Ionizationx: a clean environment is a human right!

Stanley Meyer => Stanley Meyer => Gas changer, the final step => Topic started by: Steve on February 26, 2009, 10:52:17 am

Title: Stan and dislodging electrons with ledlight ( Photoelectric Effect)
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2009, 10:52:17 am
Hi,

Here an article about dislodging electrons with help of LEDS.



In 20th century physics two ideas stand out as being totally revolutionary: relativity and quantum theory. Although Einstein is best known for his theory of relativity, he also played a major role in developing quantum theory. And it was his contribution to quantum theory - explaining the photoelectric effect - which won Einstein his Nobel Prize in 1921.

The photoelectric effect is the name given to the observation that when light is shone onto a piece of metal, a small current flows through the metal. The light is giving its energy to electrons in the atoms of the metal and allowing them to move around, producing the current. However, not all colours of light affect metals in this way. No matter how bright a red light you have, it will not produce a current in a metal, but even a very dim blue light will result in a current flowing. The problem was that these results can't be explained if light is thought of as a wave. Waves can have any amount of energy you want - big waves have a lot of energy, small waves have very little. And if light is a wave, then the brightness of the light affects the amount of energy - the brighter the light, the bigger the wave, the more energy it has. The different colours of light are defined by the amount of energy they have. If all else is equal, blue light has more energy than red light with yellow light somewhere in between. But this means that if light is a wave, a dim blue light would have the same amount of energy as a very bright red light. And if this is the case, then why won't a bright red light produce a current in a piece of metal as well as a dim blue light? Einstein realised that the only way to explain the photoelectric effect was to say that instead of being a wave, as was generally accepted, light was actually made up of lots of small packets of energy called photons that behaved like particles. Einstein wasn't the first person to use the idea of photons, but he was the first to make it the starting point of an explanation rather than a convenient fiddle to explain away odd results.

With light as photons, Einstein showed that red light can't dislodge electrons because its individual photons don't have enough energy - the impacts are just not large enough to shift the electrons. However, blue light can dislodge electrons - each individual photon has more energy than the red photon. And photons of ultraviolet light, which have yet more energy, will give electrons enough energy to whizz away from the metal altogether. A good way to think of the photoelectric effect is like a full car park with lots of really bad drivers. There is a car parked in a space, and lots of other drivers want that space. To get it they can try knocking the parked car out of the way, but they can only manage to hit it one car at a time. A tiny red mini just won't have the energy to knock the parked car out of the parking space, but a big blue van will. And imagine hitting the parked car with a big ultraviolet lorry - the parked car is most likely going to move far enough to collide with something else. Returning to light and electrons, there is never really just one photon of light at a time. A bright light emits lots of photons, but it doesn't matter how bright a red light gets; red photons will still not be able to budge a single electron. This is like having a car park full of red minis each randomly hitting a parked car in turn - there will be a lot of dents but the parked car will remain where it is. However, even a dim blue light will shift some electrons - we know that even one blue van will be able to move the parked car.

Einstein's explanation of the photoelectric effect was just the start of an avalanche of discoveries that became quantum theory. In this theory, light is not just a particle and not just a wave: it can be one or the other, depending on how it is measured. And it was discovered later that even the electrons are not just particles but are waves too.

http://www.einsteinyear.org/facts/photoelectric_effect/

br
Steve
Title: Re: Stan and dislodging electrons with ledlight ( Photoelectric Effect)
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2010, 07:18:17 am
(reply corrected)
more information to compliment the above:

the photo electric effect ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoelectric_effect ) is the reason why tesla's invention worked, this tesla invention (image below) used to be featured on wikipedia's photoelectric effect page (now not used at all anymore) along with information with it. the electrons would be disloged by blue and UV "radiant energy" (now called light, shown in yellow in the image) and the metal plate would become positively charged.  the earth is a large electronsink and electrons from the earth would be attracted to the plate and thus the motor would work.


