Author Topic: Pulsed electrolysis  (Read 4954 times)

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Pulsed electrolysis
« on: July 15, 2009, 15:43:25 pm »
Hi CarbedNotch,
 
Following on our conversation on waveforms, i have this patent for you.
It claims that a sertain pulseform is more efficient.
I did a re calc on the figures and i came on a 25% duty on a 5khz puls.
 
Hope this helps
 
Steve

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Re: Pulsed electrolysis
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2010, 14:03:03 pm »
The theory on pulsed electrolysis:

This, you all can test.
Take a waterfuelcell and hook it up to a pulsing circuit (even Dankie's circuit would work... ;) )
The whole idea is that you get more amps into the wfc compared towards strait DC.
So how is that gonna happen?

Set your circuit on like 160Hz. duty of 40 or 50%
Put an ampmeter in serie with your wfc.
Now, measure the amp pulses. If you look carefull, you will notice that you see high amp pulses (example 10 amps by 10V)
If you compare that with strait DC on 10V, you will see a lower amperage, like 6 amps.

That is the theory i could find on this, sofar. I do see this effect and it is explanable.


regards
Steve














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Re: Pulsed electrolysis
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2010, 14:47:16 pm »
The theory on pulsed electrolysis:

This, you all can test.
Take a waterfuelcell and hook it up to a pulsing circuit (even Dankie's circuit would work... ;) )
The whole idea is that you get more amps into the wfc compared towards strait DC.
So how is that gonna happen?

Set your circuit on like 160Hz. duty of 40 or 50%
Put an ampmeter in serie with your wfc.
Now, measure the amp pulses. If you look carefull, you will notice that you see high amp pulses (example 10 amps by 10V)
If you compare that with strait DC on 10V, you will see a lower amperage, like 6 amps.

That is the theory i could find on this, sofar. I do see this effect and it is explanable.


regards
Steve

I dont know how you can see that surge because you ampmeter will never show those High amp spikes , not an analog meter nor a digital . I have tested myself a pulsing 50/50  12 volts 10 k ohm short lead resistor and it shows me .006 amps .

Ofc my circuit would work , it is the best  manual pulser ever made :) , but it is expensive if you want it from me .
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 16:18:28 pm by Dankie »

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Re: Pulsed electrolysis
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2010, 15:13:15 pm »
The theory on pulsed electrolysis:

This, you all can test.
Take a waterfuelcell and hook it up to a pulsing circuit (even Dankie's circuit would work... ;) )
The whole idea is that you get more amps into the wfc compared towards strait DC.
So how is that gonna happen?

Set your circuit on like 160Hz. duty of 40 or 50%
Put an ampmeter in serie with your wfc.
Now, measure the amp pulses. If you look carefull, you will notice that you see high amp pulses (example 10 amps by 10V)
If you compare that with strait DC on 10V, you will see a lower amperage, like 6 amps.

That is the theory i could find on this, sofar. I do see this effect and it is explanable.


regards
Steve
But if you have 50% dutycycle that's as effective as 5 Amps DC. 10Amps * 0,5 = 5A effective

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Re: Pulsed electrolysis
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2010, 17:10:38 pm »
steve, all that separates electrolysis and stans method for the most part is the bifilar chokes.. they are what restrics amps and thats what avoids standard electrolysis.. the chokes magneticly couple on the core.. the video someone posted of the copper coated ball with the 4 copper strips simpley proves this as fact.. u watch the copper ball have electrons stripped when its on a positive strip then it repels and moves toward the negative , gains electrons the repels back to a positive field... if you were to take that same ball and insulate it after electrons has been positively charged what would happen in that same bowl??? the copper ball not being able to change in charge will repel from the positive stips and it would only cling to the negatives (like a magnet)... the bifilar wires take on the same effect.. they are inulated being driven by a emf force in a mutual space to eachother they change and charge in opposite polarity.. this means that as voltage climbs they become more and more attracted to each other on the core... this is also why the resistance of water has a role in the circuit... since durring pulsing (the force of emf) you are allowing the voltage to show its presence in the water and if your pulse width exceeds a certain point it will be forcing  current... when chokes are charged and pulsing quits you have a leaky cap effect i think and you will have a discharge of the choke dependent apon the resistance of water and the stainless steel. stan state in one of his videos that production continues for 94 seconds during off time.. this is because the choke have been charged up. the chokes appear like a batter accross water but with way higher voltage and a different type of resistance to current flow compared to a battery i think due to the magnetic coupling.

