Author Topic: (Bemf) aka back emf or Counter emf (CEMF)  (Read 7612 times)

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Re: (Bemf) aka back emf or Counter emf (CEMF)
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2009, 11:16:22 am »
@HandyAndy
I like the video...

@ALL
Let me explain something I noticed when working with my ungrounded HV neon sign transformer. I noticed that directly shorting the leads with nothing attached produced a wispy purple arc that broke out in very fines stream(s)...arcing these streams to your skin would only hurt you if you allowed the stream to stay in one spot too long (it creates tiny burns)
However, when I attached my old-school .005uf silver-mica capacitor it was a different story all together. With only a slight increase in amperage through the primary the gap creates a very loud cracking and the shock will put you down (trust me  :D )...the name capacitor gives little info about it...but, back in Tesla's day they were called "condensers". That gives you more of idea of what happens. When you allow the two charges to interact through the dielectric without conducting they create an electro-magnetic attraction force that creates essentially a negative pressure which sucks in more charge/second. You should ask yourself how/why is the energy so much more powerful by adding this surface area in close proximity, yet not allowing them to conduct. That is a multiple part answer.

There is a little bit more charge/second because the magnetic energy sink is physically larger, because the capacitor and secondary is akin to a vacuum due to the opposite plates exerting an attraction force on one another, so the primary pulls some more amperage

The charge is moving faster upon discharge because the charge density is higher (thin HV secondaries can't carry much amperage, however the capacitor plates have a lot of surface area)

Now...this one is tough to get for some....think about it hard and re-read if you have too...but, it is the basis of all OU...and it must be understood!

The points above are possible because, the "magnetically potentialized charge pressure" (made that term up :P ) across the atoms of the secondary winding can only carry a very small amount of electrons (amperage)...but, they do carry an intense "Molecular Pressure" aka voltage, aka "Aether", because the magnetic core is polarized in a direction N-S, and,  the spiral around the core allows the magnetic field to sink into the wire (inductance) and transfer it's energy across the copper atoms to the directional flow of the copper's electrons. This energy transfer is because voltage is produced by the magnetic orientation of a gaseous flow of some particle.....Tesla believed it was an element above Hydrogen that is all pervasive and is so small it can flow through anything....aka. Aether. This Aetheric pressure we know as voltage acts like this through metals.....Most metals have an abundance of "free floating" electrons, meaning, the outer shell of almost all metals in their pure form have about 1/2 full outer valence shells...when coated in an insulator these charges cannot gain electrons to fill the shell (ex..oxidation), so instead they are all loosely attached and more willing to move. So when the directional orientation of "Aetheric" pressure is created inside the inductive wires of say insulated copper wires, the flow would like to take the fastest route, but it is forced to orientate in a thin spiral up and down the length of the coil in a long "pipe" if you will, one end is a high pressure and the other end of the coil is a low pressure  ....this is why thin wires create a higher pressure yet "thinner" stream and larger wire create a lower pressure "thicker" stream..."Amperage" or flow of electrons is because as the "Aether" flows through the wire during a short (connecting high/low pressure fronts) it creates a sort of "shock wave" in the direction of high pressure to low pressure, this supplies directional energy wave to the abundance of spinning electrons, which, move them in the same direction...(why Bedini says that amperage "follows" radiant...he calls voltage radiant energy)

So, now when you apply this knowledge you can see the capacitor like this....High pressure from the secondary is like a high pressure steam line....The capacitor is like a tank of water (capacitor contains already an atomic "sea" of electrons and "Aether" and a large surface area)....When the voltage potential  pressure is applied, to the tank of water, ALL the water in the tank takes on that pressure....Now, when you open a large valve (short condition determines speed at which it's discharge....a direct short is like opening a huge valve....shorting through say a large resistor such as a light bulb is a small valve) all the water will flow at the tiny supply pressure.

