing to just after top dead center to accommodate the burn rate of HHO. Two problems arise... The HHO is more of a percussionary combustion than an incindiary like gasoline. Like you have seen before, it is relatively simple to run a motor on HHO until you put a load on it or try to throttle it. HHO has a small combustion window compared to gasoline making it difficult to keep the proper air/fuel mix ratio. HHO needs to be a 2:1 ratio or it won't combust. The other problem is the low torque which can be remedied with water injection much like they already do in race and performance vehicles. Address these issues and you may have a winner! Good luck!

Bubz
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 20:59:05 pm by Bubz »

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Re: Timing
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2010, 20:41:40 pm »
Welcome!

Changing the timing is not required if you change the burn rate of the Hydrogen. This is done by recycling exhaust gasses (key point: non-combustible gases, which exhaust gases are indeed) back into the fuel mixture. This will slow down and modulate the burn rate and temperature. You can match the burning characteristics of diesel, gasoline, propane, or even leaves and paper with this method. Therefore it is not required to change the configuration of any internal combustion engine.

This information is from Stanley Meyer's Documentation and Videos, which are all available on this forum.

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Re: Timing
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2010, 20:57:52 pm »
LOL! Your stealing my thunder Donald!  ;)

But, yes, Donald said what I was gonna eventually get to.

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Re: Timing
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2010, 23:16:25 pm »
 Most engine's  intake valve opens before top dead center.  The exhaust valve opens well before bottom dead center.  There is a period of time (overlap) when both valves are open.  My thoughts are to shoten the duration on the cam and take advantage of a more complete burn.  Also I would expect the engine make more torque at a lower rpm and would not need to rpm as high.  You would think there would be a less chance of a backfire as well. 

I'm sure  mr. Meyers had a reason for using an aircooled engine, can anyone help me understand  if there was a reason other than cost?

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Re: Timing
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2010, 23:20:40 pm »
I'm sorry guy's I was refering to valve timing. 

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Re: Timing
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2010, 00:09:18 am »
Donald's answer still applies. If you are able to tune your camshaft to gasoline, you would not need to change anything if you just used the exhaust gasses to adjust the burn rate of the HHO to the same as gasoline. If you do not do this, then yes, you would be much better off modifying your valve timing. I would think it much easier with EGR, but that is a personal call on any given situation.

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Re: Timing
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2010, 05:08:06 am »
I think Stan used the VW engine and the dune buggy because it allowed a simple and representative application of the technology to an automobile, while leaving everything exposed and easily accessible, nothing "under the hood", since the dune buggy has an exposed engine.

He shows his systems being installed on several Aircraft and high performance race cars, so the specific engine type is not critical at all.

Here's the general math for how much HHO you are going to need.

Water is 2.5x as powerful as Gasoline.

If your engine gets 30 mpg at 60 mph, then you are using 2 gallons per hour of gasoline, so you need 2.5x less water which would be 0.8 gallons.

When you split the water, it expands roughly 1800 times, so when you split this 0.8 gallons of water, you'll have 1440 gallons of HHO per hour, or 24 gallons per minute. (91 liters per minute) ... based on this example from my initial assumption of 30 mpg at 60 mph.

Now you can do the math to find out how much volume of air fuel mixture your engine needs, considering the HHO requires no air for combustion, the rest of the volume is extra ambient air and recycled exhaust gasses.