Author Topic: High Voltage Circuit (VIC)  (Read 17724 times)

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High Voltage Circuit (VIC)
« on: November 02, 2009, 19:51:36 pm »
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High Voltage Circuit VIC - Updated 18/12/2009:
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Factors to consider in my mind:

-Sharp pulses (<< rise-time) sharp pulses more EM field generated

-Pulse frequency (f1)  Resonance Frequency of the primary coil! Max. AC voltage from coil.

-Gate frequency (f2) Frequency for optimal water molecule pulling/tearing (gap size depended) HHO production? Don't know if gating modulated over pulse will work on primary coil? Require more start current when used this type of gating. Maybe we must use external gating for this?

-Duty cycle pulse (f1) (+40%-+60%) -50/+50% Optimal Electron Bouncing Effect in the choke (controlling feedback current)

-Duty cycle gate (f2) for optimal water molecule pulling/tearing (gap size depended) HHO production?

-Voltage input Amplitude (primary coil step-up transformer) (T1) (more voltage more HV more and faster HHO production larger EM fields) but develops more current in the primary coil.

-T1 step-up factor (generate HV from LV)

-T1 inductance

-T1 resistance

-Choke (L1-L2) bifilar

-L1=L2 inductance (>>10H?) higher means lower resonance frequency, higher capacitance, larger WFC resonance bandwidth, simpler to adjust (pulse/gate).

-L1=L2 resistance (11k6Ohm?) higher potentials, lower currents.

-Core type (iron, laminated) EI-core!

-WFC cell adjustable gap size (determines HV necessary to pull the water molecule apart, resistance factor in series with choke) .

-WFC pipe/plate length/height (voltage zones skin-effect).

-DIODE High Voltage Low current (20kV /10mA)
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I want to share this info...

I tested a simple made toroid coil with ferrite core. I connected this to my new PWM pulser, controlled with micro-controller. The difference I saw in compare of my 555 pulser is that this coil has now High Voltage as output. Use of the 555 pulser signal had no HV!!!

I think this has occurred: because of the extra sharp pulses (rise-time) from the PWM the core reacts different to the sharp pulses.
Sharp pulses are important. Duty cycle of pulse signal was 5% at low frequency to restrict amps. 50% and I have no HV at secondary only amps consumer. ;D

@warp
When I use this secondary coil winding and connect (positive) to diode to my +WFC and (negative) to -WFC, the voltage drops to zero on the scope, but when I short the (-WFC) lead to the (+WFC) I can see sparks, so little current at HV is flowing through the WFC cell. No bubbles are detected in the cell.
So I think I have work to do, make a bigger step-up coil, and bif-chokes at a designated resonance frequency adapted for this WFC cell. lol :-\

One thing that works is my micro-controller controlled PWM. ;D

br
Webmug
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 12:23:32 pm by webmug »

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Re: High Voltage Circuit
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2009, 20:14:14 pm »
I see resonance on your scope from your secondary, It dies, Resonance doesn't last forever.

2 Neat Tricks Exist for gaining Hv across your cell. You need 2 tools.

1. A fluresent lamp, "This is used to confirm voltage adjasent from the diode." And positive lead of cell.
2. Your fingers, Your fingers in parallel with the choke. This is used to detect shocks emited from the choke.

My choke works just above the shock region, where RF is usually emitted from the choke.

The choke restricts amps to the fuel cell, Without it, it is possible to short the secondary abusing the primary. With it, Diodes stays cold, primary winding stays healthy.

When the choke is placed in the circuit, A Lamp is Then used to check for voltage on the Positive terminal. If there is no voltage at the positive terminal it is either due to Freq, Or wrong choke core. The Lamp always detects voltage opposite from the diode, just before the choke,, Even if no choke is used. If you have no voltage there, your step up is weak, Or, check your diode type.

There is always voltage at the negative terminal, Grab a lamp to confirm this. The Trick is getting voltage to the positive terminal just after the diode, Once you gain voltage there, you now have hit a high voltage zone and the circuit is functioning properly.

See my other post about how I compare a magnetron to a choke.

Facts, When a coils connection is Broken Hv is emitted, high amp discharge. This is out ignition coils work.

When points open, the condenser absorbs the shock keeping the points from burning away, It is possible that when you broke the connection is when you seen the arc, its possible the cell wasn't aborbing the blow, Maybe because to wide of gap or series wired.