now. what about gases?
well i ask you to look up pages about ionisation, you will find light can trigger it, pulsed or constant is better? i dont know. led may go dimmer if allowed to be hotter. (reply 6 links the above two)

light reading:
http://www.stockeryale.com/i/leds/lit/app001.htm (Pulsed Operation of LED Illuminators - do note that the average power is the rated power of leds)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoionization
http://www.chemistryland.com/CHM130W/10-ModernAtom/Spectra/ModernAtom.html (image source)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PhotoelectricEffect%28Tesla%29.png (image source)

excerpt of removed text (after describing what tesla thought):
In practice, a polished insulated metal plate or other  conducting-body in radiant energy (e.g. sunlight) will gain a positive  charge as electrons are emitted by the plate. As the plate charges  positively, electrons form an electrostatic force on the plate (because  of surface emissions of the photoelectrons), and "drain" any  negatively charged capacitors. In his patent application, Tesla noted  that as the rays or radiation fall on the insulated conductor (which is  connected to a capacitor), the capacitor will indefinitely charge electrically.

have fun,
Charlie.

ps, steve, when i modify the message it seems to delete it unless i click the second Modify message button which does the text section only!
Title: Re: Stan and dislodging electrons with ledlight ( Photoelectric Effect)
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2010, 13:29:49 pm
Does not the photoelectric effect, in fact ionize the atoms through electron ejection? Please correct me if I misunderstood. You claim the text above outlining the photoelectric effect is not related to Meyer and then prove his statement true with your rebuttal? The response was perfect up to the point where the relation to Meyer comes to play. I fail to see the main point? Light is just electromagnetic energy at a certain voltage potential and frequency.
Title: Re: Stan and dislodging electrons with ledlight ( Photoelectric Effect)
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2010, 13:54:05 pm
I think the link with Meyer is the ionization part. Meyer describes 2 options to ionize his ambient air or whatever he wanted to ionize.

One was with high voltage and the otheone was with laser and metal. Not sure how much power his leds had to be to get the same results as with hv....


Steve

Ps
I will have a look at that forum issue Charlie.
Title: Re: Stan and dislodging electrons with ledlight ( Photoelectric Effect)
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2010, 21:44:32 pm
Does not the photoelectric effect,....

this is what i am pointing out and you did miss it: the photoelectric effect pertains to removing electrons (completely) from the surface - be it steel or whatever. ionization is making electrons shift to an orbit that is further away - when they go back light (even Xrays in some cases) is emitted, this is how flurescent lamps work.
Title: Re: Stan and dislodging electrons with ledlight ( Photoelectric Effect)
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2010, 23:01:17 pm
Ok, sorry for the confusion. Why does Stan often state that electrons are removed or ejected from the gases?
Title: Re: Stan and dislodging electrons with ledlight ( Photoelectric Effect)
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2010, 00:04:01 am
Ok, sorry for the confusion. Why does Stan often state that electrons are removed or ejected from the gases?


firstly i have to correct myself and possibly rewrite what i have written, which will perhaps make both of these the result of the same effect - i didnt pick up that gases get ionised while metals get charged. ionisation is when the electron leaves the nucleus, so you are right, and i was confused, because steve's explanation lacked info on incrimental steps, light emmission and only talked about metals rather than hydrogen, the tesla patent came to mind and i thought i needed to add stuff about hydrogen.

when the hydrogen electron recieves a specific amount of light energy (photoionization) and/or electrical energy (field ionization) to excite the electron it will incrementally go to higher orbits and if it recieves a high enough energy it will leave, according to a text book i have, this is 13.6eV (electron volts).

the oxygen atom can emit xrays, i think.



http://science.jrank.org/pages/3679/Ion-Ionization.html (terms)
Title: Re: Stan and dislodging electrons with ledlight ( Photoelectric Effect)
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2010, 01:12:08 am
Yes, it is confusing isn't it? I wonder if it's meant to be that way? lol! I do know they commercially manufacture UV spectrum lights that are used for creating ozone, I have also read of microwave ionizers that can  create ozone in adjacent rooms through walls. So, it would seem that a particular atom, such as oxygen, would have several resonant frequencies throughout  the entire electromagnetic spectrum including sound, ultrasound, radio, visible light, microwave, and so on. Harmonics perhaps?
Title: Re: Stan and dislodging electrons with ledlight ( Photoelectric Effect)
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 27, 2010, 01:43:28 am
Yes, it is confusing isn't it? I wonder if it's meant to be that way? lol! I do know they commercially manufacture UV spectrum lights that are used for creating ozone, ,,,,,,,

um ozone dont have much to do with meyer as far as i know.... plus ionised atoms tend to be sticky to non ionised atoms rather than to each other so i doubt ozone will form, and if you send a whole cloud of them to the engine there isnt any air to stick to as that has been ionised too. but the car might get positively charged :P

