Author Topic: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly  (Read 148416 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2387
  • Testing
Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2009, 06:11:43 am »
Hrm. .

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Sr. member
  • ***
  • Posts: 387
Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
« Reply #57 on: October 11, 2009, 16:35:48 pm »

Stan has a special setup, it also is related to 3 phase. As pointed out you can gain 7 psi in one min, in a 1 liter cavity using 6 diodes, But 3 diodes falls along the lines of impossible, "Unless you hit a wild resonance," I hit it but the gas never came.

I'd have investigated this.
You should had  to vary the voltage on the primary, Meyer did this by tuning the variac - when he adjusted it, bubbles started to appear. Voltage level _does_ play a role.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 980
Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
« Reply #58 on: October 11, 2009, 17:30:15 pm »
Dankie, good for you, but you are completely off topic.

Warp, I understand what you are showing, but I don't see how it is used in Stan's work, or how it is special. In fact that is not how you would properly use the term "out of phase" in physics or electronics, If you'll let me explain...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/Phase_shift.png)

In this picture you see TWO waves, and they are "out of phase" with "each other", by about 45 degrees.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/sine180.gif)

In this picture you see TWO waves, and they are "out of phase" with "each other" by 180 degrees.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/T048339A.gif)

In this picture you see two waves traveling on the SAME wire in opposite directions, and it shows when they meet, how  the amplitude changes, and the amplitude changes with perfect simple addition and subtraction of the two waves at the points that they meet.

If you have two waves of equal amplitude, and they are 180 degrees out of phase, then they will combine to cancel out, just like you see on the left of this picture, a straight flat line.

And this has nothing to do with Stan. If you are wondering how the alternator uses this, then you have to realize that each phase is on a SEPARATE wire, until you rectify them, then join them together!

When they show a 3 phase wave form like yours, that means they are all separate, if they were actually on the same wire, then you would see addition and subtraction like the above picture describes, and the wave form would be useless. And you can try it too, connect all your wires together before the diodes and see what happens.

Also, 3 phase is 3 wires 120 degrees out of phase with each other, not 125, 120+120+120=360.

Now we could get into the Crossover Voltage Burst Sync-Pulse

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/Picture5-1.png)

Take a look at this and you'll see the 3 phase positive and the 3 phase negative are on different wires, shown after the diodes (the diodes for the negative side are on the center tap, because of the bemf they are not needed in the same location after the chokes)

You see where he "combines" the positive and negative wave form at the cell, he actually has the water bath grounded, which means that one plate creates a positive voltage with respect to the grounded water, and the other plate creates a negative voltage with respect to the water, but the voltage waves don't cancel with the adding/subtracting like above because this is not on a WIRE, it's just an electric field crossing the water gap, so instead of having +500 volts on one side and -500 volts on the other, and them adding up to 0 volts, you actually have a difference of 1000 volts between the plates. Imagine dropping a rock from a tower, into a hole just as far. Your rock will not fall zero, it'll fall the full distance.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 980
Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2009, 17:50:03 pm »
Alan, you are right, but I want to point out a related fact.

V=RI

voltage = resistance * current

you adjust the voltage on your variac, and voltage goes up

but resistance in the rotor is constant, because it's the same amount of wire all the time

so if you double voltage, you double current
if you quadruple voltage, you quadruple current going into the alternator.

When you increase voltage on the variac, yes you are increasing voltage, but you are also increasing current just as much, so now we have to consider, what is actually getting the job done? is it the increase in voltage that is doing the work, or is it in increase in current that is doing the work?

Then you also have to realize that when you double the voltage, you double the current, which means you double the magnetic field of the alternator, which means your drive motor has to draw more amps to keep turning the load, so when you increase your voltage you are actually drawing more energy into the whole thing than just from the voltage itself.

You need to realize that increasing voltage on the variac does not work the same way as a transformer, a transformer uses a turns ratio which controls voltage in vs voltage out, where as the alternator uses magnetic field strength caused by current flow in the rotor, and rotation speed from drive motor to control the output from the alternator.

