Author Topic: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly  (Read 148390 times)

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Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
« Reply #424 on: August 16, 2013, 20:24:38 pm »
Now I'm interested in my lead in and out wire spacing if that actually makes a difference in voltage?
That instructable might be incorrect about the lead out wires.
If you read the instruct-able he states that the lead out wires should be separated by some slots and this changed his output voltage.
I have a hard time believing it had any effect at all.
Can anyone verify this information?
This bothers me, for looking for a wind that can produce more voltage.
The statement in the instruct-able may be correct in that it can produce more voltage and it could change things in the way we wind.
I have an old TIGER alternator/generator made with permanent magnets, when spun with 3600 rpm it has 120v output 60hz these were made about the size of a small alternator.
I'll try to take it apart without damage, however it will be very different due to the fact it is 2 poles.
But it should make no difference 2 poles or 6 poles we should be able to figure out how to make the higher voltage output with multiple phases.

I'm sorry I have modified this post several times.
 
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 18:19:22 pm by komtek »

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Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
« Reply #425 on: August 17, 2013, 19:45:21 pm »
As far I understand and correct me if I'm wrong.
Number of wire turns suggests the potential of voltage, with a given field of magnetic flux.
Strength of rotors magnetic flux has to saturate the stator for full voltage potential.
Speed of rotor determines frequency.
Lets take for example this Ford alternator at 36 slot with 6 pole rotor:
Wire lead starts and leaves within one slot of each other or 12 slots of each other may not matter to the signal at all, as the sine wave seen should be the same either way.
I can't see how the voltage would change as the number of turns of wire should be the potential of voltage available with the strength of the fields flux.
The signal or sine wave will look the same, but if rotor is pulsed nice and slow lets say at 8HZ a strong magnetic frequency according to Schuman (I think). What I have seen at slow pulses the sine wave signal will step up at a nice angle.
We can adjust rotor/field strength and flux appearance by pulsing the DC field to it.

This Tiny Tiger brand generator/alternator has 120vac output and also has a DC output, you can see the leads and diodes.
It appears to be using #22 or #23 wire and can't tell you how many turns. The wiring method seen is one of the conventional types.
Since the alternator has just enough power for a standard hand drill it is most likely only 1 wire in hand, I forgot to look closely at the lead splice.
Its possible that it can be 2 in hand.
There are many turns per slot, a good guess is all you can do unless I cut the wire out.
Bottom line is it has many turns per slot, to produce its rated voltage output at 60hz frequency. 

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Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
« Reply #426 on: August 17, 2013, 20:05:41 pm »
As far I understand and correct me if I'm wrong.
Number of wire turns suggests the potential of voltage, with a given field of magnetic flux.
Strength of rotors magnetic flux has to saturate the stator for full voltage potential.
Speed of rotor determines frequency.
Lets take for example this Ford alternator at 36 slot with 6 pole rotor:
Wire lead starts and leaves within one slot of each other or 12 slots of each other may not matter to the signal at all, as the sine wave seen should be the same either way.
I can't see how the voltage would change as the number of turns of wire should be the potential of voltage available with the strength of the fields flux.
The signal or sine wave will look the same, but if rotor is pulsed nice and slow lets say at 8HZ a strong magnetic frequency according to Schuman (I think). What I have seen at slow pulses the sine wave signal will step up at a nice angle.
We can adjust rotor/field strength and flux appearance by pulsing the DC field to it.

This Tiny Tiger brand generator/alternator has 120vac output and also has a DC output, you can see the leads and diodes.
It appears to be using #22 or #23 wire and can't tell you how many turns. The wiring method seen is one of the conventional types.
Since the alternator has just enough power for a standard hand drill it is most likely only 1 wire in hand, I forgot to look closely at the lead splice.
Its possible that it can be 2 in hand.
There are many turns per slot, a good guess is all you can do unless I cut the wire out.
Bottom line is it has many turns per slot, to produce its rated voltage output at 60hz frequency.

At 8 hz, you seen a stepup? Meaning added voltage?