So, now maybe you can grasp how the capacitive hook up with a closed loop can create an electron flow in the copper loop....Also, this understanding is KEY to understanding how, as Stan put it, "Voltage performs work"...this also shows you why he used resistive...yet inductive Stainless...this allowed mainly "Aether" to flow, while the electrons are locked in position...See if the electrons were allowed to flow from the secondary into the water cap, that would create an increase of electrons to flow in the primary due to the increase in opposite core polarity...See, secondary flow direction, aka charge is opposite to the direction of the primary flow...so, if the electrons in the secondary flow, it adds to the overall speed of the magnetic flux in the "magnetic circuit" of the core...this would then pull more electrons from the primary (reason why more amp flow is recorded in the primary when a capacitor is added to the system). Instead he uses inductive, yet, resistive stainless to apply only the "Aetheric" voltage pressure to the plates of the water capacitor which would polarize the dielectric water molecule, then siphoning off the "Aetheric" charge through a separate circuit allows the "Aetheric" shock waves to drag along water's electrons. Then you'll realize that using light energy increases the charge on the proton and pushing out the electron orbit... making the water/whatever (photoelectric effect) more inclined to give up it's electrons instead of just giving off "Aetheric" discharge.

This is my most detailed description I have ever given of my understanding....I hope it helps, I hope it makes sense, and I hope I don't draw unwanted attention...   8)

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Re: (Bemf) aka back emf or Counter emf (CEMF)
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2009, 12:06:54 pm »
@HandyAndy
I like the video...

@ALL
Let me explain something I noticed when working with my ungrounded HV neon sign transformer. I noticed that directly shorting the leads with nothing attached produced a wispy purple arc that broke out in very fines stream(s)...arcing these streams to your skin would only hurt you if you allowed the stream to stay in one spot too long (it creates tiny burns)
However, when I attached my old-school .005uf silver-mica capacitor it was a different story all together. With only a slight increase in amperage through the primary the gap creates a very loud cracking and the shock will put you down (trust me  :D )...the name capacitor gives little info about it...but, back in Tesla's day they were called "condensers". That gives you more of idea of what happens. When you allow the two charges to interact through the dielectric without conducting they create an electro-magnetic attraction force that creates essentially a negative pressure which sucks in more charge/second. You should ask yourself how/why is the energy so much more powerful by adding this surface area in close proximity, yet not allowing them to conduct. That is a multiple part answer.

There is a little bit more charge/second because the magnetic energy sink is physically larger, because the capacitor and secondary is akin to a vacuum due to the opposite plates exerting an attraction force on one another, so the primary pulls some more amperage

The charge is moving faster upon discharge because the charge density is higher (thin HV secondaries can't carry much amperage, however the capacitor plates have a lot of surface area)

Now...this one is tough to get for some....think about it hard and re-read if you have too...but, it is the basis of all OU...and it must be understood!

The points above are possible because, the "magnetically potentialized charge pressure" (made that term up :P ) across the atoms of the secondary winding can only carry a very small amount of electrons (amperage)...but, they do carry an intense "Molecular Pressure" aka voltage, aka "Aether", because the magnetic core is polarized in a direction N-S, and,  the spiral around the core allows the magnetic field to sink into the wire (inductance) and transfer it's energy across the copper atoms to the directional flow of the copper's electrons. This energy transfer is because voltage is produced by the magnetic orientation of a gaseous flow of some particle.....Tesla believed it was an element above Hydrogen that is all pervasive and is so small it can flow through anything....aka. Aether. This Aetheric pressure we know as voltage acts like this through metals.....Most metals have an abundance of "free floating" electrons, meaning, the outer shell of almost all metals in their pure form have about 1/2 full outer valence shells...when coated in an insulator these charges cannot gain electrons to fill the shell (ex..oxidation), so instead they are all loosely attached and more willing to move. So when the directional orientation of "Aetheric" pressure is created inside the inductive wires of say insulated copper wires, the flow would like to take the fastest route, but it is forced to orientate in a thin spiral up and down the length of the coil in a long "pipe" if you will, one end is a high pressure and the other end of the coil is a low pressure  ....this is why thin wires create a higher pressure yet "thinner" stream and larger wire create a lower pressure "thicker" stream..."Amperage" or flow of electrons is because as the "Aether" flows through the wire during a short (connecting high/low pressure fronts) it creates a sort of "shock wave" in the direction of high pressure to low pressure, this supplies directional energy wave to the abundance of spinning electrons, which, move them in the same direction...(why Bedini says that amperage "follows" radiant...he calls voltage radiant energy)

So, now when you apply this knowledge you can see the capacitor like this....High pressure from the secondary is like a high pressure steam line....The capacitor is like a tank of water (capacitor contains already an atomic "sea" of electrons and "Aether" and a large surface area)....When the voltage potential  pressure is applied, to the tank of water, ALL the water in the tank takes on that pressure....Now, when you open a large valve (short condition determines speed at which it's discharge....a direct short is like opening a huge valve....shorting through say a large resistor such as a light bulb is a small valve) all the water will flow at the tiny supply pressure.

