Author Topic: Multipactor effect and "Resonant Cavity"  (Read 12588 times)

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Multipactor effect and "Resonant Cavity"
« on: September 24, 2009, 09:52:12 am »
While studying possible "passive" oscillators, I stumbled upon the Multipactor effect...more precisely the "Farnsworth Multipactor".
It then dawned on me the significance of "matching the electrode gap (in respect to the time it takes a water molecule to traverse it) to the frequency of the physical pulse applied to the electrodes" as stated by Stanl Meyer

Let me first describe the "Multipactor" effect...
It was noticed by the "Father of Television" P. Farnsworth, that at certain modes of operation there was a faint blueish glow in a region between the cathode filament and the anode plate of simple diode tube rectifiers . This observation led to the discovery of the "Multipactor" effect, which is very similar to the "Photoelectric effect" in nature. This being that high velocity electrons will slam back into the cathode under very controlled conditions, and release 2-8 more electrons per impact.

Quote
Two-surface multipactor on metals
This is a multipactor that occurs in the gap between metallic electrodes. Often, an RF electric field is normal to the surface. A resonance between electron flight time and rf field cycle is a mechanism for multipactor development.

The existence of multipactor is dependent on the following three conditions being met: The average number of electrons released is greater than or equal to one per incident electron (this is dependent on the secondary electron yield of the surface) and the time taken by the electron to travel from the surface from which it was released to the surface it impacts with is an integer multiple of one half of the RF period and the average secondary electron yield is greater than or equal to one.

Single-surface multipactor on dielectrics

This is a multipactor that occurs on a dielectric surface. Often, an RF electric field is parallel to the surface. The positive charge accumulated on the dielectric surface returns electrons back to the surface. A single surface multipactor event is also possible on a metallic surface in the presence of a crossed static magnetic field.


With that being said let me show you now why I believe this effect is paralleled in Meyer's process

As per European patent EP0103656A2
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w152/Jdub6d9/Untitled-2-1.jpg)
The statement "As understood in resonant cavities of an electron nature..." is a direct reference to "Multipactor" action...if that isn't enough this blatantly spells it out for us.
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w152/Jdub6d9/Untitled-3.jpg)
This explains the "Physical" aspect Meyer was talking about...it explains why he states the gap distance is critical...and it explains this image
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w152/Jdub6d9/Untitled-4.jpg)
And all other waveguide pictures in Stan's patents...it is showing the back and fourth nature of electrons/ions in a precisely timed resonant pulse/cavity interaction
To figure this out we need to figure out how fast the water molecule/water ions (Hydrogen and Oxygen BEFORE neutralizing) move towards the electrodes (I suspect this variable depending on the electrode potential). Then we must figure out how to supliment extra energy into the system (as the atomic collisions lose some energy during their collisions). I suspect the VIC being wound around the cell and the extra photon energy does exactly this in the Meyer system (that's why the LED array is pulsed at the same resonant frequency).

Anyway, I strongly encourage all readers to research the Multipactor effect and the Farnsworth Multipactor called the "Fusor" to come to a conclusion of their own.

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Re: Multipactor effect and "Resonant Cavity"
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2009, 10:01:31 am »
One more thought............

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w152/Jdub6d9/Missinglink.jpg)

The transformer puts out an AC output...being only one single diode is being used in conjunction with a choke coil means that the pulse would create a magnetic field in the coil as it conducts to ground. As the pulse shuts down the diode shuts down too...as the sustaining electron flow shuts off the field in the inductor(s) collapses and reverses (sending reverse voltage to electrodes)...this would (if properly timed) repel the incoming ions back to their source.

I think I have really stumbled onto it this time...please tell me what you all think

P.S. I do not claim any one effect is responsible for Meyer's OU claims...instead it is a cumulative effect...we must keep an open mind and realize that Meyer brought many specialized fields together in one application (not at once...his efforts evolved into a pinnacle of perfection, on paper or otherwise)

As Leonardo Da Vinci put it....
"IF YOU GET IT RIGHT ON PAPER, IT WILL WORK."

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Re: Multipactor effect and "Resonant Cavity"
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2009, 10:46:29 am »
One more thought............

(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w152/Jdub6d9/Missinglink.jpg)

The transformer puts out an AC output...being only one single diode is being used in conjunction with a choke coil means that the pulse would create a magnetic field in the coil as it conducts to ground. As the pulse shuts down the diode shuts down too...as the sustaining electron flow shuts off the field in the inductor(s) collapses and reverses (sending reverse voltage to electrodes)...this would (if properly timed) repel the incoming ions back to their source.

I think I have really stumbled onto it this time...please tell me what you all think

P.S. I do not claim any one effect is responsible for Meyer's OU claims...instead it is a cumulative effect...we must keep an open mind and realize that Meyer brought many specialized fields together in one application (not at once...his efforts evolved into a pinnacle of perfection, on paper or otherwise)

As Leonardo Da Vinci put it....
"IF YOU GET IT RIGHT ON PAPER, IT WILL WORK."

You talk about changing polarity on the wfc? Thats not gonna work, i think. Stan talks about always keeping the same polarity. My tests say the same.
But we dont know it all for sure, so, give it a try, i would say.

The question on how quick electrons travel, well, look at  yr wfc when you start it up.
Most cells take like 3 seconds before anything happen.


Steve











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Re: Multipactor effect and "Resonant Cavity"
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2009, 10:51:28 am »
I'm not saying that we change the polarity...anytime you turn off power to an inductor the collapsing field produces a reversed voltage.
Our pulses are constant polarity...but every time we shut the pulse off, the polarity will reverse across ALL inductors. Not my opinion...BEMF fact.
A diode can't stop it from happening...it can only influence where this reverse back rush goes (in this case back through the tube set)

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Re: Multipactor effect and "Resonant Cavity"
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2009, 13:10:11 pm »
Very interesting Radiant_1

This ties in with the thoughts in this thread:
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1166.0.html

Page saved to HDD and looking into the Multipactor effect now.
Thx

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Re: Multipactor effect and "Resonant Cavity"
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2009, 19:18:37 pm »
@Logic
Yeah I was thinking about that when it clicked for me...here is a page about Farnsworth's Multipactor tubes

http://www.borderlands.com/archives/arch/multipact.htm

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Re: Multipactor effect and "Resonant Cavity"
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2009, 20:48:55 pm »
Gauss, if you want to debate piezo....you can PM me. I will try and respond to you in a timely manner. This thread however, has nothing to do with piezo (it may however, be a good way to add extra energy to the molecules??)...anyway, I am going to remove the piezo stuff. Please refrain from digressing from the point of this thread ;)

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Re: Multipactor effect and "Resonant Cavity"
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2009, 08:19:24 am »
@Logic
Yeah I was thinking about that when it clicked for me...here is a page about Farnsworth's Multipactor tubes...

Hope it was my posts that 'clicked' it for you! LOL!  :)

Do you think perhaps Steves Pulsed Signal may be a small bit of this effect?
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1182.0.html

There is simulation software out there for predicting this effect!
http://arantxa.ii.uam.es/~alfonsec/docs/confint/mc139871.pdf

It would seem that CEST is actually the software we want:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6X3C-4T72WXH-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1023691932&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=c3315adf670791964cf289315b0ed9d3

I think the best chance of getting our grubby mits on this software is through this guy:
http://arantxa.ii.uam.es/~jlara/investigacion/
http://arantxa.ii.uam.es/~jlara/