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Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
« Reply #427 on: August 17, 2013, 21:24:47 pm »
At 8hz gated pulse train several years ago I was able to get a step charge signal. Pulse train was higher frequency and was gated at this low frequency.
If you ever read about Schumans Resonance, there are frequencys that will produce the strongest magnetic field or flux. (These are cosmic frequencys we are always under). I mentioned this many years back.
Also playing with this, I got what I call a diathermy pulse.
The current supplied to my cells could be adjusted to rise from 0 current to 30amps on and off / up and down like diathermy, loading and unloading and this appeared like it gave off as much gas as if I were to leave or rise the frequency on the cell.  However I never adjusted to the full potential of my cell current. This was most likely done with a standard style alternator winding.
My experiments were basically uncompleted due to the available equipment at the time they were done.

Step up meaning step charge, can't remember the voltage as I did not take notes but it was maybe 30 to 40 volts only, its been a while. This voltage was done with an alternator that had 35 turns per coil 70 turns per slot #23. I was complaining to myself the voltage was low. I was expecting higher voltages. Although I'm only using 12v pulsed applied to rotor.
Much of my early experiments were tri tube sets each tube supplied with a separate phase.

EDIT ADD:
Found some more information about alternator voltage.
Sometimes a person has PDF's and doesn't necessarily read the whole thing.
In this PDF page 5 states, spinning faster at a higher RPM will raise the voltage.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 16:39:13 pm by komtek »

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Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
« Reply #428 on: August 18, 2013, 17:45:36 pm »
A little study does shed a little light.

Now I can concentrate on size of wire for the alternator stator, enough current for a particular cell size.
Then wind some chokes and amp inhibiting coil per Meyer third wire diagram.
On this Meyer diagram it could be interpreted in many ways.
What I see is:
On stator dual bifilars 616a-616b, in those Meyer alternator pics we all see tri-filar maybe #18 wire wraps.
Makes me wonder if the third wire with the bifilar is wrapped on the stator, and called 619 induction core and 617 amp inhibiting coil.
Notice that the resonant charging chokes 56/62 are square box's showing no coil and my thinking would be air chokes and not on any core.
If calculated correctly in an earlier post I put something like 120 tight turns #18 on 1" form and this equals 11.6kohms impedance at some frequency (maybe 5k this information needs to be checked again).
#18 200c is good for pretty high current, then derated with temperature, its very hard to find the proper sheet.
Based on what I read at 30c or 86f #18 in 90c jacket can do 14 amperes, this same wire at 80c or 176f can do 41% of 14 amperes.
200c coating will go a little higher in current lets say a couple amps so maybe 16 amperes.
80c is pretty hot and I have gotten to 65c before which would be 58% so just under 10 amperes per wire would be 20 or so amperes per 2 wire bifilar.
This would or could equate to up to 60 amperes max available output of the stator.
Now add in chokes at single wire #18, max out with no temperature rise could be as high as 15 amperes maybe derate to 66% 10 amperes per phase should be up to 30 amperes easily to cell available.
Now if Meyers circuit would inhibit amps and the rotor was driven easily to 5-7k rpms and we got high voltage out over 100v, I'd be interested to see how much gas can be released with this method.

I'm thinking using #18 wire. 
Maybe that induction core is not part of the stator. It might have to be a separate core 619 and coil 617. This is something still to think about what will happen here in this coil.
Also a decision if charging chokes 56/62 should be on stator or separate?
It also may be possible these chokes 62 and 56 are why the secondary is dual bifilar.

It may just be a center tapped secondary with 2 chokes, total of 4 wires in hand.

If we choose to revue Figure 8-10 along with figure 8-11, then there is dual bifilar coils on the alternator and the chokes are outer coils. On 8-11 he mentions/points out (85) on the 0 connection which is used to propagate either static or dynamic electrical charging effect.
In this case there there is 4 wires in hand and tied as center tapped dual bifilars.
6 outer chokes, and an amp inhibiting coil.
The 0V (85)(621) is what has my attention.
 
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 03:12:31 am by komtek »

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Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
« Reply #429 on: August 20, 2013, 06:51:04 am »
MEN

The magnetic field induces a EMF because of the movement since the magnetic fields alternates.... 