That being said, this is a normal alternator set up, and what we really want to do is MAKE SURE that it is the voltage doing the work, and not the current, so we need the magical Rotary VIC which will give us the desired output from the alternator.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2387
  • Testing
Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
« Reply #60 on: October 11, 2009, 19:38:47 pm »
I was under the impression you knew nothing about phases, When i stated 125 degree's at the bottom, i was half way asleep. I drew that up for you "Should have checked over it this morning before posting." You can see by looking at the top i knew it was 120, after a while of drawing i started to get tired, and my boy was raising hell at me in me being mean, and my wife wanting to go, I guess i slipped.

I am no longer under the impression that your lost on phases, And yes, you stack the coils 120 degree's apart as you said.

You sure learn quick.

Some EV's also generate 3 phase wave form, Why remove the engine when its so powerfull.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2387
  • Testing
Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
« Reply #61 on: October 11, 2009, 19:48:07 pm »
Alan, you are right, but I want to point out a related fact.

V=RI

voltage = resistance * current

you adjust the voltage on your variac, and voltage goes up

but resistance in the rotor is constant, because it's the same amount of wire all the time

so if you double voltage, you double current
if you quadruple voltage, you quadruple current going into the alternator.

When you increase voltage on the variac, yes you are increasing voltage, but you are also increasing current just as much, so now we have to consider, what is actually getting the job done? is it the increase in voltage that is doing the work, or is it in increase in current that is doing the work?

Then you also have to realize that when you double the voltage, you double the current, which means you double the magnetic field of the alternator, which means your drive motor has to draw more amps to keep turning the load, so when you increase your voltage you are actually drawing more energy into the whole thing than just from the voltage itself.

You need to realize that increasing voltage on the variac does not work the same way as a transformer, a transformer uses a turns ratio which controls voltage in vs voltage out, where as the alternator uses magnetic field strength caused by current flow in the rotor, and rotation speed from drive motor to control the output from the alternator.

That being said, this is a normal alternator set up, and what we really want to do is MAKE SURE that it is the voltage doing the work, and not the current, so we need the magical Rotary VIC which will give us the desired output from the alternator.

Also, you said when voltage goes up so does current.. Thats right, But, This is why you use a series cell, I stated a while back, if you know the voltage you can calculate the needed number of plates. I run about 144 across 30 plates, And you can do 30 more, Then you can read 288 volts across the 30 plates when each set of 30 has 144.

(you add plates to keep the current down, and voltage up.)

However, 120 was my only source of voltage, if i had 220, or 220 3 phase, I would have bought more plates and i would have produced more than 5 liters.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 980
Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
« Reply #62 on: October 11, 2009, 20:47:54 pm »
Yea sorry, I understand phases, but I don't understand how Stan uses them "180 degrees out of phase" in the WFC tech, and I don't think he does, I think that was a misunderstanding from his other comment. He does say the chokes restrict current flow by 90 degrees, I don't know much about that, but I think it is important, and I really want to learn what this means.

It is unlikely that i'll build a series cell, I would only build a plate cell if I wanted to build a variable spacing plate cell, but that would be for demo because I know Stan's variable spacing plate cell produced a lot less gas then the tubular array. The reason why stan built that was to prove that the cell is a capacitor, and varying the spacing varies the capacitance, which means the electric field is weaker, (electric field is measured in Volts per meter, so he has the same voltage, but changes the distance), and thus varies the production, because in an electrolysis cell, the plate spacing doesn't matter much at all.

If I build anything other than a tube cell, it'll be a concentric sphere cell, because I have never seen any one play with these and stan does have a fair bit of documentation and video-time on them.

Warp, you should get your cell out again and try some of this stuff! Build a Rotary VIC :P

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2387
  • Testing
Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
« Reply #63 on: October 11, 2009, 21:44:57 pm »
That would be fun, But it will have to wait until after december, Or longer. Who knows.

If i do this again, ("I will do it right,") Meaning, A battery pack to be installed on a Car, Normally this pack runs a 3 phase inverter that Runs a 3 phase Motor mounted Directly to the transmission. But, when you include a water fuel cell you do away with the 3 phase motor and put a fuel cell in its place, The left over horse power from the engine would help keep the battery back charged, you could also add Solar panels.

Ev's have their downfalls, So will the wfc, It is possible the wfc could be better BUT the EV's Frown on ICE.

A fuel cell can run a car using this methode, No doubt.