Author Topic: Finaly getting results  (Read 18222 times)

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Re: Finaly getting results
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2010, 23:58:01 pm »
This is gonna require more than that if you are to do it without running into a wall of impossiblity .


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-frequency_drive

You basicly need a high frequency synchronous motor and a high current 3 phase drive if you want anything remotly efficient  past the 400 hz AND controllable with a knob wich is a must , you also need alot of series batteries or an massive house dc supply . Single phase motors should be avoided because theres less torque for the same amount of energy. We are talking a minimum of 1000 watts and lots of money here with the most efficient technique . Use a single phase chopper pwm with a pulley and you will hit the torque maxima , go too fast and you might break the alternator , its basicly hell on earth . Just running this @ 400 hz with house current is an achievement on its own , nice Job Komtek .


Either that or you go linear amplification , but that too has its problems specially with those big parallel caps in the Stephen Meyers system , you basicly need a 0 feedback amp or some compensation with loads of current gain to get those transistor nice and full and keep that nice sine wave , add the bias to that and you see the efficieny dropping and snowball overheating issues come into play ... Quite complex .
« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 00:19:56 am by Dankie »

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Re: Finaly getting results
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2010, 00:38:25 am »
Steve you say all the voltage above 2volts is making steam?
Then all the foam is totally relateable to steam?

If so I do not understand why the steam is in small bubble form.?
That foam is like an entrapment of a combination of process, steam, and hydroxyl.

Maybe I should try to get the pump connected and check but I think there's plenty of hydroxyl locked into those bubbles.
Will have to work on some connections to pump in and or out in the near future to learn about this foam stuff more.
Its a parasite and everyone using multiple tubes has ran into it, I'm sure.
(Maybe a good test would be to connect the tubes in series?).

Many things would not make sense if its all steam, why are people making hi-voltage alternators for tube sets.
Its not all steam! (Needs to be looked into some more).   
« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 01:14:58 am by komtek »

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Re: Finaly getting results
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2010, 01:11:59 am »
Measure the temp? if it's steam it will have a high temp, that'll settle it. I don't think it's steam though.

I wouldn't really worry about the trapped bubbles too much, because the water is only going to hold so much once it start running, and then all the production after that saturation point is going to be forced out... so if it takes 5 minutes to saturate with bubbles, all the gas coming out after that would not be trapped...

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Re: Finaly getting results
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2010, 01:27:10 am »
I agree if there's a lot of steam temp will rise.
Have ran it maybe 20-30 minute tests and havn't noticed a temp change.
Only measuring the outside with a IR thermometer.

The saturation point sounds good and you can see the stuff already going back into the tube sets.
It still makes me want to find a filtering method because it does happen.
Makes me wonder about a hi-voltage static filtering device that Meyer used.

Will work on one step at a time.

Also that speed control that Askmehhow pointed out may have possibilities. Very affordable. 

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Re: Finaly getting results
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2010, 04:37:09 am »
I think the foam is a good thing! It's possible that when the bubbles are circulated back though the tubes the gases may be ionized. It takes about 20Kv to ionize oxygen but, on the other hand, hydrogen can be easily ionized around 12-15V. I have no real proof this is what may be happening as the bubbles recirculate through the cell until I find an ion detector for an actual measurement of some sort. Also, pressure may have a role in the overall process. Thank you for the frequency measurements!

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Re: Finaly getting results
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2010, 10:06:12 am »
Steve you say all the voltage above 2volts is making steam?
Then all the foam is totally relateable to steam?

If so I do not understand why the steam is in small bubble form.?
That foam is like an entrapment of a combination of process, steam, and hydroxyl.

Maybe I should try to get the pump connected and check but I think there's plenty of hydroxyl locked into those bubbles.
Will have to work on some connections to pump in and or out in the near future to learn about this foam stuff more.
Its a parasite and everyone using multiple tubes has ran into it, I'm sure.
(Maybe a good test would be to connect the tubes in series?).

Many things would not make sense if its all steam, why are people making hi-voltage alternators for tube sets.
Its not all steam! (Needs to be looked into some more).

Steam or watervapour.
Thats all you get above 2V.
Dont forget....you do electrolysis and nothing else, so all the laws for that proces count.
The funny thing with wfc's is that if you apply a higher voltage, your wfc will pull more amps and thats good. But your efficiency will drop dramatically, because all volts above 2v create watervapour/steam.
At the end, you will have a mix of HHO and H2O. Its burnable, but not comparable with a wfc who is doing electrolysis between the 1.5 and 2.5V per cell.

Because you work with electrodes in a BIG bucket of water, the temp will not rise very quickly. The heat is consumed by the water reservoir.
I had the same foam, and if you burn that foam, you will get a big bang, because of the hydrogen, which is trapped in there.

About Bubz point, i had 3KV across my HHO gas and i didnt see any change in flame color, height or temp.
So, what make you think you can ionize hydrogen at 12V and what would you expect as results?
Just curious... ;)


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Re: Finaly getting results
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2010, 16:14:49 pm »
What your calling foam is actually hydroxy gas.I wouldn't call it foam.Foam would be what shows up on top of the water.If your talking about the white tiny bubbles in the water,then thats hydroxy,and thats normal.The scum that builds up on top of the water would be considered foam.
Don

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Re: Finaly getting results
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2010, 20:10:02 pm »
Seems to me out of the hundreds perhaps thousands of experimenters of this early tube set-up had run into the tiny white bubbles and there are no posts anywhere suggesting processing or reprocessing to further this.

The tiny bubbles are contained in sticky water surface tensions that have properties. Minerals, chlorides, florides or whatever.
Also it appears that they are split but not split to freedom meaning they wan't to restabilize again.
Like they the tiny bubbles are in a stage between hydroxyl and water and maybe all they need is that little push of completion.

Just a tiny bit more to go, or they are in a state of too many electrons, mass stabilization process caught up in the inbetween.
At the point of split or crack the oxygen has realeased the h2 and the electrons are being pretty fussy trying to restabilize and maybe the tiny bubble stuff is a make up of various oxygen hydrogen stages. Which it is.
Has to be part of a natural process.

I would love to focus some energy on how to deal with those stages of process.
Maybe step 2 might be removal of electrons as suggested by Meyer.

Don't know until its tried.