So, now maybe you can grasp how the capacitive hook up with a closed loop can create an electron flow in the copper loop....Also, this understanding is KEY to understanding how, as Stan put it, "Voltage performs work"...this also shows you why he used resistive...yet inductive Stainless...this allowed mainly "Aether" to flow, while the electrons are locked in position...See if the electrons were allowed to flow from the secondary into the water cap, that would create an increase of electrons to flow in the primary due to the increase in opposite core polarity...See, secondary flow direction, aka charge is opposite to the direction of the primary flow...so, if the electrons in the secondary flow, it adds to the overall speed of the magnetic flux in the "magnetic circuit" of the core...this would then pull more electrons from the primary (reason why more amp flow is recorded in the primary when a capacitor is added to the system). Instead he uses inductive, yet, resistive stainless to apply only the "Aetheric" voltage pressure to the plates of the water capacitor which would polarize the dielectric water molecule, then siphoning off the "Aetheric" charge through a separate circuit allows the "Aetheric" shock waves to drag along water's electrons. Then you'll realize that using light energy increases the charge on the proton and pushing out the electron orbit... making the water/whatever (photoelectric effect) more inclined to give up it's electrons instead of just giving off "Aetheric" discharge.

This is my most detailed description I have ever given of my understanding....I hope it helps, I hope it makes sense, and I hope I don't draw unwanted attention...   8)


Thank you for your explanation, Radian_1
Ver nice!

Br
Steve

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Re: (Bemf) aka back emf or Counter emf (CEMF)
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2009, 14:22:52 pm »
@Alan
Quote
haha this is the spark which killed people during the Tesla days.

No it's not....if you read Tesla's own accounts of the phenomena it is clear that is a much different thing indeed.
If you notice, this reaction happens AFTER the switch is closed in fact upon the re-opening.
Tesla describes something MUCH DIFFERENT...what he describes, happens on very large, very HV generators, and, it happens the second they close the circuit. He describes hair-like bluish corona, then gigantic arcs of lightning. These observations led to his experiments with disruptive discharge of HV capacitors and the further observation of stinging sensation while doing so...this led to his "Aether" theories.

I'm not trying to be a "know it all" but, I spent extensive hours reading, reading patents, reading Tesla's notes...etc....etc, and trust me this is not what Tesla was talking about.
know it all or not, keep posting :]
Do you remember in which tesla lecture I can find these account?
But when the switch closes to a huge inductive system, won't the abrupt and fast rising current produce the same counter emf that can be seen at the switch?

Is this the hairpin circuit?

I don't think this is free energy, because for one you can see the other light dim when connecting a second lamp. voltage doing work on charge always destroys the dipole, and dipoles are created on the wire by fast switching.
But is the dipole destroyed which is responsible for the pulses?
Frolov/avramenko didnt claim OU with their single wire transmission of energy.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2009, 14:57:07 pm by Alan »

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Re: (Bemf) aka back emf or Counter emf (CEMF)
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2009, 18:48:43 pm »
HI Alan,

Yes, that's the youtube video.  There's also a thread on energeticforum.com on the tesla hairpin circuit.  I don't mean to hijack this thread but this is a really easy device to build and explore what's going on.  Palsness also talked about the avremenko plug.  I also saw the light bulb lit underwater and someone put their hands in the water without ill effect.  It was not what one would typically expect.

You might notice how the bulb is brightest around 1/4 of the length of the copper rods.  If you look at Stan's prototype wfc you might also notice that his connections to the outer tubes are about 1/4 from the bottom not at the bottom or at the top.  Tesla talks about 1/4 wavelength and 1/3 wavelength depending on application.  The capacitors or condensers are doorkob 40kv .002 nf I think.  The circuit is self-oscillating.  Palsness said that this circuit won't work to break the water molecule.  It's still a good learning tool.  The hairpin spark doesn't burn paper easily but makes lots of tiny holes in the paper.

At the Waldorf MD presentation with this circuit Palsness lit a 100 watt bulb with this circuit and about 50 feet of 40 gauge wire.  I'm not sure if it was single wire transmission.  It wasn't so much a demonstration of OU as it was a demonstration of Tesla's RE or radiant energy.  Waiting for the video to show up on the web...


