Author Topic: Heat exchanger HHO  (Read 13519 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Login to see usernames

  • Administrator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4464
    • water structure and science
Heat exchanger HHO
« on: November 21, 2009, 23:15:42 pm »
Why i think, we need to pre-heat HHO before using it in engines.

Here is a document from BMW. Its in German..... ;)
It has to do with the fact that hydrogen has fine cooling property's and thats not what we want. So they also heat up the gas, before it goes in their engines.

Steve

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 980
Re: Heat exchanger HHO
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2009, 00:12:47 am »
Hydrogen is supposed to expand a lot with a slight temperature increase, it is used as an expansion fluid in some sterling engines for this reason.

Online Login to see usernames

  • Administrator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4464
    • water structure and science
Re: Heat exchanger HHO
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2009, 10:31:02 am »
Hydrogen is supposed to expand a lot with a slight temperature increase, it is used as an expansion fluid in some sterling engines for this reason.

Doesnt that make you think?

Steve

Offline Login to see usernames

  • 50+
  • *
  • Posts: 93
Re: Heat exchanger HHO
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2009, 13:44:43 pm »

 Steve, have you tried separating the H from the O and using it straight ??  AS you already mentioned, it's diluted before it gets into the engine ??

Online Login to see usernames

  • Administrator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4464
    • water structure and science
Re: Heat exchanger HHO
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2009, 13:51:23 pm »

 Steve, have you tried separating the H from the O and using it straight ??  AS you already mentioned, it's diluted before it gets into the engine ??

I have made a testcell which separates H from O, but thats less efficient then a normal HHO cell.
If anybody finds a way to separate H from O from the output of our drycells, then he will become a hero!

Steve

Offline Login to see usernames

  • 50+
  • *
  • Posts: 93
Re: Heat exchanger HHO
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2009, 18:16:22 pm »

 I posted how to do that, a long while back. Bubble the HHO through a liquid, and, it holds or absorbs the O.  Can't remember the liquid. Think it was an acid ???  Interested?  I will look it up ??

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 980
Re: Heat exchanger HHO
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2009, 18:20:29 pm »
Hydrogen is supposed to expand a lot with a slight temperature increase, it is used as an expansion fluid in some sterling engines for this reason.

Doesnt that make you think?

Steve

I'll think about it, Stan doesn't mention heating the fuel before using it.

If the reason for heating it is to increase it's volume or pressure, then I'd wonder if this is required.

The BMW people probably do not use exhaust gasses to modulate the burn rate, so i assume they design their engines to run on simple hydrogen, and this is why they need to heat it up to manipulate it's volume and this might have an effect on it's mixing and burning... but i would think it would make it mix with oxygen faster, and then burn faster. So they would even be redesigning their engines to run on the properties of hydrogen.

You have to realize than when Stan got all his patents to make hydrogen a reasonable fuel source he solved ALL the problems with using hydrogen as fuel, and all the other companies are NOT using his patents, so they have to bullshit their way around and still make the systems work.

Every company working towards the "Hydrogen Economy" is ignoring all of Stan's simple solutions.

They are NOT using quenching circuits

They are NOT modulating the burn rate and temperature with non combustible gasses

They are NOT producing hydrogen on demand

They ARE doing stupid things like compressing hydrogen, cooling and liquefying it in heavy tanks.

They ARE doing stupid things like making Hydrogen gas stations

All of this new hydrogen technology coming from the big companies is all over complicated, fancy, futuristic looking bullshit, and they are doing it all the hard way.

Stan says "it doesn't matter what type of hydrogen system you develop, you are going to have to go through Stan Meyer's Blue Zone to render it safer than natural gas" and guess what? They are working around Stan's Blue Zone, and it's causing them a lot of problems. (See the Switzerland Video)

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 980
Re: Heat exchanger HHO
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2009, 18:29:02 pm »
That patent says they are taking frozen liquefied hydrogen from a tank at -250 degrees C, and heating it up to +50 degrees C before sending it to the engine.

Can you imagine how much energy is wasted by cooling the hydrogen from the temperature it was created, say 30 degrees, down to -250, then heating it back up to 50 degrees, they are putting all that energy into the gas to change it's temperature by 580 degrees all because they are too proud to develop an on demand system, or to respect Stan's system.


Sorry for taking this a offtopic, I agree that sending the hydrogen into the engine at 50 degrees C may be more efficient than at 25 degrees C, and this could be a useful factor in tuning the system.

Another point is that if you mix the fuel gasses with exhaust gasses, you could eliminate the need for a heat exchanger  depending on the temperature of the exhaust gases - if the exhaust is warm, it will raise the temp of your fuel mixture, you could use this to your advantage if it is useful.

How would you normally heat your fuel? waste heat from the exhaust... so mixing it directly eliminates the heat exchanger, if you can control the temp and mixing ratio suitably.

Also hotter fuel has more energy per mass, but if it expands a lot, it may have less energy per volume, or you could heat it to raise the pressure, and then you're messing with the compression ratio, all fun things to get the engine to run the way you want it.

The best thing to do would be to design a system so you have control over all the variables you want to look at and adjust, and then run experimental trials, adjusting each parameter individually to note the results, and then tuning into the proper mixture/temperature/pressure based on those experiments.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 20:09:06 pm by Donaldwfc »