The higher is the magnetic field the higher will be the voltage.

The higher the speed of the rotor the higher is going to be the voltage

But higher will be also the impedance!

Impedance is related to the frequency induced and the inductance of the stationary coils.

Thats why meyer calls an alternator a current limited device. As is any other type of electrodynamic (exclluding MHD and homopolar generators)

If You raise the speed you raise the impedance so current is limited to the impedance of the circuit, does not matter the load even if its a short circuit.   

If you apply to the alternator rotor AC square wave you can raise its impedance, limiting the current it can provide, at least is predictable  from theory and previous experience.

Thats because the alternator start to act as a transformer and as a generator at the same time.

The thing is, the rotor has very high inductance, maybe up to 20mh or higher so if you apply 5khz like stan says you could not have 2 amps flowing

since the impedance would be up to 0.020*3.14*2*5000=  628ohms  if you apply 5v it would end up with 8ma flowing and this is way low magnetic field to induce anything at the stationary coils.

My alternator has more than 4Ohms rotor coil so if i wanted 2 amps flowing i should apply 8v dc

Theres only twp ways to apply 8v having a 20mh coil with 4 ohms at 5khz and have 2 amps flowing and they are

One:

Add a capacitor in series ! 50nf capacitor and pulse it at resonance with ac

Of course when two amps flow you must get 1256volts across the capacitor and coil...


or

Make a coil with little ohmic resistance and replace the rotor coil having 4ohms of resistance by one having 127uH or 4 ohms reactance

which you think is the righter way? or easier?


To apply such high frequency to the rotor is easy, it could be done using an H bridge a half bridge or still a series 1:1 transformer or a step up in parallel with the tank formed...

The safest mode would be a series transformer or stepup in parallel fed by a H bridge at resonant frequency...

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Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
« Reply #430 on: August 20, 2013, 16:25:57 pm »
If need to limit current,it must be primary side.primary side need ac resonant to make highest amps because series lc circuit is limit current circuit(you never rise highest amps if no resonant occur).

Secondary side is not complex,just rectify and filter to DC.

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Re: Rotary Pulse Voltage Frequency Generator Assembly
« Reply #431 on: August 21, 2013, 05:47:20 am »
Actually at resonance the Z tends to R if considered in series and if in parallel the Z tends to infinity Actually its proportional to the dissipation.

For example if you want a 500ohms reactance tank to have 2 amps flowing you must apply 1 kv if in parallel. if its in series you must apply the correct voltage to the resistance value....

In the case of parallel is easier since the only thing which changes is amp being consumed at the high voltage input.

So lets say you get a 20ohms resistance and you apply 1000v whats going to be the amp consume?

Simple 2 amps * 500ohms = 1000V so

2 amps * 2amps * 20 ohms = 80 watts so if you apply 1000volts it will consume 80ma!!!!  so the impedance in parallel is 1000v/0.08A= 12.5kohms

To prove its correct lets analyze the series case

80 watts = 2 amps * 40volts

and 2 amps = 40volts / 20 ohms

So is simple to find the parallel equivalent impedance by using the watts short cut

Lets make a better figure

lets say we get a 1000ohms reactance and 2 ohms resistance this time

we want to know the current consume if we apply 10000volts

10000volts = 10 Amps * 1000XL

but 10A*10A*2 OHMS = 200WATTS

SO 200w/10000v=20mA  and so 10000/0.02= 500kohm


Basically resonant amps Ir=V/XL  and watts  W=Ir*Ir*R

 Thereto amps consume from high voltage source will be  Iin=V/Zp where parallel impedance Zp= V/(W/V)


This means that if you apply 20mA per pulse (just to think about this is not exactly correct) it would  take at least more than 500pulses to achieve 10 amps flowing in the tank....

Notice i didn't taked about frequency this time ... but reactance indeed has the frequency build in the number..

If you decide a frequency and at least one of the components the other can be found to make the circuit as described or predicted within this formulas...

« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 06:08:36 am by sebosfato »