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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dankie on April 15, 2009, 23:38:18 pm

Title: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 15, 2009, 23:38:18 pm
Its now clear to me that this is the right way the bifilar chokes for the VIC spools.

If each section has both red and green , there is only 2  layers of double insulation between each-choke so things will start shorting out @ 4.5 KV and beyond . So if this is meant to go to higher voltage it has to be wound this way or it will short out .

With the coils wrapped in sequential order , there is no such problem .

But if you look @ it the way I do , and see a mirror transformer that was used to tickle the vacuum , there is no difference whatsoever whether you wind both red and green in same bobbins or not, it will be the same mirror image , since the coupling facotr is probably insane already .

One has double power going through cell , one has no power going throught cell .

So in the end , this is a good coil for the dreamer and the realist .
Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 16, 2009, 11:40:08 am
so which of those two images is right now?
Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 16, 2009, 14:52:31 pm
so which of those two images is right now?

Both of them , they are the same

Im talking about the construction when you are making it . This sequential reb/green/red/green is the right one .

If each cavity is wound bifilar with both red and green wires , there will be dielectric breakdown of the enamelling .
Title: VIC Winding Woes
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 02, 2009, 06:47:21 am
 :(

Well I make about 900 feet into 1,200 before I broke one bifilar wire.  So question is should I solder it togther and continue on or unwind and start over?

Thoughts please.
BW
Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 02, 2009, 17:25:03 pm
burntwire:

wind slowly......and in all honesty wind by hand if your machine is not delicate enough.....i wound a 7.8kohm bifilar coil by hand and it was fine.....you may even wind it all the way with a machine with out any breaks only to find out that somehow the enamel was scraped and you nowe have a short.

FUN FUN FUN.

now about soldering it......that is completely up to you......im not sure of it's effects but you would have insulate that solder droplet.....but depending on the strength of the magnetic field produced by the coil i am not sure if the solder drop would TRULY screw things up.....i just always rewind rather then using bubble gum and bandades to fix things.
Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 02, 2009, 17:39:19 pm
Thanks for the reply.  The break was right where I crossed over from 1 winding to the next.  Machine is smooth enought I think I just got a little rough.  O well that's why we practice.
I'll post pic's this enving of the finished coil.
bw
Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 14:28:29 pm
Its now clear to me that this is the right way the bifilar chokes for the VIC spools.

If each section has both red and green , there is only 2  layers of double insulation between each-choke so things will start shorting out @ 4.5 KV and beyond . So if this is meant to go to higher voltage it has to be wound this way or it will short out .

With the coils wrapped in sequential order , there is no such problem .

But if you look @ it the way I do , and see a mirror transformer that was used to tickle the vacuum , there is no difference whatsoever whether you wind both red and green in same bobbins or not, it will be the same mirror image , since the coupling facotr is probably insane already .

One has double power going through cell , one has no power going throught cell .

So in the end , this is a good coil for the dreamer and the realist .
Do  you suggest the same for the secondary as I notice this is also a bifilar wrap in stan’s pics

Bw
Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 17:50:44 pm
Its now clear to me that this is the right way the bifilar chokes for the VIC spools.

If each section has both red and green , there is only 2  layers of double insulation between each-choke so things will start shorting out @ 4.5 KV and beyond . So if this is meant to go to higher voltage it has to be wound this way or it will short out .

With the coils wrapped in sequential order , there is no such problem .

But if you look @ it the way I do , and see a mirror transformer that was used to tickle the vacuum , there is no difference whatsoever whether you wind both red and green in same bobbins or not, it will be the same mirror image , since the coupling facotr is probably insane already .

One has double power going through cell , one has no power going throught cell .

So in the end , this is a good coil for the dreamer and the realist .
Do  you suggest the same for the secondary as I notice this is also a bifilar wrap in stan’s pics

Bw


For the 6-1 , the secondary is just regular wrapped .

I dont understand coil 10-4 to tell you the truth , it makes no sense to me ...
Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 19:23:07 pm
The copper wire of 10-4 seems to be secondary bifilar wrapped as in 8-10.
another hint to this is:

Quote
Resonant Charging Chokes Stages (56/62a xx 56/62n + SS56/62a xxx SS56/62n) of Figure (10- 
4) that are not only electrically connected in sequential order but likewise magnetically linked by
Inductance Coupling field (511/512a xxx 511/512n), as so pictorially illustrated in (580) of Figure
(6-1).
which are, when you look at 6-1, the inductance coupling fields of the chokes and secondary.
Think about this: how would you wind the coils if secondary pickup coil is bifilar wound like 8-10?