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Re: (Bemf) aka back emf or Counter emf (CEMF)
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2009, 20:17:57 pm »
@Alan
Quote
I think this applies to the circuit:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/15794853/Nikola-Tesla-On-Light-and-Other-High-Frequency-Phenomena
Yes all those circuits operate the same way as the demonstrated "Hairpin" circuit

Quote
Do you remember in which tesla lecture I can find these account?
I believe he mentions it in here
http://www.scribd.com/doc/337910/Nikola-Tesla-Colorado-Springs-Notes



Quote
But when the switch closes to a huge inductive system, won't the abrupt and fast rising current produce the same counter emf that can be seen at the switch?
Yes, there will be a large counter emf, but, the phenomena was not noticed at some inductive load...it was noticed on the larger high tension wires directly leaving the large Dynamos and at the switch (during closure not opening)....it has more to do with the "Tesla Switch" phenomena...if it's a polarizing of ambient Aether, or the Aetheric flow in the wire slamming into an atomic/electron wall idk...but, I do know that it's the second of closure, not the second of opening the circuit.

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Re: (Bemf) aka back emf or Counter emf (CEMF)
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2009, 22:57:42 pm »
@Alan
I think this applies to the circuit:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/15794853/Nikola-Tesla-On-Light-and-Other-High-Frequency-Phenomena

WOW!!!...I thank you for that....I read it after I made that post explaining what I understood to be happening, and, TESLA SAID ALMOST THE SAME THING :D

Quote
I will best call attention to this defect and indicate a fruitful line
of work, by comparing the electrical process with its mechanical analogue. The process may be illustrated
in this manner. Imagine a tank; with a wide opening at the bottom, which is kept closed by spring
pressure, but so that it snaps off sudden/y when the liquid in the tank has reached a certain height. Let
the fluid be supplied to the tank by means of a pipe feeding at a certain rate. When the critical height of
the liquid is reached, the spring gives way and the bottom of the tank drops out. Instantly the liquid falls
through the wide opening, and the spring, reasserting itself, closes the bottom again. The tank is now
filled, and after a certain time interval the same process is repeated. It is clear, that if the pipe feeds the
fluid quicker than the bottom outlet is capable of letting it pass through, the bottom will remain off and the
tank; will still overflow. If the rates of supply are exactly equal, then the bottom lid will remain partially
open and no vibration of the same and of the liquid column will generally occur, though it might, if started
by some means. But if the inlet pipe does not feed the fluid fast enough for the outlet, then there will be
always vibration. Again, in such case, each time the bottom flaps up or down, the spring and the liquid
column, if the pliability of the spring and the inertia of the moving parts are properly chosen, will perform
independent vibrations. In this analogue the fluid may be likened to electricity or electrical energy, the
tank to the condenser, the spring to the dielectric, and the pipe to the conductor through which electricity is
supplied to the condenser. To make this analogy quite complete it is necessary to make the assumption,
that the bottom, each time it gives way, is knocked violently against a non-elastic stop, this irnpact
involving some loss of energy; and that, besides, some dissipation of energy results due to frictional
losses. In the preceding analogue the liquid is supposed to be under a steady pressure. If the presence
of the fluid be assumed to vary rhythmically, this may be taken as corresponding to the case of an
alternating current. The process is then not quite as simple to consider, but the action is the same in
principle.

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Re: (Bemf) aka back emf or Counter emf (CEMF)
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2009, 10:54:26 am »
What would happen if a WFC was placed over the hairpin?
oh, wait
Quote
Palsness said that this circuit won't work to break the water molecule.
the form of energy is the same, why wouldnt it work? no equal and opposite stress?
how about a hairpin made of 2 concentric tubes and put water in between?


I read feynman lectures explaining poynting vector flow, very strange, the energy flow points from outside inwards on elements like resistors and capacitors, as if the energy enters from the surrounding. He also found it strange, but tried to fix it wth reason.

radiant
havent read your post yet, cant focus atm :]
Quote
I believe he mentions it in here
http://www.scribd.com/doc/337910/Nikola-Tesla-Colorado-Springs-Notes
I read some of it before and found it strange that all explanations regarding standing waves phenomena were cut out.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2009, 11:13:09 am by Alan »