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Re: Pulsed electrolysis
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2010, 23:54:45 pm »
The theory on pulsed electrolysis:

This, you all can test.
Take a waterfuelcell and hook it up to a pulsing circuit (even Dankie's circuit would work... ;) )
The whole idea is that you get more amps into the wfc compared towards strait DC.
So how is that gonna happen?

Set your circuit on like 160Hz. duty of 40 or 50%
Put an ampmeter in serie with your wfc.
Now, measure the amp pulses. If you look carefull, you will notice that you see high amp pulses (example 10 amps by 10V)
If you compare that with strait DC on 10V, you will see a lower amperage, like 6 amps.

That is the theory i could find on this, sofar. I do see this effect and it is explanable.


regards
Steve
But if you have 50% dutycycle that's as effective as 5 Amps DC. 10Amps * 0,5 = 5A effective

Yes, for sure, because you use half of the time the power.
But....take 2 wfc's and pulse them both. First the first and then the seconds.
At the end you will have 1 wfc always on, with higher amps in, then the single wfc setup with strait dc, you understand?

Dankie, if you use a low frequency, like 10 till 100hz you will be able to read the amps of your meter. Any lab powersupply can show you that or multimeter.

The advantage of a pulsed setup is that you will have less heat and a better quality HHO...
The negative side is that you need twice the electrodes and twice the electronics to have the same or better gas output...


Steve





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Re: Pulsed electrolysis
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2010, 13:52:40 pm »
Did Stan achieve anything with this pulsed thing I wonder . Probably because he knew how those worked when he worked as a radar guy , they need short pulses .

Its a pretty troublesome wave to cope with but Stan probably knew how . I dont however and dropping this VIC bifilar .

Stupid concept when you look at it , it has no rhythm besides when its on resonance , wich it isnt . Half looks like a smarter approach imo , a pulse transformer will show the input shape usually so makes no difference .

If you read Kinesis's post , you realise that the VIC actually worked , those *  fools ... JohnBostick and Kinesis arguing with me .


A pulse transformer is a transformer that is optimised for transmitting rectangular electrical pulses (that is, pulses with fast rise and fall times and a relatively constant amplitude). Small versions called signal types are used in digital logic and telecommunications circuits, often for matching logic drivers to transmission lines. Medium-sized power versions are used in power-control circuits such as camera flash controllers. Larger power versions are used in the electrical power distribution industry to interface low-voltage control circuitry to the high-voltage gates of power semiconductors. Special high voltage pulse transformers are also used to generate high power pulses for radar, particle accelerators, or other high energy pulsed power applications.

To minimise distortion of the pulse shape, a pulse transformer needs to have low values of leakage inductance and distributed capacitance, and a high open-circuit inductance. In power-type pulse transformers, a low coupling capacitance (between the primary and secondary) is important to protect the circuitry on the primary side from high-powered transients created by the load. For the same reason, high insulation resistance and high breakdown voltage are required. A good transient response is necessary to maintain the rectangular pulse shape at the secondary, because a pulse with slow edges would create switching losses in the power semiconductors.

The product of the peak pulse voltage and the duration of the pulse (or more accurately, the voltage-time integral) is often used to characterise pulse transformers. Generally speaking, the larger this product, the larger and more expensive the transformer.

Pulse transformers by definition have a duty cycle of less than 0.5, whatever energy stored in the coil during the pulse must be "dumped" out before the pulse is fired again.


You can now see why the  square wave and Duty shoulld be adjusted . Square wave for rise time and adjustable duty .

http://www.butlerwinding.com/store.asp?pid=28355

Quote:

The design of “signal” type of pulse transformer focuses on the delivery of a signal at the output. The transformer delivers a “pulse-like” signal or a series of pulses. The turns ratio of the pulse transformer can be used to adjust signal amplitude and provide impedance matching between the source and load
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 14:50:29 pm by Dankie »

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Re: Pulsed electrolysis
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2010, 15:45:36 pm »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_matching

Looking @ this now , I wonder how hard it must be have impedance match a square wave signal and being able to have a good frequency range that happens to be in a the correct bandwidth of the cell's resonance . I can see why stainless would be nice to use and why Kinesis couldnt make it , I also would have failed probably .

This is basicly some very in depth and specialised electrical engineering , most of the electronics here Stan would have an understanding . I mean just look at this stuff , this is not even close to basic electronics .

http://www.radartutorial.eu/08.transmitters/tx06.en.html