Without the Choke, you will not read Hv across the cell, voltage will drop to a charged 2 volts and about 2 volts will be read in the Milliamps. It is when the power is removed voltage starts to take over, its then when the chokes are at resonance.

The important thing to do is Probe the choke leads, it is the most important component.

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Re: High Voltage Circuit
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2009, 22:53:39 pm »
Webmug,measure those resonance ripples in the off duty cycle.That is the frequency that your system wants to resonate at.Tune into that frequency and then see what happens to your voltage.
Don

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Re: High Voltage Circuit
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2009, 23:14:28 pm »
Nice, webmug! Very nice!

Steve

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Re: High Voltage Circuit
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2009, 19:18:47 pm »
@Dynodon
Thanks for the advice, I check as soon as possible. The control software can go to 5kHz max. at this moment due to pulse precision. Lower frequency better pulse precision.  I must reprogram the PWM software. I checked the frequency in the OFF pulse on the scope.

@Warp
I'm making a new transformer step-up coil and a Biflair choke (copper). I want to see what's happening with the choke in this nice circuit. Testing how to connect the Bif to use/re-use the EM fields.
When I check for HV before or after the diode (between transformer and choke) with FL, the FL is not lit. there is no HV when a choke is connected. Connected to the choke the FL is lit.
To much things to test at this moment.

What I think:
No voltage potential is measured over the WFC di-pole, but when seen from the ground there is +HV and -HV is that correct? But when the WFC is charged the capacitive value is changed so you can measure a potential. Lets assume there is +1200 volt and due to changed value -900 volt. Now we measure 300 volts over the cell. The +/- potentials must be maintained equal in opposite value to get the voltage to take over at the stainless di-poles. This potential can go beyond 20kV till your chokes blow, see it as a valve. It charges the WFC di-poles and tears the water molecules apart.
When tearing or pulling occurs we can adjust the gating frequency or and the primary transformer voltage to speed up or slow it down, thus adjust the gas output a.k. "Thermal Explosive Energy-Yield"

I'll try to make a new step-up transformer (no toroid) 1:13 primary 22AWG / secondary 26AWG. Choke biflair 22AWG 850wnd (no toroid) .
That's what I have at this moment. I think of placing s/s rods into the coils. One I-core glue them and spray water on it to get it to rust is also better to prevent Eddy Currents=loss of energy.
These coils can go on ferrite, iron cores too. What kind of difference is made when I-core or UU-cores are used has to be tested, I think UU-core make a nice magnetic loop? What SM did was to take the Bif-choke to restrict current and that he connected them in series on a Bobbin Cavity, restrict more. The Transformer was wind under the Bif-chokes in the same EM field so called multi-layered coil on a Bobbin iron laminated core (to prevent Eddy Currents=loss of energy)

Well that's just my mind-fart guys... ::)

TO ALL:
Who made/used a choke of (430F/FR s/s) 36AWG (.006inch) 11k6Ohms 189wnd similar used by SM. Described in the WFC memo 426 and tried to replicate.
Has somebody seen the effects measured with a scope on other chokes in THE circuit? Not in theory, but the real thing.

Please post your results/findings on this nice forum and we try to replicate the "Electron Bounce Effect".
I know it was used for the water-injectors (small). I guess it's also possible to apply it on a normal SM WFC cell (big)

br,
Webmug
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 12:13:34 pm by webmug »

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Re: High Voltage Circuit
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2009, 19:24:46 pm »
do not forget stan center tapped his secondary also.

Yes, you can read high voltage across the cell when no ground is present. Google isolated ground vs ground, Not sure what it does myself but it has an effect.

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Re: High Voltage Circuit
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2009, 19:53:58 pm »
do not forget stan center tapped his secondary also.

Yes, you can read high voltage across the cell when no ground is present. Google isolated ground vs ground, Not sure what it does myself but it has an effect.

Center Tap creates opposite voltage potential +POS and Tap (secondary neutral) and -NEG from the secondary transformer windings when windings are equal, necessary for charging the di-pole through the chokes.

When HV present over WFC, then there is perhaps no equal opposite voltage potential. The transformer and or choke are not equal wound? Potential is ZERO?
Seen from Tap there is +HV and -HV?

br,
Webmug

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Re: High Voltage Circuit
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2009, 01:42:28 am »
Webmug I think you are right on track!