Cb
Title: Re: Stan and dislodging electrons with ledlight ( Photoelectric Effect)
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 27, 2010, 18:17:03 pm
My intention was to show that UV can be used to ionize oxygen. Ozone is a secondary reaction when the positive oxygen ion is released into ambient air full of O2. Being that O+ is highly reactive and will seek aggressively to fill the electron it had lost in the ionization, O+ will "stick" to an O2 molecule making it O3. In the case of relating to Stan Meyer, If the O+ is isolated from other molecules to react with, it will stay positive for a much longer duration or until it can fill the missing electron with something, anything, even dust. Also, if the hydrogen atoms are also positively charged and mixed with O+, they will not combine or associate for the fact that like charges repel.
Title: Re: Stan and dislodging electrons with ledlight ( Photoelectric Effect)
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 28, 2010, 01:08:01 am
My intention was to show that UV can be used to ionize oxygen. Ozone is a secondary reaction when the positive oxygen ion is released into ambient air full of O2.

trying to get ozone is not advisible for use in a vehicle  because its reactive with metals, but if you happen to have other ideas then go on - you can possibly use magnets to seperate the oxygen from the hydrogen where it may combine but you may need unionised oxygen (o2), as you said.

look under reactions in wikipedia,.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone#Reactions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone#Reactions)

Charlie.
Title: Re: Stan and dislodging electrons with ledlight ( Photoelectric Effect)
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 28, 2010, 12:27:24 pm
Guys


I think stan used % of ionization as low as 1% cause when a gas is ionized 1% it already conducts 90% of its maximum allowed theoretically.


I believe he used an electron emitter like a red hot filament and high pressure as to concentrate the ambient heat as to let it work for him helping the ionization. I believe he might have used 30 bar, cause this way the temperature get over 1000° The requirement for the ionization to be maintained.


He than used The filament probably coated with low working function metals, and a high voltage circulating circuit as to heat up the air even further.


Result when he injected this super heat air with the water he transfer the free collected and amplified heat and used it to explode the water.


I don't know if he ejected the electrons, but i guess is not much possible the way he said. Cause a big colombian force would exist...


The thing is that maybe he was creating some hydrogen during the injection...so he use to burned it too.


Like a plasma heater. He passes a current thru the plasma, by a yellow arc. The thing is that the current in a resonant tank is nothing more than the free electrons bouncing between the inductor and capacitor the grater the current the more  free electrons there are. If he short the inductor means that he impedes the electrons freed from the capacitor to come back to the capacitor. something like this if so. 
 
Probably this is the way he cracked water. I believe he oscillated the water and than transferred the energy of the coil to another coil impeding the electrons to go back to the water thus letting a high voltage on the capacitor that broke the water. The important is the participation of the ions of the water.
Title: Re: Stan and dislodging electrons with ledlight ( Photoelectric Effect)
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 28, 2010, 13:33:01 pm
How about some visual aids?
Title: Re: Stan and dislodging electrons with ledlight ( Photoelectric Effect)
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 03, 2011, 02:15:51 am
A thought:

The links and images of the "spectra of hydrogen" show wavelengths and the movement of electrons from outer orbits to inner orbits, stan meyers diagrams show the opposite diagram for moving electrons from inner orbits to outer ones, so might that affect the choice of LED to use?

I now see that at: http://www.chemistryland.com/CHM130W/10-ModernAtom/Spectra/ModernAtom.html (http://www.chemistryland.com/CHM130W/10-ModernAtom/Spectra/ModernAtom.html) , it shows hydrogen emits 4 colours of light, and those wavelengths are the ones some appear to have chosen for their LED's, perhaps a look at the same thing for oxygen might shed some clues to the wavelength of led stan chose for the gas processor.