Really a mystery, no clear explanation at all.
Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 20:00:25 pm
The copper wire of 10-4 seems to be secondary bifilar wrapped as in 8-10.


what copper wire.....figure 10-4 says stainless steel.
Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 20:13:25 pm
The shaded coil is SS the not shaded is regular copper.  Or vice versa if you want.  One is copper and the other is SS,  That is for the internal windings ie chokes, the primary and seconday are both copper.

Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 20:23:53 pm
Secondary pickup coil is bifilar wound in this pic.

also compare the second pic (pulse from battery) to 10-4
Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 20:42:57 pm
The shaded coil is SS the not shaded is regular copper.  Or vice versa if you want.  One is copper and the other is SS,  That is for the internal windings ie chokes, the primary and seconday are both copper.


No, wait, in 10-4, copper (magnetic) points to shaded, non shaded is SS: signal 49 on SS would be like 10-1 to 10-3, so what is copper used for??

perhaps this is the truth:

Quote
The effect of the increased impedance is strikingly illustrated in the two experiments of Prof. Bjerknes when copper is deposited upon an iron wire, and next iron upon a copper wire.  Considerable thickness of copper deposit was required in the former experiment, but very little thickness of iron in the latter, as should be expected.

http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1892-12-21.htm

(sorry for the thread hijack :P )
Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 20:44:13 pm
Seems to me like both chokes are being fed the same signal from the secondary , only difference is their direction .

Reult will be the same than with a perfect bifilar thats only getting pulsed by one side . Choke 56 will induce the same exact current/voltage in choke 62 .

In this case both chokes are being pulsed ,so one induces the other and vice versa ... no big difference .

Alan , just saw this , will read up later .

I`m in class now , supposed to be listening .
Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 20:44:24 pm
The shaded coil is SS the not shaded is regular copper.  Or vice versa if you want.  One is copper and the other is SS,  That is for the internal windings ie chokes, the primary and seconday are both copper.



no where is this stated in the tech brief for figure 10-4 that the shaded is ss and teh white is copper.......and also it says to water gap....not to resonant charging chokes if that was the case....seeing that it does say to water gap proves this is the resonant charging chokes....and not the bifilar secondary configuration.

now figure 8-10 is a bifilar secondary.....but i rather not go there.......i am trying to understand the basics before adding more coils to the coils i already do not understand.
Title: Bifilar Secondary
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2009, 02:24:30 am

Ok I figured out the difference. The original reference I made was to figure10-4 the multi core vic.
Forget about that I'm going with 6-1 configuration.

Sorry for any confusion I figure after I get the simpler once work I'll move on to chapter 10

Burntwire
Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2009, 02:32:32 am
10-4 is made to go on an e core , you could experiment thats 4 sure ...
Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2009, 02:42:49 am
Maybe the upper coil has the crux-wfc connection with a diode ? Lets say the upper coil is isolated from the chokes and somehow theres a combination of this "efficient voltage" and non-voltage aka ""squeezing""

We are not specified anything about those secondaries "copper chokes" ...

Remember that Stan was a tester ... he tried every single coil shitz ...
Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 09, 2009, 18:36:22 pm
Ok , so the chokes were indeed wound opposing .

Randiant_1 has confirmed this .
Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 09, 2009, 21:56:27 pm
the winding direction isn't the same?
if so, in 8-3, all fields are induced with the same polarity, and the second choke current isn't towards the wfc, so opposing voltages on the wfc.
demartin observed that the pulses on both sides were of the same polarity in the exact 8-3 setup.
Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 09, 2009, 22:13:05 pm
the winding direction isn't the same?
if so, in 8-3, all fields are induced with the same polarity, and the second choke current isn't towards the wfc, so opposing voltages on the wfc.
demartin observed that the pulses on both sides were of the same polarity in the exact 8-3 setup.

What are you alking about ?

Brg this image here and explain better .
Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 09, 2009, 22:15:36 pm
What i am talking about?
read the new idea thread

wait i'll post a pic
Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 09, 2009, 22:21:19 pm
I am not the best at explaining things, so i understand ppl think I talk nonsense, but I do my best.

kinesis posted 2 pics which showed that both chokes create a current towards the wfc, while the voltages on both sides are both + or -, demartin confirmed this (he also edited the pics), he also said this is the only setup that gave him something of a resonant behaviour.

the pic in this post has the second choke counterwound like you said (did you say that at all, or did you mean something else?), now it has +/- voltage polarities over the cell instead of +/+.

This is exactly the same at the classical bifilar (see below): just imagine the 2nd choke wound along with the 1st (both toward N).
no exactly the same, there is no distributed capacitance between the 2, but there will be when wound as 6-1

Title: Re: How to wind a VIC coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 09, 2009, 22:27:30 pm
I'm gonna make a coil like this , I'll cut me a core and see for myself .

I think it works like a bifilar .